Discussion
...we work ever harder to fund a lifestyle which is really about little more than consumption and monotony, or progression towards some ever distant goal of not having to work to do the things we really want to do?
Does anyone else feel like they are working to work - to fund the house, car, meals out, occasional holidays and the like which make the act of going to work possible or bearable? Just seems that when I was travelling and had little money and a few low paying jobs, I managed to do more of the stuff which matters, whereas the 9-5 appears to be funding 'nice' things, which in 10 years time will be forgotten.
Does anyone else feel like they are working to work - to fund the house, car, meals out, occasional holidays and the like which make the act of going to work possible or bearable? Just seems that when I was travelling and had little money and a few low paying jobs, I managed to do more of the stuff which matters, whereas the 9-5 appears to be funding 'nice' things, which in 10 years time will be forgotten.
I will - just got a few things to pay for first and then I'll be free again. But this wasnt supposed to be about me really. It was more conceptual.
Having read the thread about going for less money it seems that other people have the same ideas about what is important. Money, career ladder, meetings.... its not exactly 'Choosing Life' is it.
Having read the thread about going for less money it seems that other people have the same ideas about what is important. Money, career ladder, meetings.... its not exactly 'Choosing Life' is it.
swerni said:
You have to realise your drivers change over time.
What was important to me 25 years ago is different to 15 years ago which again is different to now.
Try and make your job work for you. 10 years ago I was diagnosed with cancer, it made me realise that we live in a huge world of which, most people will see very little and that I wanted to see as much as I could. 7 years ago I changed my role from a UK based one to EMEA and have traveled the world ever since. Some of the travel is dull, sometimes you don't get to see much, but other times it's epic.
The only thing you take to your grave is the memories of the things you have done, whether that be driving fast cars, traveling the word or bringing up a family.
Work out what makes you happy right now and work towards it!
I'd love to travel and drive a really fast car. However, i've put all of those selfish wants out of way to make sure i see my kids every day.What was important to me 25 years ago is different to 15 years ago which again is different to now.
Try and make your job work for you. 10 years ago I was diagnosed with cancer, it made me realise that we live in a huge world of which, most people will see very little and that I wanted to see as much as I could. 7 years ago I changed my role from a UK based one to EMEA and have traveled the world ever since. Some of the travel is dull, sometimes you don't get to see much, but other times it's epic.
The only thing you take to your grave is the memories of the things you have done, whether that be driving fast cars, traveling the word or bringing up a family.
Work out what makes you happy right now and work towards it!
Not every single divorced parent can do that.
Condi said:
...we work ever harder to fund a lifestyle which is really about little more than consumption and monotony, or progression towards some ever distant goal of not having to work to do the things we really want to do?
Does anyone else feel like they are working to work - to fund the house, car, meals out, occasional holidays and the like which make the act of going to work possible or bearable? Just seems that when I was travelling and had little money and a few low paying jobs, I managed to do more of the stuff which matters, whereas the 9-5 appears to be funding 'nice' things, which in 10 years time will be forgotten.
Look on the bright side. It's not that long ago that the notion of having meals out, going on holidays and the like would've been an unattainable dream to the overwhelming majority of the population, as would the notion of paid holiday, retirement, even a full day off per week, let alone two!Does anyone else feel like they are working to work - to fund the house, car, meals out, occasional holidays and the like which make the act of going to work possible or bearable? Just seems that when I was travelling and had little money and a few low paying jobs, I managed to do more of the stuff which matters, whereas the 9-5 appears to be funding 'nice' things, which in 10 years time will be forgotten.
Yes, I'm looking forward with yearning to the day when I'll be able to retire, but at least I'll be able to do so, which only about 3 or maybe 4 generations before me have really been able to do.
Personally, I think a positive development would be the introduction of 100 year mortgages, though. This would allow multiple generations of the same family to buy a huge place together, where each generation gets their own private space, but they can also stay together as a family and work as such - grandparents helping out with kids more, middle generation helping their parents in retirement etc. I think they do something like this in Austria...
Kermit power said:
Personally, I think a positive development would be the introduction of 100 year mortgages, though. This would allow multiple generations of the same family to buy a huge place together, where each generation gets their own private space, but they can also stay together as a family and work as such - grandparents helping out with kids more, middle generation helping their parents in retirement etc. I think they do something like this in Austria...
There was talk of this in Japan as well iirc, however with inheritance tax the way it is in this country, when the parent passes away, the offspring would have to sell up as it's too expensive.the other thing is that for most the idea of staying living with the parents is abhorrent, so I doubt there'd be much traction there either.
In some ways it'd be an advantage, but I wouldn't want to do it......
Wyvern971 said:
There was talk of this in Japan as well iirc, however with inheritance tax the way it is in this country, when the parent passes away, the offspring would have to sell up as it's too expensive.
That's easily handled by shared ownership, I would've thought? Elder generation passes their share onto the younger at least 7 years before any expectation of popping their clogs.Wyvern971 said:
the other thing is that for most the idea of staying living with the parents is abhorrent, so I doubt there'd be much traction there either.
Yes, sharing the same small house would be horrific, but with multiple generations able to chip into the cost of the property over time, I'd see it more like living in the same street with a shared communal hall for when you did all want to be together.Kids moving away from their parents is another thing which has really only happened in the last handful of generations, and looking at the number of today's "kids" still living with their parents into their thirties because they can't raise a deposit to buy, whether or not people actually like the idea is fast becoming academic.
My kids will be off to Uni in a few years, so I'm buying memories now with holidays and days out that appeal to teenagers without having to drag them out of the house, not cheap. I know that when they have left it'll not be the same so those memories are going to be priceless to me (and the wife) so its worth the extra effort. I can slow down when they are sorted and we get our second honeymoom period.
It's a very easy cycle to fall into and a worthy one of waking up to.
Consumerism/lifestyle is sold to us from birth by advertising, conformity and, often, by parents who often value the acquiring of material things.
"Bettering yourself" has been interpreted by my parents as acquiring. It's certainly not a criticism of them, it comes from the fact they both came from very little and my dad in particular was a war era child so saw the re-build of possessions as something very much valued. In their case, they didn't have as many travel or portability options in terms of technology, they were from an era of a generation immediately prior to them being very much in their classes and a working class working for an upper class. And the upper class acquired whilst the working class lived to work. I don't blame them, therefore, for their viewpoint but I had a wake up call when I realised these "values" had been instilled in me and I was in that treadmill of climbing greasy poles to acquire more s
t I didn't really need.
I had a big remap of my life at that point and yet still I find myself drawn back into that little wheel and it takes continued little slaps around the face to pull myself away from it. I'm not always successful in doing so, and I have a penchant for some of the finer things in life that mean I will probably never be capable of doing so entirely. However, I am at least more content that I recognise when I am falling into the trap and do something about it.
There are various videos on Facebook every so often that are nice reminders of this stupid cycle we have bought into, and of course the famous clip from Fight Club.
Recognising it is one thing. Doing something about it is another. And expect people to treat you like a weird smelly outcast, because its not conformist and folk don't often appreciate someone who isn't walking the same direction as everyone else.
Consumerism/lifestyle is sold to us from birth by advertising, conformity and, often, by parents who often value the acquiring of material things.
"Bettering yourself" has been interpreted by my parents as acquiring. It's certainly not a criticism of them, it comes from the fact they both came from very little and my dad in particular was a war era child so saw the re-build of possessions as something very much valued. In their case, they didn't have as many travel or portability options in terms of technology, they were from an era of a generation immediately prior to them being very much in their classes and a working class working for an upper class. And the upper class acquired whilst the working class lived to work. I don't blame them, therefore, for their viewpoint but I had a wake up call when I realised these "values" had been instilled in me and I was in that treadmill of climbing greasy poles to acquire more s
t I didn't really need. I had a big remap of my life at that point and yet still I find myself drawn back into that little wheel and it takes continued little slaps around the face to pull myself away from it. I'm not always successful in doing so, and I have a penchant for some of the finer things in life that mean I will probably never be capable of doing so entirely. However, I am at least more content that I recognise when I am falling into the trap and do something about it.
There are various videos on Facebook every so often that are nice reminders of this stupid cycle we have bought into, and of course the famous clip from Fight Club.
Recognising it is one thing. Doing something about it is another. And expect people to treat you like a weird smelly outcast, because its not conformist and folk don't often appreciate someone who isn't walking the same direction as everyone else.
I'm in my mid 40's and enjoy experiences more than things. I totally agree with the OP. It is fruitless. All this bragging rights on you has the biggest and most toys is shallow especially as so many I meet are so desperately unhappy (aside from
Some years ago and with kids growing up without dad being around that much due to long hours and stress I decided to change things. So I quit my job. Walked out and didn't go back. I then didn't sleep for 6 months wondering how I was going to support the family that was now seeing me spiral into a depressed lump.
Anyway I got going as a little one man band and for a few years had a lifestyle business.
