RJ Almost got bikejacked

[3DP]

vonhosen said:

Fleegle said:

3DP said:

black-k1 said:

And the problem with confronting the thieves is ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-373586...

We really need a way to ensure this scum pay for what they do.

What a tragedy. Exactly why the police should focus more on this crime. These guys are brazen with acid and knives. Not only are they stealing scooters and motobikes, they then use these to commit other crimes - drug deliveries, murders, armed robberies, muggings etc.

That and get rid of the fear of home and property owners getting into trouble for protecting their property and themselves with proper force. If those guys had come out with baseball bats and messed up one of the scrotes, they would have been arrested and possibly charged - so you go out with your cock in your hand and hope the scum bags don't have knives.

This is the problem though, it will take an owner killing a scrote while protecting his property before anything changes (if at all) or the police actually believe their is a problem that needs dealing with.

What can the Police do?
They can't chase them (& they know it), disrupt their activities & it's harassment complaints.

This is the point though - chase them down. The moral hazard of doing what they are doing now is far greater than the moral problems of them killing themselves whilst being chased. The moment you run from the police anything that happens to you in the course of evading the police is on you, not them. Yes - they could crash and hurt someone innocent whilst fleeing, but that argument holds no water as if no criminals were ever pursued for risk of public safety, they will just commit more crimes and purposely risk public safety to stop police chasing them.

[scarble]

If the police can't chase/arrest them for bike theft, how come they can once they murder someone

[mgv8]

scarble said:

If the police can't chase/arrest them for bike theft, how come they can once they murder someone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37358681

[vonhosen]

scarble said:

If the police can't chase/arrest them for bike theft, how come they can once they murder someone

Life has greater value than property?

[vonhosen]

3DP said:

vonhosen said:

Fleegle said:

3DP said:

black-k1 said:

And the problem with confronting the thieves is ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-373586...

We really need a way to ensure this scum pay for what they do.

What a tragedy. Exactly why the police should focus more on this crime. These guys are brazen with acid and knives. Not only are they stealing scooters and motobikes, they then use these to commit other crimes - drug deliveries, murders, armed robberies, muggings etc.

That and get rid of the fear of home and property owners getting into trouble for protecting their property and themselves with proper force. If those guys had come out with baseball bats and messed up one of the scrotes, they would have been arrested and possibly charged - so you go out with your cock in your hand and hope the scum bags don't have knives.

This is the problem though, it will take an owner killing a scrote while protecting his property before anything changes (if at all) or the police actually believe their is a problem that needs dealing with.

What can the Police do?
They can't chase them (& they know it), disrupt their activities & it's harassment complaints.

This is the point though - chase them down. The moral hazard of doing what they are doing now is far greater than the moral problems of them killing themselves whilst being chased. The moment you run from the police anything that happens to you in the course of evading the police is on you, not them. Yes - they could crash and hurt someone innocent whilst fleeing, but that argument holds no water as if no criminals were ever pursued for risk of public safety, they will just commit more crimes and purposely risk public safety to stop police chasing them.

We haven't reached a stage where there is public support for it, in fact the opposite, look at Henry Hicks.
The people doing it are kids, inexperienced high risk riders & that's a consideration in the decision to pursue. Public opinion won't support the Police in chasing them & their is outcry when they do & they die. The officers will then face prison themselves, so why would they do it?
Public opinion & legal framework needs to change before Police action can.

[lindrup119]

vonhosen said:

We haven't reached a stage where there is public support for it, in fact the opposite, look at Henry Hicks.

Interesting.

From a Guardian article on the inquest:

Immediately prior to this collision Henry David Hicks was aware that plain clothes police officers were in unmarked vehicles driving at whatever distance behind him and wanting him to stop.

And yet he didn't stop...

I seriously don't understand how we've got to the point where if the police are pursuing someone, and that person crashes while trying to flee, that then becomes the fault of the police. Boggles the mind.

ETA:

vonhosen said:

Public opinion & legal framework needs to change before Police action can.

^^this

[3DP]

vonhosen said:

3DP said:

vonhosen said:

Fleegle said:

3DP said:

black-k1 said:

And the problem with confronting the thieves is ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-373586...

We really need a way to ensure this scum pay for what they do.

What a tragedy. Exactly why the police should focus more on this crime. These guys are brazen with acid and knives. Not only are they stealing scooters and motobikes, they then use these to commit other crimes - drug deliveries, murders, armed robberies, muggings etc.

