Are we seeing the decline of motorcycling in the UK?

[gareth_r]

TheInternet said:

gareth_r said:

The current licensing regime is having the intended effect.

An increase in the number of motorcyclists due to fewer of them being dead? Presumably there are stats for this and the OP's points in some detail.

There are documents on the Government's web site. Unfortunately, I don't currently have a computer that will read them, but I would be very surprised if the annual total of test passes had increased since the new regime was introduced.

Politicians and bureaucrats have no interest in saving your life. They are quite happy to send people into a war zone when they are too young to hold an unrestricted motorcycle licence. Their only interest is looking good to the electorate, and removing motorcyclists is easy way to cut road deaths without affecting any voters who actually matter.

Edited by gareth_r on Thursday 29th September 15:17

[Wooderson]

Quite surprised to see that the pass rate for Mod 1 & 2 have increased since 2009. Anecdotally, my understanding was that test centres had weeds growing and riding schools were shutting up shop every week.

Stats for Mod 1 passes 2009 to 2016



Stats for Mod 2 passes 2009 to 2016

[Birky_41]

I took 10 years away from road bikes and got back into it again last year

Id say other way round - I know loads on the road or recently got back into it

Its tricky for new riders though with this A2 licence thingy

[black-k1]

I am convinced that motorcycling in the UK (and the rest of the Western world) is in decline and has been since the 1970’s/early 80’s. While bike (and clothing, equipment etc.) sales are doing quite well at the moment, they’re nowhere near the sorts of numbers they were in the 70s and 80’s. Worst still is the number of people actually passing their test which is a fraction of what it was in the 70’s and 80’s. The amount of “new blood” coming into motorcycling is way down on what it needs to be for long term interest to remain.

Biking in the UK is being propped up by aging old farts like most of those on here, me included. When we all get too old to ride a motorcycle, the market and motorcycling as a whole, is going to crash through the floor. No pun intended.

The EU, and world position on motorcycling is clear: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/speciali...

With the “highlight” being In the World Report, the World Health Organisation and World Bank have advised that care should be taken to avoid the adoption of policies which could encourage the growth of motorized two-wheeler traffic by giving advantages to motorized two-wheeler users.

I don’t think motorcycling will die tomorrow, or next year, but I would be surprised if it’s still going strong in 25 years’ time.

[Biker 1]

My local multi-franchise dealer (P&H Gatwick) seems to be in rude health; long waiting list for servicing, recent new Honda showroom, always appear to be plenty of punters, although most of them seem to be of a certain age.
PCP I see as being a great idea: I am on to my third car on 3 year deals, & haven't looked back. As far as home mechanics/mods goes, I guess its the same as modern cars: way more technical stuff nowadays that you simply can't fix at home. Its hard enough changing a headlamp bulb on some bikes.
I think motorcycling will actually increase, given cheap financing, new small capacity commuting bikes, better reliability, longer service intervals, better safety aids, more congested roads, & perhaps the dawn of electric machines will see the industry expand further.

[Wooderson]

black-k1 said:

I am convinced that motorcycling in the UK (and the rest of the Western world) is in decline and has been since the 1970’s/early 80’s. While bike (and clothing, equipment etc.) sales are doing quite well at the moment, they’re nowhere near the sorts of numbers they were in the 70s and 80’s. Worst still is the number of people actually passing their test which is a fraction of what it was in the 70’s and 80’s. The amount of “new blood” coming into motorcycling is way down on what it needs to be for long term interest to remain.

Biking in the UK is being propped up by aging old farts like most of those on here, me included. When we all get too old to ride a motorcycle, the market and motorcycling as a whole, is going to crash through the floor. No pun intended.

The EU, and world position on motorcycling is clear: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/speciali...

With the “highlight” being In the World Report, the World Health Organisation and World Bank have advised that care should be taken to avoid the adoption of policies which could encourage the growth of motorized two-wheeler traffic by giving advantages to motorized two-wheeler users.

I don’t think motorcycling will die tomorrow, or next year, but I would be surprised if it’s still going strong in 25 years’ time.

