Discussion
A mentality is setting in (relatively new biker), I'm on a bike, I'm not here to sit behind/IN traffic (as if I'm sat in a car). I need to overcome this current situation by getting past this car / queue...
As others have said, survey the situation plus the safest way past. However take each overtaking maneuver a car at a time, rather than as 'one big obstruction' of vehicles, otherwise your attention might be on something else and not the current vehicle you are overtaking, who is about to switch lanes!
Having driven a car for the last 20 years, you already have road sense, plus can almost predict what the vehicle(s) ahead might do.
Slightly more back on topic: If there's a stream of cars in the outside lane, as a motorcyclist, I think there should be more acceptance you might take the "free" lane to "filter" past these cars. But stay closer to the solid line, on your left, so should one of the cars decide to switch back to the left lane (where you are), you have more time/space to react and avoid any danger.
As others have said, survey the situation plus the safest way past. However take each overtaking maneuver a car at a time, rather than as 'one big obstruction' of vehicles, otherwise your attention might be on something else and not the current vehicle you are overtaking, who is about to switch lanes!
Having driven a car for the last 20 years, you already have road sense, plus can almost predict what the vehicle(s) ahead might do.
Slightly more back on topic: If there's a stream of cars in the outside lane, as a motorcyclist, I think there should be more acceptance you might take the "free" lane to "filter" past these cars. But stay closer to the solid line, on your left, so should one of the cars decide to switch back to the left lane (where you are), you have more time/space to react and avoid any danger.
Edited by DanSI on Friday 26th August 09:49
Edited by DanSI on Friday 26th August 09:50
bogie said:
If you are doing 40mph in a 40mph and the outside lane is bumper to bumper, thats fine, you are going with the flow of the traffic, not your fault the outside lane is slower....
This is what I was told by instructors (new rider yo!) and I've read elsewhere. It's all about going with the flow. If the inside lane is moving quicker there's nothing stopping you changing lanes and maintaining their speed, and sometimes the inside lane happens to be empty. Pretty sure there's nothing stopping cars doing it either, it's just a bit of a dick move when they force their way back right before the lorry. Obviously safety trumps all of that so if you're being a prat doing stupid undertakes or weaving like a pisshead you're going to get pulled eventually 
At least that's how I understand it.
R E S T E C P said:
Not safe at all.
Drivers will not look for filtering bikes in their nearside mirror when moving at speed. If the lane is clear they'll move, sometimes quickly and without warning.
If you want to stay safe I'm afraid you're stuck in the outside lane with the rest of us until the car 20 places ahead pulls back in and we can all speed up again!
Yes they will, but quickly - no.Drivers will not look for filtering bikes in their nearside mirror when moving at speed. If the lane is clear they'll move, sometimes quickly and without warning.
If you want to stay safe I'm afraid you're stuck in the outside lane with the rest of us until the car 20 places ahead pulls back in and we can all speed up again!
If they are moving a speed such as dual carriageway, if they move lanes it won't be quickly due to the speed they are carrying.
Mr OCD said:
R E S T E C P said:
Not safe at all.
Drivers will not look for filtering bikes in their nearside mirror when moving at speed. If the lane is clear they'll move, sometimes quickly and without warning.
If you want to stay safe I'm afraid you're stuck in the outside lane with the rest of us until the car 20 places ahead pulls back in and we can all speed up again!
Yes they will, but quickly - no.Drivers will not look for filtering bikes in their nearside mirror when moving at speed. If the lane is clear they'll move, sometimes quickly and without warning.
If you want to stay safe I'm afraid you're stuck in the outside lane with the rest of us until the car 20 places ahead pulls back in and we can all speed up again!
If they are moving a speed such as dual carriageway, if they move lanes it won't be quickly due to the speed they are carrying.
CAPP0 said:
I commute 30 miles each way daily and 2/3 of that is on motorway/DC. What I don't do is weave through rapidly, 20-30mph faster than the traffic is moving, when the traffic is already at the speed limit. Plenty of people do, but they're often riding sportsbikes and wearing trainers/trackies/hoodies (take your pick).
What I do do is maintain progress, particularly when the traffic slows down. I'm wary (although I do it) of filtering between, say, lane 2 and lane 3, simply because there is always someone ready to swap lanes without looking. Be careful, cautious even.
This. As soon as we start to pick up speed, I'll join back in. Firstly my little M600 struggles at anything past 60 and also I don't really fancy taking a punt sideways at silly speeds.What I do do is maintain progress, particularly when the traffic slows down. I'm wary (although I do it) of filtering between, say, lane 2 and lane 3, simply because there is always someone ready to swap lanes without looking. Be careful, cautious even.
As every there is usually someone on a sports bike filtering at 100+ when the outside lane is at the limit.
I've always struggled to understand when it becomes undertaking?
In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
dc2rr07 said:
Mr OCD said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Too much thinking, just f
kin pass them without fannying around like a fanny
That.kin pass them without fannying around like a fannyI see bikers pass through the lanes on a motorway at speed all the time and tbh I can't help but think if they do have a crash then they deserve it for being a bit thick (well, not deserve but you know what I mean). It not only puts themselves into danger! Just madness in my eyes. Drivers will often pass a car on the outside lane whilst going fast enough to assume it's clear to move back over to the middle without checking. I know you should always have a quick glance to check clearance but allot people just don't.
