Isle of Man Police release shocking video
Discussion
That crash was a predictable and inevitable outcome of the riding by the overtaking bike. That wasn't a single mistake with tragic consequences, that was sustained riding of an abysmal standard with no regard to other users of the road.
No sympathy whatsoever for the dead idiot who caused this crash. I'm sorry that someone else who was just minding their own business was killed by the sustained bad riding of someone else.
No sympathy whatsoever for the dead idiot who caused this crash. I'm sorry that someone else who was just minding their own business was killed by the sustained bad riding of someone else.
creampuff said:
That crash was a predictable and inevitable outcome of the riding by the overtaking bike. That wasn't a single mistake with tragic consequences, that was sustained riding of an abysmal standard with no regard to other users of the road.
No sympathy whatsoever for the dead idiot who caused this crash. I'm sorry that someone else who was just minding their own business was killed by the sustained bad riding of someone else.
My fNo sympathy whatsoever for the dead idiot who caused this crash. I'm sorry that someone else who was just minding their own business was killed by the sustained bad riding of someone else.
king hero.Never made an error of judgement or mistake then? Whatever you think they are both dead.
How do you know the other biker wasn't riding like a t
t before he died?RemyMartin said:
How do you know the other biker wasn't riding like a t
t before he died?creampuff said:
That crash was a predictable and inevitable outcome of the riding by the overtaking bike.
I didn't see enough of his/her riding to form an opinion that it was a predictable & inevitable outcome. It was riding that caused the collision by him/her, but I didn't see a history of it prior to the event.Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 30th July 12:56
RemyMartin said:
My fking hero.
Never made an error of judgement or mistake then? Whatever you think they are both dead.
How do you know the other biker wasn't riding like a tt before he died?
Read what I fking hero.Never made an error of judgement or mistake then? Whatever you think they are both dead.
How do you know the other biker wasn't riding like a t
t before he died?king said. That wasn't a mistake, that was a sustained period of stupid riding which anyone - except you it seems - can expect to end very badly. What the fk do you think is likely to happen if you overtake, at high speed, on the far right hand side of the road on a right hand bend?[quote=Löyly]
Even if he was (and it seems that he wasn't), does it matter? He was minding his own business on his own side of the road when someone bungling an overtake crashed into him and killed him. He wasn't engaged in any injudicious action at all when he was killed.
[/quote]
It's don't matter either way. Both are dead, sad for the both of them really. More so than the overtaker but either way a poor decision and its gone wrong and cost him and an innocent person their lives. I'm sure we've all had a near miss where it could have gone this way were luck not the other way
Even if he was (and it seems that he wasn't), does it matter? He was minding his own business on his own side of the road when someone bungling an overtake crashed into him and killed him. He wasn't engaged in any injudicious action at all when he was killed.
[/quote]
It's don't matter either way. Both are dead, sad for the both of them really. More so than the overtaker but either way a poor decision and its gone wrong and cost him and an innocent person their lives. I'm sure we've all had a near miss where it could have gone this way were luck not the other way
SteveSteveson said:
308mate said:
Andy XRV said:
Over the years there have been so many head on collisions on the mountain that during the whole of the TT both practice and race week the unrestricted section is one way. Maybe the police should adopt that strategy for all other bike meetings including The Festival of Motorcycling.
Is that not just legislating for the lowest common denominator? What next, remove the engines from all visiting bikes for big events? Of course not. As I was explaining to someone recently who hurt themselves and tried to lay the blame elsewhere, biking has absolute accountability. That's one of the reasons we do it, isn't it? ks up badly enough is going to kill us. This is an extreme case of course it doesn't make it different. We know by being on them we're at greater risk. I just despise more legislation for the sake of it because there is no way of drawing a line. watching someone actually die on film isnt like hollywood, you know there was a real life attached to that person, i was watching a video about ukrainian war crimes , bunch of people trying to vote shouting at soldiers, soldier draws ak47 to guys head and puts a round through his cheek, ive never actually felt my stomach churn before, violent deaths are harder to cope with , here today , gone today.
308mate said:
SteveSteveson said:
308mate said:
Andy XRV said:
Over the years there have been so many head on collisions on the mountain that during the whole of the TT both practice and race week the unrestricted section is one way. Maybe the police should adopt that strategy for all other bike meetings including The Festival of Motorcycling.
