Petrol Station Argument - Sitting on the Bike?
Discussion
srob said:
I know it's a great laugh but fires on bikes are a real potential issue.
This is a (very expensive!) old bike that went up in flames at an event in Biarritz earlier this month, caused by a fuel tap failing and allowing fuel to drop onto the engine.
I live in fear of fire when riding the older bikes, and I've come very, very close to losing a bike when a float stuck and sprayed fuel onto the back of the cylinder head. I stood there helplessly watching as steam enveloped the bike, but luckily it didn't ignite.
I entirely agree fire anywhere on any motor vehicle really scary This is a (very expensive!) old bike that went up in flames at an event in Biarritz earlier this month, caused by a fuel tap failing and allowing fuel to drop onto the engine.
I live in fear of fire when riding the older bikes, and I've come very, very close to losing a bike when a float stuck and sprayed fuel onto the back of the cylinder head. I stood there helplessly watching as steam enveloped the bike, but luckily it didn't ignite.
Purely as a footnote , I took legal action against the station owners when the actual sitution turned out to be faulty cut-out which has been previously reported but the attendant hadn't take pump out of service. This was clear an unfortunate incident placing mine and others lives at risk , as said 750 was rather warm , it also ruined my leathers (try washing leathers at night using service station watering can , you get lots of strange offers) and b*ll*cked the paintwork. Lesson learnt I pay a lot more attention when filling up, even if that means getting off because those that travel in tin-tops seem obvious about how close they want to get my bike - rant over
I posted this on the 23rd of May in the last thread on this subject in here:
"It's not European Law. It is recommended by PELG, (Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group) however...https://www.energyinst.org/technical/distribution-and-marketing/filling-stations/pelg (click on the document link near the bottom of the page for their "Red Guide"
Their recommendation is as follows:
"20) Dispensing petrol into the tanks of motor cycles. There are many recorded
cases of fires having occurred due to the overfilling of motor cycle and scooter
tanks. Due to the close proximity of the tanks to hot engine parts and electrics,
petrol vapour has been ignited either immediately the tank has been overfilled,
or when the motor cycle is being restarted. The reason for overfilling can be
associated with the fact that the filling of motor cycle tanks is directly into the
tank and not via a fill pipe as with a car; having the nozzle placed into the fill
pipe of a car enables the cut off mechanism to operate before the fuel reaches
a level where it can be spilt; this is not always possible with the tank of a motor
cycle, particularly when the customer is trying to top up the tank, or during
times when the petrol has been adapted for winter temperatures and the fuel is
more volatile. In view of this, and also to avoid the contamination of customers’
clothing with petrol, the guidance is to not permit the filling of motor cycles
whilst the rider or passenger are sitting on them.
the guidance is not to permit the filling of motorcycles whilst the rider or passenger are sitting on them
However, the poor standard of training delivered to staff, their general stupidity and/or their inability to retain/regurgitate "complex and hard to understand rules and that" may lead to individuals incorrectly spouting bks about EU law etc.
Personally, I've never felt the need to try and squeeze an extra cupful of fuel into my tank...could I perhaps get an extra 3 miles before I have to fill up again? Hardly seems worth getting upset about. "
Thread here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
"It's not European Law. It is recommended by PELG, (Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group) however...https://www.energyinst.org/technical/distribution-and-marketing/filling-stations/pelg (click on the document link near the bottom of the page for their "Red Guide"
Their recommendation is as follows:
"20) Dispensing petrol into the tanks of motor cycles. There are many recorded
cases of fires having occurred due to the overfilling of motor cycle and scooter
tanks. Due to the close proximity of the tanks to hot engine parts and electrics,
petrol vapour has been ignited either immediately the tank has been overfilled,
or when the motor cycle is being restarted. The reason for overfilling can be
associated with the fact that the filling of motor cycle tanks is directly into the
tank and not via a fill pipe as with a car; having the nozzle placed into the fill
pipe of a car enables the cut off mechanism to operate before the fuel reaches
a level where it can be spilt; this is not always possible with the tank of a motor
cycle, particularly when the customer is trying to top up the tank, or during
times when the petrol has been adapted for winter temperatures and the fuel is
more volatile. In view of this, and also to avoid the contamination of customers’
clothing with petrol, the guidance is to not permit the filling of motor cycles
whilst the rider or passenger are sitting on them.
the guidance is not to permit the filling of motorcycles whilst the rider or passenger are sitting on them
However, the poor standard of training delivered to staff, their general stupidity and/or their inability to retain/regurgitate "complex and hard to understand rules and that" may lead to individuals incorrectly spouting bks about EU law etc.
Personally, I've never felt the need to try and squeeze an extra cupful of fuel into my tank...could I perhaps get an extra 3 miles before I have to fill up again? Hardly seems worth getting upset about. "
Thread here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Trabi601 said:
I'm in the business. It's not legislative, but something recommended by fire officers / petroleum officers and is generally an adopted policy by petrol retailers.
