TV licencing

Author
Discussion

TobyLerone

Original Poster:

1,128 posts

143 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
OK, so...

I don't have a television at home. I'm rarely at home as I work away, but every time I return, I am welcomed by a barrage of angry letters threatening court appearances.

I've never responded, so they are all addressed "To the legal occupier". Where do I legally stand?

I understand the payment is enforced by Captiva (a civilian private company), but correct me if I'm wrong here.

How can they get away with sending harassing letters, demanding to payment for a television, or entry in to my home to check that I'm not reviving a signal!?

Surely, the equivalent would be that if I started my own radio station, I would enforce my £145 / year subscription fee to any and all of those who my signal reached? And should you dare to disobey my angry letters, or deny my downright rude staff entry into your house to check you can't recieve my signal, I'll blindly send out very angry letters threatening fines of £1k, or prosecution!!

Surely this is surely not legally enforceable!?

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
They have no right of entry to your home to check for anything.

If you do not watch programs as they are broadcast you do not need a licence. Just let the idiots waste their money sending you threatening letters.

Stoofa

958 posts

167 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
As said - no right to entry if they just "turn up".
If however there is suspicion then it is up to them how to proceed. If they want to take you to court over it then you can put forward your analogy and I presume walk free with nothing further to pay.

Dogwatch

6,221 posts

221 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
The Beeb could have specified a viewing card slot for every Freeview box even if it wasn't required at the time. They deliberately chose not to, and now the political wind has changed with licence fees under pressure they are having to resort even more to bullying and threats.

TobyLerone

Original Poster:

1,128 posts

143 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
To me and my simple view on this (and possibly more than just a fraction closed minded and cynical)...

It's absolutely BONKERS!

I'm absolutely not letting anyone in my home, and they can absolutely shove their threats where the sun doesn't shine.

And even if there IS reasonable suspicion, surely it's a civil matter. It's not MY fault that they (whomever "they" might be) blindly broadcast an unencrypted signal for everyone to see, then automatically charge me for the privilege...

Boils my piss!

R1 Indy

4,381 posts

182 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
When i moved into my new build 3 months ago, there was a good few letters there before id even moved in!

As i rarely watch live tv, and as the builders where too tight to fit an aerial i haven't bothered with a licence, and can watch anything on catchup afterwards smile

I've got letter after letter stating an investigation is underway and a visit has been authorised, however yet to get a visit!
However being a new build, maybe they can't find me hehe

How much must all these letters cost them!!

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
R1 Indy said:
How much must all these letters cost them!!
How much has it cost the licence fee payers would be more accurate.

Jazzy Jefferson

728 posts

140 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
You do know, if you contact them and explain the situation, they'll stop sending you letters and wont send people round etc?

SVTRick

3,633 posts

194 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
Knock Knock - door opens..
I am here about your TV License sir...
Don't watch TV mate

Our records say you own a television....
Don't watch tv mate only use it for gaming.

But I think you do watch TV so can I come in to check...
No you cant

Well I think you watch TV so I want to check...
Your not coming in end of.

Well I suspect you watch TV so I want to check myself.
Listen mate the young lady at 23 down the road wont let me in her knickers
But I have no reason to suspect she has a penis
(Door slams)

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
Jazzy Jefferson said:
You do know, if you contact them and explain the situation, they'll stop sending you letters and wont send people round etc?
God forbid people take responsibility for their own choices and actions ...

TVL want one of three outcomes for each address
- buy a licence if you carry on licensable activities
- make a declaration you don't need a licence ( and if they do catch you out they can chuck the book at you )
- get people to incriminate themselves and pay for a licence, back licensing and fine / fees / etc.

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
TobyLerone said:
To me and my simple view on this (and possibly more than just a fraction closed minded and cynical)...

It's absolutely BONKERS!

I'm absolutely not letting anyone in my home, and they can absolutely shove their threats where the sun doesn't shine.

And even if there IS reasonable suspicion, surely it's a civil matter. It's not MY fault that they (whomever "they" might be) blindly broadcast an unencrypted signal for everyone to see, then automatically charge me for the privilege...

Boils my piss!
It's a criminal matter because the law says it is.

see comment ref taking some accountability for your own actions and choices ...


unfortunately it seems the anti faction in this discussion falls into three broad groups
- immature overgrown children
- deluded immature overgrown children seeking a cheat code for life AKA freewibblers on the Land
- ideologues who ( while not even noting the possibility of confirmation bias) feel the BBC represents some sort of pinko reds under the tv table plot ...

