Harley Davidson
Discussion
Ducati Retro - Scrambler
Triumph Retro - Bonneville, Thruxton.
BMW Retro - Nine T
Honda retro - CB1100.
Yamaha Retro - XSR 900, XSR 700
Harley Retro - ???
Based on the sound principle of don't knock it 'til you've tried it, I tried it. A V-Rod thing, but I can't say that I took to it. Brembo brakes, engine by Porsche, still weighed a ton. Never found it so easy to ground the pegs. Other Harleys don't handle either, but then they don't pretend to. But the V-Rod is claiming some sort of sports bike DNA, which frankly isn't there, and as for any Harley with a "Sportster" moniker, that's just taking the piss. If you want a big, soft cruiser/tourer thing, Harley do it as well as anyone. Their marketing is second to none, especially in the merchandising department. We all fall in to stereotypes to a degree, GS and Adventure bikes with go anywhere textiles, Superbikes with race replica leathers and helmets, street bikes with jeans, Gixxers with Rizla jackets and track suits, but Harley have got it pegged better that anyone else. Kudos to them.
However, if we're going to play dress up, we have to kind of match the image (don't we?). It's a long time ago now, in the 80's, but I was waiting outside a local bike dealer in Edinburgh, chatting to some other bikers, when this low, black and chrome Harley comes thundering up the hill. Black leathers - check. Patches, chains, studs - check. Matt black open face helmet -check. Mirrored aviator shades - check. Bandana - check. Two day stubble and bandito moustache - check. Mouth set with just the right amount of sneer - check. Blonde on the back with legs up to her armpits - check. Blonde with skin tight black leathers with 6" heels and knee boots - check, check, check, check, ooooohhhh!
Clint swings his Hog around (I'm sure that was his name), gives it a handful of revs and backs it into the kerb. Blondie steps off, she's 6 feet tall if she's an inch, simply stunning. Before we can scrape our tongues off the floor, her helmet comes off, and she does the shampoo model swish with her hair, and smiles at us. I swear we all felt an instant tightening in our jeans, or perhaps it was just me.
"Don't look at her, Clint will beat us all to a pulp" we were thinking, as we averted our gaze back to the Harley.
Then Clint switches off after a final blip of the throttle, and the angry Hog goes to sleep, engine ticking away as it cools. Clint then swings his leg over the saddle, sneers at us one more time and stands up to his full height of .....well I'd like to say 5 foot 3 inches, but perhaps I'm being generous.
I may have been the first to laugh, and not in my head either, but out loud, soon to be joined by the others. I know that we shouldn't have embarrassed the poor laddie, especially in front of his, ahem, lady friend, but it was too good to be true.
Of course, nowadays we wouldn't laugh (perhaps), we'd simply get our phones out and film the sorry sight and post it on YouTube.
Like I said, dress the part by all means, but live up to it at the very least.
Triumph Retro - Bonneville, Thruxton.
BMW Retro - Nine T
Honda retro - CB1100.
Yamaha Retro - XSR 900, XSR 700
Harley Retro - ???
Based on the sound principle of don't knock it 'til you've tried it, I tried it. A V-Rod thing, but I can't say that I took to it. Brembo brakes, engine by Porsche, still weighed a ton. Never found it so easy to ground the pegs. Other Harleys don't handle either, but then they don't pretend to. But the V-Rod is claiming some sort of sports bike DNA, which frankly isn't there, and as for any Harley with a "Sportster" moniker, that's just taking the piss. If you want a big, soft cruiser/tourer thing, Harley do it as well as anyone. Their marketing is second to none, especially in the merchandising department. We all fall in to stereotypes to a degree, GS and Adventure bikes with go anywhere textiles, Superbikes with race replica leathers and helmets, street bikes with jeans, Gixxers with Rizla jackets and track suits, but Harley have got it pegged better that anyone else. Kudos to them.
However, if we're going to play dress up, we have to kind of match the image (don't we?). It's a long time ago now, in the 80's, but I was waiting outside a local bike dealer in Edinburgh, chatting to some other bikers, when this low, black and chrome Harley comes thundering up the hill. Black leathers - check. Patches, chains, studs - check. Matt black open face helmet -check. Mirrored aviator shades - check. Bandana - check. Two day stubble and bandito moustache - check. Mouth set with just the right amount of sneer - check. Blonde on the back with legs up to her armpits - check. Blonde with skin tight black leathers with 6" heels and knee boots - check, check, check, check, ooooohhhh!