If it's start stop and less than 20-30mph with plenty of clearance then yeah but still be super safe assessing each pass whilst filtering.
Saying that. I'm not on bike YET and will no doubt be on one soon enough riding like a tit in no time
Some people just need a 30 page instruction manual for everything and some people should read a 30 page instruction manual in how to get out if bed or tie their shoes laces
Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
Biker's Nemesis said:
Some people just need a 30 page instruction manual for everything and some people should read a 30 page instruction manual in how to get out if bed or tie their shoes laces
Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
How do you do that then? Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
black-k1 said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Some people just need a 30 page instruction manual for everything and some people should read a 30 page instruction manual in how to get out if bed or tie their shoes laces
Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
How do you do that then? Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
wizard484 said:
I've always struggled to understand when it becomes undertaking?
In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
Undertaking would be say there are a couple of cars in the outside lane doing 70mph, a clear inside lane, you blat it past at 90mph in the inside lane.In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
If all lanes, 2, 3, 4 are moving at different speeds, you just go at the speed of your lane or you split lanes and go as fast as you judge to be safe in between, if there is room to do so. Usually good practice to split lane 2 and 3, or 3 and 4. Often lane 1 to 2 have more traffic changing lane/joining and slower moving articulated traffic taking up a lot of the lane width.
All this "common sense" stuff is taught on "advanced " training courses. So you either learn by acquiring years of experience/mistakes or accelerate your learning and do some post test training, and ask all the "dumb" questions to some copper who rides 10k miles a month for a living
Edited by bogie on Friday 26th August 15:48
The piss-poor lane discipline of other road users means that passing on the left is something I will happily do.
I will exercise caution in doing so, but a half a mile gap on the inside lane up to a slower moving vehicle should be used to full advantage. Move out into the outside lane to pass slower moving vehicle then back to the inside lane. Think of it as a re-education programme for those people who fail to comprehend the meaning of the phrase:
'Keep left unless overtaking.'
I will exercise caution in doing so, but a half a mile gap on the inside lane up to a slower moving vehicle should be used to full advantage. Move out into the outside lane to pass slower moving vehicle then back to the inside lane. Think of it as a re-education programme for those people who fail to comprehend the meaning of the phrase:
'Keep left unless overtaking.'
bogie said:
wizard484 said:
I've always struggled to understand when it becomes undertaking?
In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
Undertaking would be say there are a couple of cars in the outside lane doing 70mph, a clear inside lane, you blat it past at 90mph in the inside lane.In slow moving traffic all of the lanes move at different speeds, sometimes the inner lanes moving quicker. But when it starts to speed up, if the outside lane is still moving slower, can you continue at the speed limit in the middle or inner lane, isn't this classed as undertaking?
If all lanes, 2, 3, 4 are moving at different speeds, you just go at the speed of your lane or you split lanes and go as fast as you judge to be safe in between, if there is room to do so. Usually good practice to split lane 2 and 3, or 3 and 4. Often lane 1 to 2 have more traffic changing lane/joining and slower moving articulated traffic taking up a lot of the lane width.
All this "common sense" stuff is taught on "advanced " training courses. So you either learn by acquiring years of experience/mistakes or accelerate your learning and do some post test training, and ask all the "dumb" questions to some copper who rides 10k miles a month for a living
Undertaking is passing on the left whatever the speed differential.
Undertaking is not in itself an offence on the statutes & the highway code gives examples where it may be considered reasonable to pass on the left.
Outside those examples the CPS 'may' regard undertaking as a Sec 3 RTA offence.
I'l be so bold as to say that there are several camps here but the three which stand out are:
- bit new to it, not sure what to do
- only have to filter very occasionally, so fk it, I'm steaming through, it's only the odd occasion and I'll likely get away with it
- have to filter every day on the commute, intend to still be commuting next week/month/year so I'll steady up a bit
- bit new to it, not sure what to do
- only have to filter very occasionally, so fk it, I'm steaming through, it's only the odd occasion and I'll likely get away with it
- have to filter every day on the commute, intend to still be commuting next week/month/year so I'll steady up a bit
black-k1 said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Some people just need a 30 page instruction manual for everything and some people should read a 30 page instruction manual in how to get out if bed or tie their shoes laces
Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
How do you do that then? Some people believe it or not know how to pass other traffic safely and make progress without endangering themselves or others.
Struth!
http://www.suffolkroadsafe.net/assets/Motorcyclist...
Not quite 30 pages :-) but this may or may not prove useful
Not quite 30 pages :-) but this may or may not prove useful
A very quick scan I read this, which for ke sums it up. Anything else is increasing your risk somewhat..
l Keep your speed low so that you can stop if necessary. Ideally you should probably avoid filtering at all above around 20mph, just go with the flow. Speed differential varies according to the hazards but should probably be no higher than 15mph to keep everything under control. You must be travelling slowly enough that you can react if the situation changes. Don’t force the pace,
move steadily with the traffic.".
Regardless of how good you think you are, you only get 1 prediction wrong before crash bang wollop.
l Keep your speed low so that you can stop if necessary. Ideally you should probably avoid filtering at all above around 20mph, just go with the flow. Speed differential varies according to the hazards but should probably be no higher than 15mph to keep everything under control. You must be travelling slowly enough that you can react if the situation changes. Don’t force the pace,
move steadily with the traffic.".
Regardless of how good you think you are, you only get 1 prediction wrong before crash bang wollop.
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