RJ Almost got bikejacked
Discussion
Renn Sport said:
We don't just have a problem with our Police. We have a criminal sentencing issue and we have a overall societal issue.
Thus my perfectly civil question to other PHers re influence of Brexit. I firmly believe that there is a connection, others may disagree. Anyway, this is probably the wrong thread, only to say that no I'm not expecting the DM to take over the BBC, etc etc.... 
Renn Sport said:
LOL... Are you having a f
king bubble?! Are you comparing the murderous fking LA Police to our UK Police force? In some weird bent that some LA suburban can leave their backyard unlocked? Here's the news.. we can too here. We just use our locks... when we remember.
I am not one to defend the UK Police as I am not a big fan but you are taking the piss. Compared to the US our lads are freaking amazing!
Crime reduction isn't related to how much fking lethal force is applied otherwise Brazil and South Africa would be utopian.
Many major metropolitan cities have crime. Find a densely populated metropolitan city and you'll find crime. We have a crime wave recently the last few years and the law and crime prevention initiatives are not dealing with it.
We don't just have a problem with our Police. We have a criminal sentencing issue and we have a overall societal issue.
The UK has high levels of petty crime. Stuff gets nicked all the time. The UK also has high levels of assaults and knife crime. The US has high levels of firearms crime, but it is almost exclusively gangbangers shooting other gangbangers. I'm really not concerned with stuff being stolen in the US, or in places like Australia for that matter.king bubble?! Are you comparing the murderous fking LA Police to our UK Police force? In some weird bent that some LA suburban can leave their backyard unlocked? Here's the news.. we can too here. We just use our locks... when we remember. I am not one to defend the UK Police as I am not a big fan but you are taking the piss. Compared to the US our lads are freaking amazing!
Crime reduction isn't related to how much f
king lethal force is applied otherwise Brazil and South Africa would be utopian.Many major metropolitan cities have crime. Find a densely populated metropolitan city and you'll find crime. We have a crime wave recently the last few years and the law and crime prevention initiatives are not dealing with it.
We don't just have a problem with our Police. We have a criminal sentencing issue and we have a overall societal issue.
The culture in thecUK is that if an individual policeman tries to apprehend a criminal and the policeman makes a mistake and the crook gets hurt or if the crook makes a mistake and hurts themselves, then the copper is looking at at least a very unpleasant enquiry and perhaps a criminal investigation lasting years, followed by the possibility of prosecution and jail time. This has nothing to do with packing a 44 magnum like Dirty Harry, it has to do with the UK accepting than when criminals steal things, the responsibility for them being injured if they try to evade arrest is their own, not the police.
Personally I can't blame the police for doing nothing. Why risk going to jail yourself to catch a crook.
Like many others on this forum (and this thread), I am also a copper and a motorbikelist. I also have the pleasure of being able to ride at work, although on mostly ancient machines. I've read this thread from start to finish, having been linked here from elsewhere on the interwebs. All the usual 'views are my own' etc. apply and I'll generally try not to comment on individual cases, other than to say that I was aware of several of the videos already posted.
It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
Deef said:
It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
Very well put!
OK: can you put any kind of time frame on how long the system may take to change? Have we now turned a corner in that so many people are pissed off with the apparent injustice of the current balance, that something will actually change? Is it simply a case of resources? I for one, would be up for tax rises in order to fund the police, & to somehow redress the balance. The question is: how....
Biker 1 said:
Very well put!
OK: can you put any kind of time frame on how long the system may take to change? Have we now turned a corner in that so many people are pissed off with the apparent injustice of the current balance, that something will actually change? Is it simply a case of resources? I for one, would be up for tax rises in order to fund the police, & to somehow redress the balance. The question is: how....
Most people would be looking for the government to spend what it gets better than the current system. £12bn in foreign aid would fix a lot at home as would cutting benefits and health tourism. Running a business I know that all those small bills of a few hundred million here and there, all start to add up and before you know it you've wasted £3.5bn.