Clint swings his Hog around (I'm sure that was his name), gives it a handful of revs and backs it into the kerb. Blondie steps off, she's 6 feet tall if she's an inch, simply stunning. Before we can scrape our tongues off the floor, her helmet comes off, and she does the shampoo model swish with her hair, and smiles at us. I swear we all felt an instant tightening in our jeans, or perhaps it was just me.
"Don't look at her, Clint will beat us all to a pulp" we were thinking, as we averted our gaze back to the Harley.
Then Clint switches off after a final blip of the throttle, and the angry Hog goes to sleep, engine ticking away as it cools. Clint then swings his leg over the saddle, sneers at us one more time and stands up to his full height of .....well I'd like to say 5 foot 3 inches, but perhaps I'm being generous.
I may have been the first to laugh, and not in my head either, but out loud, soon to be joined by the others. I know that we shouldn't have embarrassed the poor laddie, especially in front of his, ahem, lady friend, but it was too good to be true.
Of course, nowadays we wouldn't laugh (perhaps), we'd simply get our phones out and film the sorry sight and post it on YouTube.
Like I said, dress the part by all means, but live up to it at the very least.
Is dressing up as a wannabe bike gang member any different to other biker stereotypes?
... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
Raygun said:
cat with a hat said:
Except the foundation for your opinion is baseless.
You attempted to pass judgement based on the fact you think its a "BMW". Pistonheads don't have Husqvarna listed as a manufacturer, so I selected BMW as the engine is loosely based on a BMW f800R.
Its unfortunate that you aren't a very open minded individual and seem to be so brand orientated
I'm not brand orientated, for years BMW made motorbikes that were boring and ugly and sounded sYou attempted to pass judgement based on the fact you think its a "BMW". Pistonheads don't have Husqvarna listed as a manufacturer, so I selected BMW as the engine is loosely based on a BMW f800R.
Its unfortunate that you aren't a very open minded individual and seem to be so brand orientated
t hence the comment made at a National Chopper Club show.You enjoy your bike there must be plenty of other straitlaced people with their BMW or Husqvarna who think along the same lines as you.
cat with a hat said:
Raygun said:
cat with a hat said:
Except the foundation for your opinion is baseless.
You attempted to pass judgement based on the fact you think its a "BMW". Pistonheads don't have Husqvarna listed as a manufacturer, so I selected BMW as the engine is loosely based on a BMW f800R.
Its unfortunate that you aren't a very open minded individual and seem to be so brand orientated
I'm not brand orientated, for years BMW made motorbikes that were boring and ugly and sounded sYou attempted to pass judgement based on the fact you think its a "BMW". Pistonheads don't have Husqvarna listed as a manufacturer, so I selected BMW as the engine is loosely based on a BMW f800R.
Its unfortunate that you aren't a very open minded individual and seem to be so brand orientated
t hence the comment made at a National Chopper Club show.You enjoy your bike there must be plenty of other straitlaced people with their BMW or Husqvarna who think along the same lines as you.
bogie said:
Is dressing up as a wannabe bike gang member any different to other biker stereotypes?
... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
See also the Buell story. HD wanted Buell to be an entry-level Harley, and not a sports bike, as that may lead purchasers away from the trad big twins.... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
btw The hard-core bikers I have known had a somewhat sneering attitude to modern Harleys - a pan head or shovel has a lot more cred.
bogie said:
Is dressing up as a wannabe bike gang member any different to other biker stereotypes?
... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
Yes of course it's different. Sportsbike riders at their most dedicated are largely function over form. Their choice of bikes and gear almost always reflects this (I don't deny there are outliers however).... its just that Harley-Davidson is a niche over here and fair game to the mainstream bike riders who may not understand the appeal...
In their US home market, Harley alone account for >50% of the big bike market, you are in the minority if you choose anything else...your buddies at work turn their nose up at you if you bought something other than a Harley....when you understand that mentality, you understand the HD marketing machine. They CANT change their bikes too much away from the traditional, otherwise their sales go down...
By contrast Harley Davidson owners are buying a brand and an image, presumably because they are not happy with their own. If it wasn't about image at the very least they wouldn't wear such questionable gear, or ride inferior equipment.
Now you could equally argue sportsbike owners are bit sad as well. A bit nerdy, and perhaps even pretending to be racers even though they're fat old blokes. But to my mind there is at least something admirable about the fact that regardless of pretenses, they are practicing and attempting improving a skillset which you have to work hard for, and which punishes you for disrespect. From what I have seen of the riding standards of events like "thunder in the glen" this is patently not the same for those HD rider style bikers.