Hi

1,362 posts

177 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
There is a VERY simple way to stop the letters arriving if you actually read one of the leaflets. There is a very simple process for letting them know that you do not need a TV licence, it can be done online in about 1 minute, the instructions are on the leaflets that you will have had through the door. Once you have done it you won't get any letters for 2 years, after 2 years they will check if your situation is the same or if it has changed.

It couldn't be simpler. I don't see the point in having to go through all the stress of dealing with the people knocking at your door and arguing with them about whether or not they are allowed entry when it can all be avoided by just letting them know you don't need a TV licence.

People baffle me!

Ian Geary

4,462 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
TobyLerone said:
OK, so...

I don't have a television at home. I'm rarely at home as I work away, but every time I return, I am welcomed by a barrage of angry letters threatening court appearances.

I've never responded, so they are all addressed "To the legal occupier". Where do I legally stand?

I understand the payment is enforced by Captiva (a civilian private company), but correct me if I'm wrong here.

How can they get away with sending harassing letters, demanding to payment for a television, or entry in to my home to check that I'm not reviving a signal!?

Surely, the equivalent would be that if I started my own radio station, I would enforce my £145 / year subscription fee to any and all of those who my signal reached? And should you dare to disobey my angry letters, or deny my downright rude staff entry into your house to check you can't recieve my signal, I'll blindly send out very angry letters threatening fines of £1k, or prosecution!!

Surely this is surely not legally enforceable!?
It's a strange thing to get so upset about. The TV licencing system has been around for decades, and your legal position can surely be found easily enough on the internet .

The analogy presented doesn't fit - Parliament need to approve any such licencing arrangements, which they have done for TV licences.

Between the options of: completely ignoring them and continuing to get upset about their letters, or contacting them to explain the situation: I know which one I'd choose.

Ian



INWB

896 posts

106 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
We let them know that we don't watch live TV through the online portal (the letters say "If you own a TV" which is deceptive as you're in your rights to own a TV, just not watch live broadcasts).

We had a guy turn up from Crapita who demanded he inspect the house for TV equipment. I stated the law and told him to get off my property which he did.

We now get the odd letter (strangely one turned up yesterday) saying that we needed to tell them again (even though we only let them know a year ago) which I will do.

As watching Live TV is so common you can understand why they seem unable to grasp people that don't want to watch it like most of the zombies.

I will never pay the BBC another penny - their business model isn't fit for purpose. They are currently trying to persuade our (useless) government that a tax should be on anything capable of receiving live broadcast. If that happens I will gladly go to court. I shouldn't have to be forced to pay for TV designed largely for morons (see all saturday night TV for details).

TobyLerone

Original Poster:

1,128 posts

143 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
It's partly because I am lazy, and partly because I'm not in my house very frequently.

The letters don't keep me up at night, but it's just something that irked me when I returned home late last night, to a few letters from the enforcement agency.

1st world problems and all!

dxg

8,121 posts

259 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
Hi said:
There is a VERY simple way to stop the letters arriving if you actually read one of the leaflets. There is a very simple process for letting them know that you do not need a TV licence, it can be done online in about 1 minute, the instructions are on the leaflets that you will have had through the door. Once you have done it you won't get any letters for 2 years, after 2 years they will check if your situation is the same or if it has changed.

It couldn't be simpler. I don't see the point in having to go through all the stress of dealing with the people knocking at your door and arguing with them about whether or not they are allowed entry when it can all be avoided by just letting them know you don't need a TV licence.

People baffle me!
To which Capita state that, after such a declaration, they may still come round - just to check, all cosy like.

Hence, I do not give them the time of day in any form. I haven't watched TV for years.

And what I think terrifies the BBC is the growing number of people who simply don't watch TV. The current generation of kids certainly don't and (tin foil hat on) this also terrifies those that set the mainstream news agenda - because it's not being consumed by the rising generation. Oddly enough, Radio 4's media show was covering this a few days ago (sits back and waits for someone to point out my hypocrisy).

Sadly, because of this demographic shift in the consumption of media, I think mandatory licence of all houses irrespective of whether or not TV is watched will soon arrive. I just hope it comes with some breaking up the BBC, a dissolving of its political leanings, and a return to its educational/informing role rather that its current chasing of ratings.

