Senna vs Brundle
Discussion
I don't rate Senna as highly as some on here.
He was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
He was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
Adam Ansel said:
I don't rate Senna as highly as some on here.
He was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
I was a mansell nut as many other brits were in the day, I couldn't stand Senna as he was the rival, but he was a racing genius, watching him race the streets of Monaco was totally inspiring, nobody else had an answer for him, the cars they drove in the eighties were far more of a handful than they are today, a shed load of power but without the gimmicks and trickery. Perhaps he wouldn't suit todays rules and regulations but he was doing what you were allowed to in those daysHe was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
Senna wasn't bad but notice how many of his races were won from pole. I don't remember him putting in epic drives where he started low down and carved his way through the field, like for instance Mansell at Hungary in 1989.
One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
Evangelion said:
Senna wasn't bad but notice how many of his races were won from pole. I don't remember him putting in epic drives where he started low down and carved his way through the field, like for instance Mansell at Hungary in 1989.
One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
That was the name of the game back in the 80's and early 90's. Qualify front row and reliability withstanding you probably finish on the podium, overtaking did happen but not as much as many would have you believe it was bloomin hard to make a car work in the hot dirty air coming off the back of a car with big wings and fat tyres.One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
Senna himself didn't rank his 1993 win at Donington as his best because he always felt that the car played too big a part in his superiority on that day.
I too always had reservations about Senna. I felt that he never drove with any reserve and that as a result, he was a danger to himself and others - which sadly proved his undoing.
The video looks good and I hope to watch it at some time.
I too always had reservations about Senna. I felt that he never drove with any reserve and that as a result, he was a danger to himself and others - which sadly proved his undoing.
The video looks good and I hope to watch it at some time.
Eric Mc said:
I don't particularly want to open up this debate again. It's been done to death many times on PH.
I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
I think you're right, Eric. That was probably part of the appeal in his driving though.I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
IanMorewood said:
Evangelion said:
Senna wasn't bad but notice how many of his races were won from pole. I don't remember him putting in epic drives where he started low down and carved his way through the field, like for instance Mansell at Hungary in 1989.
One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
That was the name of the game back in the 80's and early 90's. Qualify front row and reliability withstanding you probably finish on the podium, overtaking did happen but not as much as many would have you believe it was bloomin hard to make a car work in the hot dirty air coming off the back of a car with big wings and fat tyres.One exception was Donington in 93 when he overtook everybody on the first lap on a soaking wet track. Now that was a drive.
1988 Brazilian GP - charges through the field but later disqualified https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-X9qajKc&in...
1988 Japanese GP - stalls his car at the start and charges through the field (overtakes Prost) and not a bad way to win your first WDC
The other thing is Senna was so damn quick and as we all know his raison d'etre. Very, very few drivers would have pulled the feat of sticking a mid-80s Lotus on pole and even gone on to win the race as he did in Portugal and Spa in 1985 and at the European GP that same year he was on pole at Brands but went backwards in the race because he 'out drove' and 'outqualified' the car.
Eric Mc said:
I don't particularly want to open up this debate again. It's been done to death many times on PH.
I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
Isn't that what a good F1 driver is supposed to do? Dance that fine line between keeping it on the black stuff or going off. Then once comfortably in the lead nurse the car home.I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
Tamburello was one of the easiest corners in F1, Even though it was a bend it could be taken flat out. Something bust on the Williams that speared him into the wall on the outside of the bend.
If it was a hard and fast bend, wouldnt you think more drivers would have had an off there? Previous to Senna the only major crash there I can recall was Berger's in 1989.
EagleMoto4-2 said:
Isn't that what a good F1 driver is supposed to do? Dance that fine line between keeping it on the black stuff or going off. Then once comfortably in the lead nurse the car home.
Tamburello was one of the easiest corners in F1, Even though it was a bend it could be taken flat out. Something bust on the Williams that speared him into the wall on the outside of the bend.
If it was a hard and fast bend, wouldnt you think more drivers would have had an off there? Previous to Senna the only major crash there I can recall was Berger's in 1989.
It's a very, very fine line: driving to the limit and being reckless. IMO I would probably put Gilles Villenueve and most definitely Stefan Bellof as reckless drivers. Tamburello was one of the easiest corners in F1, Even though it was a bend it could be taken flat out. Something bust on the Williams that speared him into the wall on the outside of the bend.
If it was a hard and fast bend, wouldnt you think more drivers would have had an off there? Previous to Senna the only major crash there I can recall was Berger's in 1989.
With Senna his competitive spirit drove him to go beyond limits eg. rivalry with Prost, the conviction that Benetton was cheating.
100% in agreement with this.
Bellof and Villeneuve drove over the limits constantly. Senna very often did as well - but he also applied a cold intelligence to what he was doing which the other too lacked, I think. He sometimes expected way too much of himself. As Sid Watkins said to him, there were times when he would have been better off going fishing.
Bellof and Villeneuve drove over the limits constantly. Senna very often did as well - but he also applied a cold intelligence to what he was doing which the other too lacked, I think. He sometimes expected way too much of himself. As Sid Watkins said to him, there were times when he would have been better off going fishing.
EagleMoto4-2 said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't particularly want to open up this debate again. It's been done to death many times on PH.
I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
Isn't that what a good F1 driver is supposed to do? Dance that fine line between keeping it on the black stuff or going off. Then once comfortably in the lead nurse the car home.I do think he often overdrove cars. He always pushed to the limit and very often went beyond that limit. I think that was a contributory factor in the accident.
Tamburello was one of the easiest corners in F1, Even though it was a bend it could be taken flat out. Something bust on the Williams that speared him into the wall on the outside of the bend.
If it was a hard and fast bend, wouldnt you think more drivers would have had an off there? Previous to Senna the only major crash there I can recall was Berger's in 1989.
Piquet went off there too because of car failure, same as Berger's accident. Mechanical failure.
If it has been 'done to death' how can people still not grasp that a racing driver of World Champion calibre (x3) does not 'forget' how to go around a corner he is familiar with, bearing in mind that it is 'flat' out normally? The tyres were not cold either.
Of course Senna took risks, but in the instance of his death he was not taking any risks.
Adam Ansel said:
I don't rate Senna as highly as some on here.
He was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
So who do you hold in high esteem? Who do you rate?He was a driving thug who would be doing endless drive throughs today.
He scored points in the best machines but he set up for qualifying, which is reflected in the results.
I was a keen F1 follower before Senna's arrival. Before his death he was never rated with the same reverence as he is today.
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