By contrast HD riders are basically old men making horrible noises playing dress up.
Prof Prolapse said:
Yes of course it's different. Sportsbike riders at their most dedicated are largely function over form. Their choice of bikes and gear almost always reflects this (I don't deny there are outliers however).
By contrast Harley Davidson owners are buying a brand and an image, presumably because they are not happy with their own. If it wasn't about image at the very least they wouldn't wear such questionable gear, or ride inferior equipment.
Now you could equally argue sportsbike owners are bit sad as well. A bit nerdy, and perhaps even pretending to be racers even though they're fat old blokes. But to my mind there is at least something admirable about the fact that regardless of pretenses, they are practicing and attempting improving a skillset which you have to work hard for, and which punishes you for disrespect. From what I have seen of the riding standards of events like "thunder in the glen" this is patently not the same.
By contrast HD riders are basically old men making horrible noises playing dress up.
can I ask ...to form this opinion - By contrast Harley Davidson owners are buying a brand and an image, presumably because they are not happy with their own. If it wasn't about image at the very least they wouldn't wear such questionable gear, or ride inferior equipment.
Now you could equally argue sportsbike owners are bit sad as well. A bit nerdy, and perhaps even pretending to be racers even though they're fat old blokes. But to my mind there is at least something admirable about the fact that regardless of pretenses, they are practicing and attempting improving a skillset which you have to work hard for, and which punishes you for disrespect. From what I have seen of the riding standards of events like "thunder in the glen" this is patently not the same.
By contrast HD riders are basically old men making horrible noises playing dress up.
How many Harley riders do you know?
or as I previously stated is this an opinion inherited and formed through peer pressure amongst young sportsbike riders who have never ridden a harley and probably only ever seen 2 or 3 ridden about where they live in the majority of their lifetimes?
hedgefinder said:
can I ask ...to form this opinion -
How many Harley riders do you know?
or as I previously stated is this an opinion inherited and formed through peer pressure amongst young sportsbike riders who have never ridden a harley and probably only ever seen 2 or 3 ridden about where they live in the majority of their lifetimes?
Lots I think.How many Harley riders do you know?
or as I previously stated is this an opinion inherited and formed through peer pressure amongst young sportsbike riders who have never ridden a harley and probably only ever seen 2 or 3 ridden about where they live in the majority of their lifetimes?
One but he's more a relative. He has a 1996 bike he's had from new and it's done about 3,000 miles, he is exactly as I describe. Beyond that I've probably met hundreds over the years. I used to go the bulldog bash when I was a kid, have many friends who are part of a group/chapter/whatever "recognised" by the hells angels (who curiously don't ride HD just triumphs and Suzukis), and I've been stuck socialising with the buggers 3/4 times at "Thunder in the Glen" in Aviemore when I've had the rotten luck to get stuck there. I've stopped and chatted to them regularly on rides as well as I'm clearly a people person. Oh and on Thursday nights the local pub loads of them turn up, and the barman who I talk to has one. He said he wont' buy a BMW because he has "all the HD clothes now".
They're mostly insecure bulls
tters playing up to a role they've paid to join, and they are easily the worst riders of any group I've seen in the highlands at least (with notable exceptions). Neither of those attributes impress me.As for the bikes, I don't care. They look and sound like junk to me, but to each their own, it's not the bike's fault.
Prof Prolapse said:
Lots I think.
One but he's more a relative. He has a 1996 bike he's had from new and it's done about 3,000 miles, he is exactly as I describe. Beyond that I've probably met hundreds over the years. I used to go the bulldog bash when I was a kid, have many friends who are part of a group/chapter/whatever "recognised" by the hells angels (who curiously don't ride HD just triumphs and Suzukis), and I've been stuck socialising with the buggers 3/4 times at "Thunder in the Glen" in Aviemore when I've had the rotten luck to get stuck there. I've stopped and chatted to them regularly on rides as well as I'm clearly a people person. Oh and on Thursday nights the local pub loads of them turn up, and the barman who I talk to has one. He said he wont' buy a BMW because he has "all the HD clothes now".
They're mostly insecure bullstters playing up to a role they've paid to join, and they are easily the worst riders of any group I've seen in the highlands at least (with notable exceptions). Neither of those attributes impress me.
As for the bikes, I don't care. They look and sound like junk to me, but to each their own, it's not the bike's fault.