I can but hope.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
TobyLerone said:
......Surely, the equivalent would be that if I started my own radio station, I would enforce my £145 / year subscription fee to any and all of those who my signal reached? And should you dare to disobey my angry letters, or deny my downright rude staff entry into your house to check you can't recieve my signal, I'll blindly send out very angry letters threatening fines of £1k, or prosecution!!......
How would you legally enforce your £145/year subscription? - Would your signal be encrypted to ensure only subscribed listeners can tune in to it?

If the signal was not encrypted (as the BBC's TV signal is not), would your radio station be backed by the Government, with the required associated legal legislation to enforce the subscription? (as the BBC's TV signal is).


The problem with the TV licensing system is, there is a presumption that every household automatically has a TV licence, therefore when they find an address without a licence an assumption is made that the occupiers must be watching BBC TV channels illegally (no other channels require the licence in order to watch them).

The TV licensing system is an antiquated one these days, but it's a nice little money earner for the Government and the BBC who get the money (or at least some of the money) they need in order to operate, without having to go to the effort of attracting advertisers.

The thing is, the whole "no commercial breaks" argument from the BBC is pretty much redundant these days because we're all used to having adverts on every other channel we watch.

Given the choice, I suspect most people would be happier to have the BBC operate like every other TV channel and have adverts, rather than being forced to pay for a licence for a channel that these days, has hardly anything on it worth watching! (especially when you consider that SKY TV make you pay even more than the BBC do every year, and you still have to put up with commercial breaks as well!).

I can appreciate the annoyance at all of the letters coming through the letter box, and their threatening nature as I've been there Myself years ago when I first bought My house.

Prior to moving in, I had gutted the house to a shell and only had a radio in the place whilst I did the work on it. I had loads of threatening letters come through the post from the TV licensing people so in the end I phoned them up, explained what was happening and invited them to come round and see for themselves. Their reply was: "That's fine, the letters are automatically generated when an address that previously had a licence no longer has one. I'll make a note on the system and you shouldn't get any more letters.".

Low and behold - No more letters!

Had someone turned up on My doorstep to check for themselves, I would have invited them in and told them to check where they liked!

If you've got nothing to hide, where's the problem in letting them satisfy themselves that you're telling the truth?

By getting aggravated by it all and getting aggressive about it should anyone turn up on your doorstep, you just end up looking more guilty!

(I'm actually amazed that we haven't had the usual PH-Hard man hero talk about attacking and killing anybody who dared to come to their home to check for a TV - Possibly using a frozen sausage as the weapon of choice!)

TBH, it's all a fuss over nothing really if you're not doing anything wrong!


Hi

1,362 posts

177 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
dxg said:
Hi said:
There is a VERY simple way to stop the letters arriving if you actually read one of the leaflets. There is a very simple process for letting them know that you do not need a TV licence, it can be done online in about 1 minute, the instructions are on the leaflets that you will have had through the door. Once you have done it you won't get any letters for 2 years, after 2 years they will check if your situation is the same or if it has changed.

It couldn't be simpler. I don't see the point in having to go through all the stress of dealing with the people knocking at your door and arguing with them about whether or not they are allowed entry when it can all be avoided by just letting them know you don't need a TV licence.

People baffle me!
To which Capita state that, after such a declaration, they may still come round - just to check, all cosy like.

Hence, I do not give them the time of day in any form. I haven't watched TV for years.
Whereas if you ignore the letters they will come round to check. If they have a list of people who are ignoring letters they are more likely to check those addresses first then bother checking someone who has the intelligence to follow the simple instructions on the leaflet.

In 4 years I've not had anyone come round to check.

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
4rephill said:
<snip>


The problem with the TV licensing system is, there is a presumption that every household automatically has a TV licence, therefore when they find an address without a licence an assumption is made that the occupiers must be watching BBC TV channels illegally (no other channels require the licence in order to watch them).

<snip>
This is incorrect , consequently your whole argument is void and fallacious. Reception of any live broadcast television in the Uk requires a valid TV licence ...

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 23rd April 2016
quotequote all
Jazzy Jefferson said:
You do know, if you contact them and explain the situation, they'll stop sending you letters and wont send people round etc?
It will stop the letters for a bit but then the cycle begins again.