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
ashleyman said:
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
The waste that goes on in the NHS & probably most public services I'm guessing is much much worse than even the most pessimistic think. I have no stats to back this up, apart from anecdotal observations when in places like hospitals or local council offices. Look at some of the antique IT 'systems' next time you're at your GP....Biker 1 said:
ashleyman said:
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
The waste that goes on in the NHS & probably most public services I'm guessing is much much worse than even the most pessimistic think. I have no stats to back this up, apart from anecdotal observations when in places like hospitals or local council offices. Look at some of the antique IT 'systems' next time you're at your GP....
Biker 1 said:
ashleyman said:
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
The waste that goes on in the NHS & probably most public services I'm guessing is much much worse than even the most pessimistic think. I have no stats to back this up, apart from anecdotal observations when in places like hospitals or local council offices. Look at some of the antique IT 'systems' next time you're at your GP....The alternative to these is shiny new technology that everyone thinks is brilliant out of the box. Except it isn't, and your local NHS trust goes and overspends 18 MILLION QUID on a patient records system. This wasn't something new - it was customising an existing American system which you might imagine was selected because it a) did a similar job to what we require in the UK and b) was easy to customise. Pissing public money up the wall left right and centre.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-25473...
Recently they just sentenced a Somali Coke and Heroin dealer who was flashing Rolexes, plural, on social media, to a non custodial sentence.
This is why the old bill are not so interested in bike theft, the courts are aware there's no space in the prisons, so it's just softly softly let's hope they don't sue us bs and catch the low hanging fruit, like people who actually do something about it....
This is why the old bill are not so interested in bike theft, the courts are aware there's no space in the prisons, so it's just softly softly let's hope they don't sue us bs and catch the low hanging fruit, like people who actually do something about it....
PurpleTurtle said:
Biker 1 said:
ashleyman said:
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
The waste that goes on in the NHS & probably most public services I'm guessing is much much worse than even the most pessimistic think. I have no stats to back this up, apart from anecdotal observations when in places like hospitals or local council offices. Look at some of the antique IT 'systems' next time you're at your GP....The alternative to these is shiny new technology that everyone thinks is brilliant out of the box. Except it isn't, and your local NHS trust goes and overspends 18 MILLION QUID on a patient records system. This wasn't something new - it was customising an existing American system which you might imagine was selected because it a) did a similar job to what we require in the UK and b) was easy to customise. Pissing public money up the wall left right and centre.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-25473...
I've found an interesting piece from the Telegraph in 2012 which might put the figures in perspective...while a 40+% increase is shocking, it's worth noting the following:
Article here
DTel said:
Research in Police National Computer (PNC) archives, Home Office documents, rider group statistics and information from insurance companies, ACPO Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service and general police records revealed that between 1971-81, nearly 45,000 motorcycles were annually reported stolen to the police and, to date, only half of them have been recovered.
There was a spike between 1981-91, culminating in 115,000 machines being recorded as stolen on the PNC in November 1991.
It was another decade of 30,000-40,000 motorcycles and scooters being reported stolen annually before it was no longer considered an epidemic. However, half of these machines would never be seen again.
In 2001, motorcycle and scooter theft was still running at 35,000 annually but, at last, the number was falling. In the past decade that trend has continued and annual theft reports have fallen to about 22,000 today
A 44% increase on 22000 thefts is still a lower number than 2001's total (and that increase is only in one part of the UK, so not fully representative)There was a spike between 1981-91, culminating in 115,000 machines being recorded as stolen on the PNC in November 1991.
It was another decade of 30,000-40,000 motorcycles and scooters being reported stolen annually before it was no longer considered an epidemic. However, half of these machines would never be seen again.
In 2001, motorcycle and scooter theft was still running at 35,000 annually but, at last, the number was falling. In the past decade that trend has continued and annual theft reports have fallen to about 22,000 today
Article here
Pothole said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Very good article to post Pothole.
It's amazing how often our perceptions don't often mesh with reality.
Thanks. I was just thinking that there must be far more bikes being used to commute into London these days, too, although this is just a perception.It's amazing how often our perceptions don't often mesh with reality.
The method has changed. It used to be bikes were chucked in the back of a van, whereas now the youths push them off with another scooter as we've seen many times in these videos. That never used to happen.
Although figures are supposedly down, I don't really believe it. I know 100% if I didn't lock my bike (with two almaxs) or had a cheap oxford chain on it, it would be gone inside a week.