One but he's more a relative. He has a 1996 bike he's had from new and it's done about 3,000 miles, he is exactly as I describe. Beyond that I've probably met hundreds over the years. I used to go the bulldog bash when I was a kid, have many friends who are part of a group/chapter/whatever "recognised" by the hells angels (who curiously don't ride HD just triumphs and Suzukis), and I've been stuck socialising with the buggers 3/4 times at "Thunder in the Glen" in Aviemore when I've had the rotten luck to get stuck there. I've stopped and chatted to them regularly on rides as well as I'm clearly a people person. Oh and on Thursday nights the local pub loads of them turn up, and the barman who I talk to has one. He said he wont' buy a BMW because he has "all the HD clothes now".
They're mostly insecure bulls
tters playing up to a role they've paid to join, and they are easily the worst riders of any group I've seen in the highlands at least (with notable exceptions). Neither of those attributes impress me.As for the bikes, I don't care. They look and sound like junk to me, but to each their own, it's not the bike's fault.
fair enough, at least its a genuine opinion based on experience then - I can respect that.
But would argue that a blanket "they" about all riders of a particular make of bike being in this special "camp leather chap bare arse club" is a touch silly....they are bikes like any other if people choose to try to live to a stereo type than thats their own choice, but not everyone does it - the same as not every sportsbike rider is a dick who buys full race leathers and thinks he needs to wear his knee sliders down to prove how big his cock is........
hedgefinder said:
fair enough, at least its a genuine opinion based on experience then - I can respect that.
But would argue that a blanket "they" about all riders of a particular make of bike being in this special "camp leather chap bare arse club" is a touch silly....they are bikes like any other if people choose to try to live to a stereo type than thats their own choice, but not everyone does it - the same as not every sportsbike rider is a dick who buys full race leathers and thinks he needs to wear his knee sliders down to prove how big his cock is........
I agree, I do think grown men trying to pretend is generally quite sad, and it doesn't matter what you ride there are always examples. But sadly HD I feel sadly attracts that sort of rider a lot more than other brands. It's like how the w
kers from school with a chip on their shoulder always join the police. hedgefinder said:
fair enough, at least its a genuine opinion based on experience then - I can respect that.
But would argue that a blanket "they" about all riders of a particular make of bike being in this special "camp leather chap bare arse club" is a touch silly....they are bikes like any other if people choose to try to live to a stereo type than thats their own choice, but not everyone does it - the same as not every sportsbike rider is a dick who buys full race leathers and thinks he needs to wear his knee sliders down to prove how big his cock is........
I know quite a few people with them and they do generally seem to think other bikes are inferior. One is a friend of my wife's family (typical fat 50 something) that was determined to prove just how much better his proper bike was than my Jap crap in the garage. My Triumph Speed Triple jap crap.
Another is a guy I worked with for a while who keeps his bike in a cocoon in the garage and washes it every time it comes out, mainly because he's scared it'll rust. He also belongs to a chapter and rides around slowly making lots of noise with a patch on his back. He went to one run with the chapter in Ireland and had to pack open face and full face helmets because he needed the full face for the distance part then the open face for the ride outs with the club because "that's the look".
I think a lot of the problem with the Harley image is the fact that they tend to wear gear that would be perfect if they were outlaw biker gangs in the wild west but not so much if they're accountants from the midlands. The bikes don't exactly scream badass to me either as 50bhp is not a frightening number.
Having said all that I do have a big "adventure" bike, wear cordura and have hard luggage that looks like shiny fridges are stuck to the bike. The cordura was mainly because I got sick of taking up room in the panniers with waterproofs to go over my leathers.
I'm so glad I don't fit any of the Harley Stereotypes you all identify
Helmet - Full Face
Leathers - full
Patches - no
Bandana - no
Tassles - no
Assless chaps - no
Cut/waitcost - no
member of an MC - no
Gloves - short gauntlets, carbon protection
Boots - Alpinestars, no heel or spurs
Age - 31
Weight - 12st
Sexuality - straight
None of my riding gear is Harley Davidson branded, but I do own a couple of t-shirts and a Harley Parking only sign is on the garage wall next to a Danny Kent union flag. All my HD merch was bought for me a gift.
Helmet - Full Face
Leathers - full
Patches - no
Bandana - no
Tassles - no
Assless chaps - no
Cut/waitcost - no
member of an MC - no
Gloves - short gauntlets, carbon protection
Boots - Alpinestars, no heel or spurs
Age - 31
Weight - 12st
Sexuality - straight
None of my riding gear is Harley Davidson branded, but I do own a couple of t-shirts and a Harley Parking only sign is on the garage wall next to a Danny Kent union flag. All my HD merch was bought for me a gift.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff