Bike wont start - Hornet F4

Bike wont start - Hornet F4

Author
Discussion

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
I have a feeling that something is draining the battery. The dash lights up and the needles spin round and back, but then I get a click and nothing.

I've charged the battery and changed the main fuse but no change. Then jumped it off a friend's car and got it running, but then after a 20 min ride I turned it off, let it sit and now we're back to dead.

So, my next thought was a dodgy starter relay. The battery sits around 12.5 so shouldnt be a problem right?

Any ideas appreciated!

Unbusy

934 posts

97 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
If it started with a jump from the car, then that says the relay is ok.
That voltage is too low.
Read the voltage as you try to start the bike. If its just clicking and a low reading = flat battery.
Hope you sort it.
Edit to say, off load the voltage should be closer to 14 straight after a run. If the battery conections are clean and tight then try a batter conditioner/charger. If that doesnt work then its a replacment needed.


Edited by Unbusy on Sunday 22 May 16:28

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
Kept the multimeter on it while trying to start it, doesn't drop below 12 at any point. Is that still too low?

I've been running the bike daily for the last week, so not sure why the battery would die.

Unbusy

934 posts

97 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
Is that reading with the engine turning over?

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
No, just with the ignition on, and then the voltage flickers slightly when the starter is pressed.

What should I be seeing if I get another jump and multimeter the battery?

Unbusy

934 posts

97 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
A battery can suffer an internal problem at any time, so its ok one moment then its not. Its rare, but happened to me twice on cars over the years.
12 volts makes it seem ok, but its how the battery preforms underload that counts.
when you try to start the engine, if the relay is 'chattering' then the battery is not up,to the job.
As it chatters, the voltage may flicker from around 8 or 9 volts back to 14. This shows a bad battery.

Have you a car battery handy and jump leads?
Disconnect the bikes negative connection and put the cable to one side.
Connect the positive jump lead to the battery positive post.
Connect the negative jump lead to the bike frame/engine. Clean metal. Not a painted area so it will pass the current.
You now have taken the bike battery out of circuit.
Now try and start the engine. If it works, then it shows the bike battery is the fault.

Whilst its ticking over, read the voltage actoss the car battery. 14.2 shows that your bike charging system is ok.



Unbusy

934 posts

97 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
Ps. It may be easier to use the bikes negative cable to connect the jump lead to instead of the frame/engine.
Pps. Nothing is connected the bikes negative terminal at this stage of fault finding.

Another ps. Well done Shakey! Race two!

Jazoli

9,100 posts

250 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
Unbusy said:
Another ps. Well done Shakey! Race two!
Thanks for that, not watched it yet and posted on a completely unrelated thread.

Unbusy

934 posts

97 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
My apologies.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Cheers Unbusy, will give that a go later today.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
No luck with the above, wouldn't be jump started from the car either which it would at the weekend.

I'm now thinking reg/rec or a short somewhere, but now have no way of even getting it to a garage and my patience is at an end.

Coincidentally my Haynes manual arrived, time to cram!


sjtscott

4,215 posts

231 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
lindrup119 said:
No luck with the above, wouldn't be jump started from the car either which it would at the weekend.

I'm now thinking reg/rec or a short somewhere, but now have no way of even getting it to a garage and my patience is at an end.

Coincidentally my Haynes manual arrived, time to cram!
So no AA or RAC recovery? Its perfect for these sort of things.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
It's a new bike (to me), and as with most new breakdown policies there is a waiting period. I have until Thursday.

WaferThinHam

1,680 posts

130 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
lindrup119 said:
No luck with the above, wouldn't be jump started from the car either which it would at the weekend.

I'm now thinking reg/rec or a short somewhere, but now have no way of even getting it to a garage and my patience is at an end.

Coincidentally my Haynes manual arrived, time to cram!
What's changed for it to stop being jump started? How does it behave when you try and jump it? Can you bump start it?

Check your fuses again, then swap for a known working battery (that's the cheapest and easiest to check).

Reg/Rec is pretty common on these to fail, depending on how it's failed it may have taken the battery with it too. To be honest if your reg/rec was dead you wouldn't have been able to ride it for very long before the battery went flat and the bike had cut out, so at the moment the battery would seem to be the most likely.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
WaferThinHam said:
lindrup119 said:
No luck with the above, wouldn't be jump started from the car either which it would at the weekend.

I'm now thinking reg/rec or a short somewhere, but now have no way of even getting it to a garage and my patience is at an end.

Coincidentally my Haynes manual arrived, time to cram!
What's changed for it to stop being jump started? How does it behave when you try and jump it? Can you bump start it?

Check your fuses again, then swap for a known working battery (that's the cheapest and easiest to check).

Reg/Rec is pretty common on these to fail, depending on how it's failed it may have taken the battery with it too. To be honest if your reg/rec was dead you wouldn't have been able to ride it for very long before the battery went flat and the bike had cut out, so at the moment the battery would seem to be the most likely.
Not sure what's changed. Have replaced every fuse on the bike just for the sake of it.

Haven't actually tried a bump start yet so might give that a go.

When I turn the ignition on and press the starter I get a click from the starter. But if I try again, the power saps and the bike dies completely, lights off etc.

I checked as many connectors as I could, and pulled out the rec/reg clip and found that one of the pins in the loom socket for the rec/reg is slightly charred. So rather than shell out for either a battery or a rec/reg yet I might have that replaced first.

Cheers for the input, I'm fairly crap mechanically (especially electrically) and was hoping not to have to learn the hard way with this bike but through modifications instead.

WaferThinHam

1,680 posts

130 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
lindrup119 said:
Not sure what's changed. Have replaced every fuse on the bike just for the sake of it.

Haven't actually tried a bump start yet so might give that a go.

When I turn the ignition on and press the starter I get a click from the starter. But if I try again, the power saps and the bike dies completely, lights off etc.

I checked as many connectors as I could, and pulled out the rec/reg clip and found that one of the pins in the loom socket for the rec/reg is slightly charred. So rather than shell out for either a battery or a rec/reg yet I might have that replaced first.
What happens if you turn the ignition off, wait 30 seconds and turn it back on?

Quickest thing to do as I say is find a mate with a battery of the same size and just swap it. Then see what it does.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
WaferThinHam said:
What happens if you turn the ignition off, wait 30 seconds and turn it back on?

Quickest thing to do as I say is find a mate with a battery of the same size and just swap it. Then see what it does.
It comes back alive and I get the dash lights, headlights and dials. Pressing the starter button seems to drain it again.

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

212 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Change the battery, it's not a bad idea to put a fresh one in anyway.

Check for shorts from the stator output terminals to the battery negative.

lindrup119

Original Poster:

1,228 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Probably will get the battery changed anyway, but (and sorry if this is a silly question) even with a slightly duff battery surely the bike would start from a jump?

pozi

1,723 posts

187 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Have you checked the starter solenoid, this is the thing that clicks when you press the start button but the connectors inside often corrode over time so it does not pass any current to the starter motor.

The bike would still bump start though. Easy check is with the multimeter on the soleniod output which goes to the starter motor, it also sounds suspicious if the volts do not drop when you press the start button.

None technical way is to use a big screwdriver and short the solenoid connectors, be prepare for a big spark and the starter should spin.