But I realised that it couldn't last because technology was changing and the recession was in full swing and people weren't buying like they used to. However I have always been able to read markets and I knew/ was confident enough to see where my market was heading. The kids were now that bit older so priorities were changing. We started looking at the end of the decade thinking "We could go off travelling for 6 months of the year by then" So my wife and I sat down. We wrote a business plan that would mean years 1-3 growing a new business then the 4th selling it. It went according to plan and we sold last year.
I now have three years where I intend to work part time and start another couple of businesses that can be run from anywhere in the world. I'm not rich or poor but, apart from a few worries about the new businesses, I am at the most content I have ever been.
Hope this gives you some confidence that other ways exist.
Some years ago and with kids growing up without dad being around that much due to long hours and stress I decided to change things. So I quit my job. Walked out and didn't go back. I then didn't sleep for 6 months wondering how I was going to support the family that was now seeing me spiral into a depressed lump.
Anyway I got going as a little one man band and for a few years had a lifestyle business.
But I realised that it couldn't last because technology was changing and the recession was in full swing and people weren't buying like they used to. However I have always been able to read markets and I knew/ was confident enough to see where my market was heading. The kids were now that bit older so priorities were changing. We started looking at the end of the decade thinking "We could go off travelling for 6 months of the year by then" So my wife and I sat down. We wrote a business plan that would mean years 1-3 growing a new business then the 4th selling it. It went according to plan and we sold last year.
I now have three years where I intend to work part time and start another couple of businesses that can be run from anywhere in the world. I'm not rich or poor but, apart from a few worries about the new businesses, I am at the most content I have ever been.
Hope this gives you some confidence that other ways exist.
Shnozz said:
Sounds ideal to me INWB. Funny old world ain't it, as I would guess many more would aspire to the Wolf of Wall Street type with a bulging wallet even at the expense of other folk, let alone by legit methods.
The problem with these sorts, apart from how utterly shallow working so you can buy a drawer full of expensive watches etc, is that they usually don't treat others that well. Many I find are selfish and treat staff/ contractors like dirt. I try to treat people as I would like to be treated. The other issue I see is how burdened these people are without realising it. For example - my wife became critically ill when we were in Mexico. As a result the insurance company relocated me and the kids from a AirBnB place to a swanky hotel where all the other swanky hotels are, miles from normal mexican life. It was so soul less and reminded me of my business days - but I could have been anywhere. All these wealthy people were coming and going with huge amounts of luggage and stressing about this and that. Many were on holiday and yet they couldn't move without a limo and would be unlikely ever to experience real mexico (five peso fish taco to die for).
That is why my favourite possession is my 28ltr rucksack rather than my 996. I can go for a weekend or six months just with that. It is so enjoyable. It is the little things that make the difference.
INWB said:
The problem with these sorts, apart from how utterly shallow working so you can buy a drawer full of expensive watches etc, is that they usually don't treat others that well. Many I find are selfish and treat staff/ contractors like dirt. I try to treat people as I would like to be treated.
The other issue I see is how burdened these people are without realising it. For example - my wife became critically ill when we were in Mexico. As a result the insurance company relocated me and the kids from a AirBnB place to a swanky hotel where all the other swanky hotels are, miles from normal mexican life. It was so soul less and reminded me of my business days - but I could have been anywhere. All these wealthy people were coming and going with huge amounts of luggage and stressing about this and that. Many were on holiday and yet they couldn't move without a limo and would be unlikely ever to experience real mexico (five peso fish taco to die for).
That is why my favourite possession is my 28ltr rucksack rather than my 996. I can go for a weekend or six months just with that. It is so enjoyable. It is the little things that make the difference.
I find it's kids that get in the way of that sort of thing! The other issue I see is how burdened these people are without realising it. For example - my wife became critically ill when we were in Mexico. As a result the insurance company relocated me and the kids from a AirBnB place to a swanky hotel where all the other swanky hotels are, miles from normal mexican life. It was so soul less and reminded me of my business days - but I could have been anywhere. All these wealthy people were coming and going with huge amounts of luggage and stressing about this and that. Many were on holiday and yet they couldn't move without a limo and would be unlikely ever to experience real mexico (five peso fish taco to die for).
That is why my favourite possession is my 28ltr rucksack rather than my 996. I can go for a weekend or six months just with that. It is so enjoyable. It is the little things that make the difference.
Yes, my mountain bike cost me £3k, but without a wife and kids to keep happy, I'd be as happy as a pig in s
t to ride it every Saturday & Sunday and put it at the heart of all my holidays too, so it's probably one of the most cost effective things I could ever buy, given that I'll run it for the next 10 years.Sadly, the rest of the family aren't quite so enthusiastic!!