That and get rid of the fear of home and property owners getting into trouble for protecting their property and themselves with proper force. If those guys had come out with baseball bats and messed up one of the scrotes, they would have been arrested and possibly charged - so you go out with your cock in your hand and hope the scum bags don't have knives.

This is the problem though, it will take an owner killing a scrote while protecting his property before anything changes (if at all) or the police actually believe their is a problem that needs dealing with.

What can the Police do?
They can't chase them (& they know it), disrupt their activities & it's harassment complaints.

This is the point though - chase them down. The moral hazard of doing what they are doing now is far greater than the moral problems of them killing themselves whilst being chased. The moment you run from the police anything that happens to you in the course of evading the police is on you, not them. Yes - they could crash and hurt someone innocent whilst fleeing, but that argument holds no water as if no criminals were ever pursued for risk of public safety, they will just commit more crimes and purposely risk public safety to stop police chasing them.

We haven't reached a stage where there is public support for it, in fact the opposite, look at Henry Hicks.
The people doing it are kids, inexperienced high risk riders & that's a consideration in the decision to pursue. Public opinion won't support the Police in chasing them & their is outcry when they do & they die. The officers will then face prison themselves, so why would they do it?
Public opinion & legal framework needs to change before Police action can.

There is public support for it. Unfortunately the outcry comes from a noisy minority who'd do better to look inwardly at their 'culture', than blame the police and society for all their ills. No one's allowed to talk about that though, in this era of militant liberalism.

[hornetrider]

black-k1 said:

And the problem with confronting the thieves is ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-373586...

We really need a way to ensure this scum pay for what they do.

Jesus Christ

[vonhosen]

3DP said:

There is public support for it. Unfortunately the outcry comes from a noisy minority who'd do better to look inwardly at their 'culture', than blame the police and society for all their ills. No one's allowed to talk about that though, in this era of militant liberalism.

There isn't sufficient support to force the changes needed.
The noisy as you call them take positive action to ensure policy action, the silent do not.
Until they do the noisy will hold sway.

[CoolHands]

This is exactly what anyone with any sense could forecast would happen. Scrotes have got more and more bold and now look. It's an epidemic. They need taking out the first time - that includes chasing them regardless of whether they get injured. It's fking bks that policemen are put under scrutiny when a scrote falls off being chased, this is the result.

How is it 2 arrests are immediately made? is it because in actual fact the offenders are well known beforehand? I presume yes. In which case it's a disgrace it comes to this before they are arrested (and this is not blaming the police - we need to get tough with these sts)

[Renn Sport]

This is pretty depressing... basically you have to ride a bike that these dimwits do not want. BMW flat twin comes to mind.

I have had a couple of mates eyeballed for their bikes. Also some verbal exchanges, which basically stated if you want this R1 then your gonna have to fking try and take it off me. They moved on but they thought about it.

I have had another mate get into a fight with 2 of them but had to flee on his big scoot when they pulled a big knife. Crocodile Dundee would have been impressed.

Some of the guys want to set up a sting operation and give these fkers a good hiding. Or literally gather a big group of bikers and hunt for them and give them a good hiding. Not big on vigilante justice but this is getting ridiculous.

[srob]

Renn Sport said:

Some of the guys want to set up a sting operation and give these fkers a good hiding. Or literally gather a big group of bikers and hunt for them and give them a good hiding. Not big on vigilante justice but this is getting ridiculous.

Years ago (15+) there was an article in one of the bike mags where a group had done this. They stood a bike out in a carpark (think it was a Mk1 Speed Triple) and then all sat in a van wearing masks etc waiting for someone to try and nick it.

Someone did, and the journalist made a good story of describing every punch and kick, Batman comic style with 'Poww' etc. Was a really good read.

[3DP]

vonhosen said:

3DP said:

There is public support for it. Unfortunately the outcry comes from a noisy minority who'd do better to look inwardly at their 'culture', than blame the police and society for all their ills. No one's allowed to talk about that though, in this era of militant liberalism.

There isn't sufficient support to force the changes needed.
The noisy as you call them take positive action to ensure policy action, the silent do not.
Until they do the noisy will hold sway.

Agreed.

Which will never happen because:

a) the militant liberal apologists like it like this.
b) the lefty media love to stir it up.
c) the silent majority are had by the balls. A counter protest against the noisy minority will go bad. Arrests of members of the silent majority who have things like jobs that are CRB checked, families to support through said jobs, rather than benefits, mortgages to pay etc. In my case, firearms and shotgun licenses that would be revoked. Not worth the risk. Arrests in the noisy minority - well that's a badge of honour - more police brutality, etc. Nothing to lose. Same reason gypsies get away with what they do.