Is that not just legislating for the lowest common denominator? What next, remove the engines from all visiting bikes for big events? Of course not. As I was explaining to someone recently who hurt themselves and tried to lay the blame elsewhere, biking has absolute accountability. That's one of the reasons we do it, isn't it? ks up badly enough is going to kill us. This is an extreme case of course it doesn't make it different. We know by being on them we're at greater risk. I just despise more legislation for the sake of it because there is no way of drawing a line. k me your over dramatic. By all accounts that kind of riding is not uncommon on that section of road, which is why the police released the video. Making it one way over that puris is better than the alternative. Either more people die from tts like that or speed limits, and enforcing them.The rider who caused the crash was German a local news report of the inquest is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man...
If you google "Lewis Clark" you will be able to find more on the incident. It seems that he was killed by the initial impact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man...
If you google "Lewis Clark" you will be able to find more on the incident. It seems that he was killed by the initial impact.
vonhosen said:
I didn't see enough of his/her riding to form an opinion that it was a predictable & inevitable outcome. It was riding that caused the collision by him/her, but I didn't see a history of it prior to the event.
There were two separate overtakes. The first one he overtook on a straight with a RH bend in front. He will not have been able to see traffic coming around that bend. It was a blind, high speed overtake which relied on someone just by coincidence not coming the other way. Having another two bikes and the two black cars come the opposite direction only a few seconds prior to this, he could have been under no illusion that oncoming traffic could not be expected. riding that caused the collision by him/her, but I didn't see a history of it prior to the event.Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 30th July 12:56
The second and fatal overtake was in the bend and he was initially positioned to the left and the biker which he was moments later to recklessly and needlessly kill, would have been there to be seen for several seconds.
Abysmal riding. That was no mistake, that was having no regard whatsoever for the safety of others. I have sympathy for people who make simple mistakes but I have no sympathy for the idiot who caused this, for he deliberately chose to ride that way. It is tragic that the other young biker just happened to be on the wrong bit of road at the wrong time; now dead leaving behind grieving parents and two sisters. But the other bikers riding was so reckless, it could have been anyone who had the misfortune to be there that day.
The fireball was spectacular, but it would have been the 150+mph closing speed impact which killed them.
Press report.
Two visiting motorcyclists died by accident in a head-on collision an inquest has ruled.
Coroner John Needham said Lewis Clark, who was 22 and came from Pontefract, was heading towards Douglas on the Mountain Road when the accident happened on the morning of August 30 during last year’s Manx Grand Prix and Classic TT festival.
Recording his accident verdict, Mr Needham said Mr Clark’s Yamaha 600 Thundercat was hit head-on by the other bike which was heading towards Ramsey and had not returned to its own side of the road after overtaking.
Mr Clark and the other man, 53-year-old managing director, Christian Berkhan, from Germany, both died instantly from multiple injuries at the scene near Black Hut.
Both bikes burst into flames on impact but expert examination of the wreckage found no evidence of prior faults with either Mr Clark’s Yamaha or Mr Berkhan’s Ducati 848.
Mr Needham said he believed the point of impact was on Mr Clark’s side of the road, the south-bound carriageway and neither rider had had chance to react.
For some reason, he said, Mr Berkhan did not appear to have seen Mr Clark’s approaching bike, despite the Yamaha having its headlight on. Neither bike was travelling at excessive speed and both were experienced riders.
Beverley Clark, Mr Clark’s mother, paid tribute in court to her son, a chef, who, she said, lived life in the moment, loved motorbikes, had a great sense of humour and made friends where ever he went.
Mr Needham offered condolences to both families.
Two visiting motorcyclists died by accident in a head-on collision an inquest has ruled.
Coroner John Needham said Lewis Clark, who was 22 and came from Pontefract, was heading towards Douglas on the Mountain Road when the accident happened on the morning of August 30 during last year’s Manx Grand Prix and Classic TT festival.
Recording his accident verdict, Mr Needham said Mr Clark’s Yamaha 600 Thundercat was hit head-on by the other bike which was heading towards Ramsey and had not returned to its own side of the road after overtaking.
Mr Clark and the other man, 53-year-old managing director, Christian Berkhan, from Germany, both died instantly from multiple injuries at the scene near Black Hut.