It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
Wow, reasoned explanation and justification of some rules - shocker!!!It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
I just wish that when these companies roll out some of these policies the communicate it in a better way. The old "its the law" crap gets thrown around so many times, but clearly this isn't and they need to be really careful. I have had the helmet off issue a few times and pushed back on it too. One time I had the station manager use the 'its the law' excuse, and I tried my very best pedant act to help, but clearly didnt.
If its just a policy then I for one won't be worried - its your policy to not serve me if I am on my bike or have my helmet on? Well its my policy to go elsewhere and use a different station that is more reasonable!
Oddly, in the land of the law suit (California), this isn't a thing. On, off, helmet on / off - no one cares. You pre-pay in CA and hence, no money, no fuel. Problem solved. Its a ball ache for some from out of state, but as a system its fine. And if you have an issue, dont sue the gas station, they will sue you for being a muppet!
at all the babies so afraid of petrol in a filling station they plan an 'escape route'. That is f
king brilliant.Anecdotally by the way, the one time I was made to get off the bike and remove my helmet, an air pocket (or something) in the tank sprayed fuel all over my face.
It was actually fine but I made a massive song and dance about "MY EYES, MY EYES! IT BUUUUURRRRNNNSSSS!!!" just to make the stupid cow who insisted I get off feel bad. I could feel her sweating a lawsuit from distance away
So if we're mistaking anecdotes for data then I've proven conclusively that it's more dangerous filling up off the bike.
As an aside, my preference is to fill up with the pump to my right. It's not an escape route thing; it just makes it easier to get on and off. I'd assume most are the same so surely a bike is most likely to tip away from the pump onto the sidestand??
Also, "throw the bike in the direction of the pump" is too ridiculous for words. Aye, no bother Superman.
I got a bking last week for passing the pump over to top my mates bike off. Sitting on it was never mentioned tho.
One time I filled up (sat on it), helmet on, walked in to pay and the lady behind the counter asked me to remove my helmet, I said if I was going to steal the petrol I'd have ridden off already and not come in to pay. She looked confused and a little flustered and let me pay and go without the removal of said helmet!
king last week for passing the pump over to top my mates bike off. Sitting on it was never mentioned tho.One time I filled up (sat on it), helmet on, walked in to pay and the lady behind the counter asked me to remove my helmet, I said if I was going to steal the petrol I'd have ridden off already and not come in to pay. She looked confused and a little flustered and let me pay and go without the removal of said helmet!
Disastrous said:
Also, "throw the bike in the direction of the pump" is too ridiculous for words. Aye, no bother Superman.
There is lots of CCTV footage of things going wrong whilst refuelling - when it does go wrong, the rider will often jump away from the pump, pushing the bike in the opposite direction.DM79 said:
I got a bking last week for passing the pump over to top my mates bike off. Sitting on it was never mentioned tho.
One time I filled up (sat on it), helmet on, walked in to pay and the lady behind the counter asked me to remove my helmet, I said if I was going to steal the petrol I'd have ridden off already and not come in to pay. She looked confused and a little flustered and let me pay and go without the removal of said helmet!
We've recently changed policy, asking to 'lift visor or remove helmet' - this is so you can hear other vehicles and / or tannoy announcements.king last week for passing the pump over to top my mates bike off. Sitting on it was never mentioned tho.One time I filled up (sat on it), helmet on, walked in to pay and the lady behind the counter asked me to remove my helmet, I said if I was going to steal the petrol I'd have ridden off already and not come in to pay. She looked confused and a little flustered and let me pay and go without the removal of said helmet!
Trabi601 said:
Disastrous said:
Also, "throw the bike in the direction of the pump" is too ridiculous for words. Aye, no bother Superman.
There is lots of CCTV footage of things going wrong whilst refuelling - when it does go wrong, the rider will often jump away from the pump, pushing the bike in the opposite direction.creampuff said:
Disastrous said:
at all the babies so afraid of petrol in a filling station they plan an 'escape route'. That is fking brilliant.ks on their way to a night out of non-stop shagging. Exactly. None.
Disastrous said:
How many times have you or anyone you know been burned to death whilst filling up a motorbike?
Exactly. None.
Exactly. None.
Nope, that one didn't happen either. Same as the other one I posted I guess.
Funny how some people think they're cool by proving/trying to prove how un-H&S they are
Trabi601 said:
Looks like the bike was pushed towards the dispenser when the rider leapt off, too!
Yeah that was at the TT a few years back, and the re-fueller ended up on fire. Don't think he was too badly injured as he had proper gear on.I remember reading about another incident where a rider at the TT had fuel splash in his face as they were changing his visor and refuelling him. He had contact lenses in and the fuel melted one to his eyeball. He was asked what he did, his reply was "I shut that eye for the rest of the race"
Trabi601 said:
srob said:
Nope, that one didn't happen either. Same as the other one I posted I guess.
Funny how some people think they're cool by proving/trying to prove how un-H&S they are
Ferrari had a pitlane fire a few years back as well but I would assume you don't don full nomex just to pop a bit of V Power in the car to get you home...
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