MikeGoodwin said:
Yes, why else would i work?
If I was happy living in a council house Id go live in a council house and sponge, but I dont because I want the option to drive a decent car and live in a detached house.
Points mean Prizes
There is a middle ground though no? If I was happy living in a council house Id go live in a council house and sponge, but I dont because I want the option to drive a decent car and live in a detached house.
Points mean Prizes
In my case it was working for others/long hours/unenjoyable job etc etc to have more bedrooms than were needed, more trinkets than were needed more "stuff". 5 watches. 15 pairs of shades. Wardrobe that was bigger than a woman's. Multiple cars. Just "stuff". I acquired lots of stuff.
I don't profess that I want to live like swampy or in a tower block, but equally I realised I was exchanging lots of time in exchange for either possessions I don't need or for niceties that were only done because of a sense of entitlement or desire because I was somehow exchanging my hours for them. Even the daily routine of half a dozen Starbucks and a nice meal out a few times a week because I needed to somehow treat myself for what I was enduring. Only when I sat back and looked and weighed it up did I extract the things that valued (whether that be the detached house or the car, or the nice meals or whatever it is one values) and then realise the rest were bulls
t that somehow softened the blow, that I could identify the things of value.We all have a finite pot of cash that we allocate to what it is we desire. We all have a finite amount of time to accrue that cash.
What I found was that I wasn't clear on what I was exchanging for what. Instead I was just on this merrygoround of exchanging time for things because that's what was programmed.
Shnozz said:
There is a middle ground though no?
In my case it was working for others/long hours/unenjoyable job etc etc to have more bedrooms than were needed, more trinkets than were needed more "stuff". 5 watches. 15 pairs of shades. Wardrobe that was bigger than a woman's. Multiple cars. Just "stuff". I acquired lots of stuff.
I don't profess that I want to live like swampy or in a tower block, but equally I realised I was exchanging lots of time in exchange for either possessions I don't need or for niceties that were only done because of a sense of entitlement or desire because I was somehow exchanging my hours for them. Even the daily routine of half a dozen Starbucks and a nice meal out a few times a week because I needed to somehow treat myself for what I was enduring. Only when I sat back and looked and weighed it up did I extract the things that valued (whether that be the detached house or the car, or the nice meals or whatever it is one values) and then realise the rest were bullst that somehow softened the blow, that I could identify the things of value.
We all have a finite pot of cash that we allocate to what it is we desire. We all have a finite amount of time to accrue that cash.
What I found was that I wasn't clear on what I was exchanging for what. Instead I was just on this merrygoround of exchanging time for things because that's what was programmed.
Yes there is actually. Ive learned not to want as much over the last 2 years and I am a lot happier now. I know there will be a fine line where life becomes 'not worth it'. I want to be able to enjoy my life, unfortunately I need a bit extra money to be comfy. In my case it was working for others/long hours/unenjoyable job etc etc to have more bedrooms than were needed, more trinkets than were needed more "stuff". 5 watches. 15 pairs of shades. Wardrobe that was bigger than a woman's. Multiple cars. Just "stuff". I acquired lots of stuff.
I don't profess that I want to live like swampy or in a tower block, but equally I realised I was exchanging lots of time in exchange for either possessions I don't need or for niceties that were only done because of a sense of entitlement or desire because I was somehow exchanging my hours for them. Even the daily routine of half a dozen Starbucks and a nice meal out a few times a week because I needed to somehow treat myself for what I was enduring. Only when I sat back and looked and weighed it up did I extract the things that valued (whether that be the detached house or the car, or the nice meals or whatever it is one values) and then realise the rest were bulls
t that somehow softened the blow, that I could identify the things of value.We all have a finite pot of cash that we allocate to what it is we desire. We all have a finite amount of time to accrue that cash.
What I found was that I wasn't clear on what I was exchanging for what. Instead I was just on this merrygoround of exchanging time for things because that's what was programmed.
MikeGoodwin said:
Yes there is actually. Ive learned not to want as much over the last 2 years and I am a lot happier now. I know there will be a fine line where life becomes 'not worth it'. I want to be able to enjoy my life, unfortunately I need a bit extra money to be comfy.
Why do you want comfy? Isnt there excitement to be found, stupid stuff to be done, and people to meet? I suspect that as some people have already alluded to the answer to this thread changes over time. At 25 with no wife or children the priorities are likely to be different to a 40 year old with 2 children, company car and wife who works part time. In the same way when you get to 55 and kids have left home priorities are going to be different again.
Anyway, interesting opinions.
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