The people who are noisiest about their rights are always the people who have done the least to deserve them, contributed the least to the society that protects those rights and are the first to flout other people's rights.

It's deeply unfair and wrong in the UK that the act of defending/protecting property or people sees you at massive risk of prosecution personally. That goes for both the police and victims.

[scarble]

mgv8 said:

scarble said:

If the police can't chase/arrest them for bike theft, how come they can once they murder someone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37358681

Yes I was responding to that.
If you report a bike theft, even in progress, nothing happens because they'll "never be able to catch them"
You get stabbed trying to stop them and suddenly they're found the next day?
I realise life has higher value than property, the point is they could be taking them of the street for theft before they kill someone.
Something has to be done, this is getting out of hand. Glad I don't live in London but scared this'll spread if it isn't stamped out.

[Renn Sport]

I am lefty love everyone type... cant you bleeding tell?

I don't like this. I don't think anyone does. Lets keep the blame on the criminals and not anyone else as that's just lazy scapegoating.

Also I am pretty ok with any of these guys getting killed or maimed while being chased on a stolen bike. However if one of them wipes out some kids while being pursued or anyone for that matter I am not cool with it.

However I do think this epidemic needs to be stopped and so do these areseholes.

Chase em and if they crash and burn then so be it.

[srob]

I'm still surprised that there's no way of remotely stopping a vehicle if you really, really had to (massive electrical surge or something to end a very dangerous chase). Won't be long until we don't have ECUs in vehicle as they'll constantly talk to 'bases' to optimise performance etc (believe it's being trialled) in which case you could just switch off the ECU. That'd stop 'em

Although of course they could probably also remotely enforce speed limits and stuff...

[vonhosen]

scarble said:

mgv8 said:

scarble said:

If the police can't chase/arrest them for bike theft, how come they can once they murder someone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37358681

Yes I was responding to that.
If you report a bike theft, even in progress, nothing happens because they'll "never be able to catch them"
You get stabbed trying to stop them and suddenly they're found the next day?
I realise life has higher value than property, the point is they could be taking them of the street for theft before they kill someone.
Something has to be done, this is getting out of hand. Glad I don't live in London but scared this'll spread if it isn't stamped out.

If you report a bike theft in progress they'll respond, but once they're riding it the Police's hands are tied.
It's easier for them dealing with the would be thief wielding a knife before they've managed to get on the bike, than it is dealing with a the thief riding the bike because of the rules & regs surrounding it.

[vonhosen]

Renn Sport said:

I am lefty love everyone type... cant you bleeding tell?

I don't like this. I don't think anyone does. Lets keep the blame on the criminals and not anyone else as that's just lazy scapegoating.

Also I am pretty ok with any of these guys getting killed or maimed while being chased on a stolen bike. However if one of them wipes out some kids while being pursued or anyone for that matter I am not cool with it.

However I do think this epidemic needs to be stopped and so do these areseholes.

Chase em and if they crash and burn then so be it.

Statistically it's the people fleeing Police &/or the people in on the vehicle they are fleeing in that are likely to get killed (of course some of those passengers could be said to be innocent casualties).
Inevitably though there is some collateral damage & sometimes the fleeing driver/rider (or even sometimes all be it rarely the chasing Police vehicle) collides with a totally innocent party killing them.

[ShaunTheSheep]

The police were chasing one of the bike thieves (albeit in a car at the time) when he killed the nurse Jill Pirrie in Edinburgh.

That's a tragic death, but in no way attributable to the police. Even though they were pursuing the scroat, it's 100% on him.

I'd happily relax the protection on vehicles failing to stop. If you're on a bike - protective gear or not, and you run for it, you should expect spike strips and contact from pursuing police cars. The threshold for this kind of intervention should be your first traffic violation - exceed the speed limit or run a red in your escape attempt and it's take down time. If you make your escape in a gentlemanly fashion you shouldn't be open to this kind of stop.

That solves the situation where a rider didn't realise they were being instructed to stop or if they're riding to a police station because they think it's a fake cop car or something.

[Superhoop]

vonhosen said:

Statistically it's the people fleeing Police &/or the people in on the vehicle they are fleeing in that are likely to get killed (of course some of those passengers could be said to be innocent casualties).
Inevitably though there is some collateral damage & sometimes the fleeing driver/rider (or even sometimes all be it rarely the chasing Police vehicle) collides with a totally innocent party killing them.

As was the case a couple of weeks ago (coincidentally, in the area where this is occurring) where a young boy and his Aunt were killed while his sisters were also trapped under the car.