Although figures are supposedly down, I don't really believe it. I know 100% if I didn't lock my bike (with two almaxs) or had a cheap oxford chain on it, it would be gone inside a week.
Andy XRV said:
Pothole said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Very good article to post Pothole.
It's amazing how often our perceptions don't often mesh with reality.
Thanks. I was just thinking that there must be far more bikes being used to commute into London these days, too, although this is just a perception.It's amazing how often our perceptions don't often mesh with reality.
Deef said:
Like many others on this forum (and this thread), I am also a copper and a motorbikelist. I also have the pleasure of being able to ride at work, although on mostly ancient machines. I've read this thread from start to finish, having been linked here from elsewhere on the interwebs. All the usual 'views are my own' etc. apply and I'll generally try not to comment on individual cases, other than to say that I was aware of several of the videos already posted.
It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
Let's say they get caught and apprehended before jumping back on their ratty scooter, would they end up being prosecuted for the theft they got caught for, or all of the others that they and others have recorded? What about that poor bugger that had a brick lobbed through his car window? It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
Willy Nilly said:
Deef said:
Like many others on this forum (and this thread), I am also a copper and a motorbikelist. I also have the pleasure of being able to ride at work, although on mostly ancient machines. I've read this thread from start to finish, having been linked here from elsewhere on the interwebs. All the usual 'views are my own' etc. apply and I'll generally try not to comment on individual cases, other than to say that I was aware of several of the videos already posted.
It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
Let's say they get caught and apprehended before jumping back on their ratty scooter, would they end up being prosecuted for the theft they got caught for, or all of the others that they and others have recorded? What about that poor bugger that had a brick lobbed through his car window? It is unfair to say that the Police (at least the ones on the street) aren't interested in this sort of thing. Believe me, it frustrates me just as much as it does you that this goes on and that it is such a massive problem. This is my bread and butter, given that I am on one of the few teams to try and stop it, along with the additional crimes that you end up with, including the smash and grabs, street robberies etc. But our hands are very much tied and we simply don't have the resources that we need, although there is some hope on the horizon from that perspective. If we're lucky enough to catch someone, we can put them before the court and it is the sadly woeful justice system that allows them out before I'm even home for tea.
Whilst in an ideal world the blame for any suspects injuries would be solely placed on them, we know that it isn't the case. Despite my various qualifications and months of training, I am held to the same driving standards as any other person on the street. That means, should something go wrong during a pursuit of one of the aspiring footballers, I am the one that gets the blame. I am the one that gets investigated, reported for dangerous driving, and potentially ends up losing my job, licence, and ending up inside for doing what I was paid to do in the first place. It shouldn't be like this, but it is and until it changes (along with sentencing), the situation is unlikely to improve dramatically.
ashleyman said:
It's not going to change anytime soon. You are probably in the minority of people that would support tax rises to fund extra Police.
Most people would be looking for the government to spend what it gets better than the current system. £12bn in foreign aid would fix a lot at home as would cutting benefits and health tourism. Running a business I know that all those small bills of a few hundred million here and there, all start to add up and before you know it you've wasted £3.5bn.
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
As Deef notes, it is not only about police funding. It is about investigating and prosecuting individual police officers when criminals hurt themselves while committing crimes and attempting to evade arrest. In that climate, why should the police act? Most people would be looking for the government to spend what it gets better than the current system. £12bn in foreign aid would fix a lot at home as would cutting benefits and health tourism. Running a business I know that all those small bills of a few hundred million here and there, all start to add up and before you know it you've wasted £3.5bn.
I do wonder what would happen if the UK gov got some auditors in to find ways of saving money like they do in falling corporate companies. What would be their take on the situation and what would be cut and what would stay.
Got one of th motherfkers! 1000 man-points to the geezer in the fluro.
One of the bikes that gets away is a tmax so if they don't use the scooter they've got to find the other losers, god help us.
https://youtu.be/hz_oFzicj7U
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/moment-haveag...
kers! 1000 man-points to the geezer in the fluro.One of the bikes that gets away is a tmax so if they don't use the scooter they've got to find the other losers, god help us.
https://youtu.be/hz_oFzicj7U
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/moment-haveag...
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