Both bikes burst into flames on impact but expert examination of the wreckage found no evidence of prior faults with either Mr Clark’s Yamaha or Mr Berkhan’s Ducati 848.
Mr Needham said he believed the point of impact was on Mr Clark’s side of the road, the south-bound carriageway and neither rider had had chance to react.
For some reason, he said, Mr Berkhan did not appear to have seen Mr Clark’s approaching bike, despite the Yamaha having its headlight on. Neither bike was travelling at excessive speed and both were experienced riders.
Beverley Clark, Mr Clark’s mother, paid tribute in court to her son, a chef, who, she said, lived life in the moment, loved motorbikes, had a great sense of humour and made friends where ever he went.
Mr Needham offered condolences to both families.
Edited by telecat on Saturday 30th July 21:23
creampuff said:
vonhosen said:
I didn't see enough of his/her riding to form an opinion that it was a predictable & inevitable outcome. It was riding that caused the collision by him/her, but I didn't see a history of it prior to the event.
There were two separate overtakes. The first one he overtook on a straight with a RH bend in front. He will not have been able to see traffic coming around that bend. It was a blind, high speed overtake which relied on someone just by coincidence not coming the other way. Having another two bikes and the two black cars come the opposite direction only a few seconds prior to this, he could have been under no illusion that oncoming traffic could not be expected. riding that caused the collision by him/her, but I didn't see a history of it prior to the event.Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 30th July 12:56
The second and fatal overtake was in the bend and he was initially positioned to the left and the biker which he was moments later to recklessly and needlessly kill, would have been there to be seen for several seconds.
Abysmal riding. That was no mistake, that was having no regard whatsoever for the safety of others. I have sympathy for people who make simple mistakes but I have no sympathy for the idiot who caused this, for he deliberately chose to ride that way. It is tragic that the other young biker just happened to be on the wrong bit of road at the wrong time; now dead leaving behind grieving parents and two sisters. But the other bikers riding was so reckless, it could have been anyone who had the misfortune to be there that day.
The fireball was spectacular, but it would have been the 150+mph closing speed impact which killed them.
Overtaking towards a bend isn't a problem provided you can get back to the nearside safely prior to anything towards being able to get to you.
With only bikes, heading in the same direction as him, ahead of the camera bike when he did the first overtake (with bikes taking up far less road space than cars etc) it doesn't appear that would have been too difficult for him.
The landscape looks like it would have afforded lateral vision through the right hand bend, should a rider be minded to look there.
The second overtake, yes abysmal, he must clearly have not seen the bike towards at all or assumed it was actually another bike ahead travelling in the same direction as him. His vision scans were insufficient/lacking prior to going in failing to see or assess accurately that poor rider towards.
I stand by my earlier statement Re not enough history/evidence to show it was anything more than careless on his part, all be it with the most tragic of outcomes for the innocent rider towards. In saying it was no mistake or error of judgement, are you saying he intentionally had the collision in which he was likely to (& did) die?
Of course he may well have been guilty of riding dangerously, but there just isn't enough evidence in that video to show that or that the outcome that did occur was an inevitable one as you contest.
Ilovejapcrap said:
Don't thy drive on the other side of road in Germany.
Had he had a laps in consent ration and just kinda lingered over that side during the overtake as its second nature ?
Just a thought.
Very sad event
He clearly comes back to nearside after first overtake (passing first two bikes ahead of camera bike) prior to the right hand bend & then goes back to the the offside for another overtake (on third bike ahead of camera bike).Had he had a laps in consent ration and just kinda lingered over that side during the overtake as its second nature ?
Just a thought.
Very sad event
The thing that worries me is no one BUT no one, went to see if there was anything they could assist with. Why? If i hadnt been told it was IOM i would have said it was a so what an accident Russian tyoe vid where nobody gives a flying fk. Jeeez at least i would have been trying to put the fire out on the poor sod.
k. Jeeez at least i would have been trying to put the fire out on the poor sod. silverfoxcc said:
The thing that worries me is no one BUT no one, went to see if there was anything they could assist with. Why? If i hadnt been told it was IOM i would have said it was a so what an accident Russian tyoe vid where nobody gives a flying fk. Jeeez at least i would have been trying to put the fire out on the poor sod.
fire ball.k. Jeeez at least i would have been trying to put the fire out on the poor sod. and do what?
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