That's exactly the sort of passive manipulation of policy and regulation that is going to kill motorcycling off. An example of not giving an advantage to motorized two-wheeled users is the clusterfk that is motorcycle access to London's bus lanes. Why-oh-why are local authorities allow to individually prescribe their own restrictions? It's frankly amazing that TFL and the Mayor ever signed off of increased access in the first place

[Biker 1]

Wooderson said:

An example of not giving an advantage to motorized two-wheeled users is the clusterfk that is motorcycle access to London's bus lanes. Why-oh-why are local authorities allow to individually prescribe their own restrictions? It's frankly amazing that TFL and the Mayor ever signed off of increased access in the first place

I ride up to 'The Smoke' on a Sunday morning maybe two or three times a year, just to see the sites. Takes about an hour to reach Westminster bridge. I can't understand why some bus lanes are open to motorcycles, & others are not. Signage can be patchy & there are cameras everywhere. Strange.

[Wooderson]

Biker 1 said:

I ride up to 'The Smoke' on a Sunday morning maybe two or three times a year, just to see the sites. Takes about an hour to reach Westminster bridge. I can't understand why some bus lanes are open to motorcycles, & others are not. Signage can be patchy & there are cameras everywhere. Strange.

TFL have control over 'Red Routes' and are quite liberal about bike access to bus lanes, but the majority of London's roads are Local Authority controlled and each one has their own mandate for access and regulation. Its bonkers and infuriating - and if anything makes it more dangerous with dangerous weaves in and out when you realise a camera is about to get you.

[SAS Tom]

I think a lot of you are missing something out. No there aren't a lot of young people riding bikes but there are a lot of people now reaching middle age who are going out and doing their test etc. I can't see that side of things changing much. Just because people aren't riding bikes now doesn't mean they won't later.

[BuzzBravado]

black-k1 said:

The amount of “new blood” coming into motorcycling is way down on what it needs to be for long term interest to remain.

I'd say that is 100% the fault of scaremongering. When i was adamant to do my lessons and get my bike licence it was met with nothing but negativity from everyone around me, to the point in a sadistic way some were looking to prove me right by me joining the statistics and saying "serves him right".

I passed my test expecting to be dicing with death every trip and so far it has been far from it. People are often surprised when they ask how its going and i say i just wish i done it sooner. For a car fanatic my priorities with free time revolves around bike.

I personally think kids today should get a few years driving in before jumping on a bike. An 18 year old me on a bike probably wouldn't be the smartest idea.

[BuzzBravado]

SAS Tom said:

I think a lot of you are missing something out. No there aren't a lot of young people riding bikes but there are a lot of people now reaching middle age who are going out and doing their test etc. I can't see that side of things changing much. Just because people aren't riding bikes now doesn't mean they won't later.

Aren't those born again bikers though, so just returning? Most old folk i know that ride done so when they were young too.

[McGtfour]

Having just passed my Module 2 motorcycle test the other week I can hopefully offer a perspective from a new rider.

From my experience i found that their are not a shortage of riding schools out there and all offer reasonably good deals on test packages etc...and from my experience offered a safe and productive way of learning and importantly support when things went wrong.

The theory test was the usual joke that it is with the car one of randomly clicking a computer mouse.

The module 1 test i passed first time and i did feel that was a good way of testing a riders ability to be in (safe) control of a large motorbike. I had only previously been on 125's so this was a big change and although the chances of me needing to perfectly park my front wheel only in a small square having swerved through a cone are unlikely it did feel like the first step to proving you should be on a bike.

I failed my module 2 twice and it was this test (unsurprisingly) that i had issue with. There is culture drilled into your head that you need to show you're 'making progress' as you are riding a fast bike and that you may as well be in a car if you're not 'making progress' but you have to be so, so careful that you're not making too much progress and come across as cocky or not obeying every road sign and lane the UK has to offer.

I failed one test on letting someone out who was joining on the sliproad, by carefully indicating into the clear lane to my right, letting the car join and then coming back in. I was told i wasn't 'positive' enough and i should have 'made progress' to get past him or, alternatively stood my ground as its my right of way not his??? Hmm don't fancy a battle with a car thanks.

When i queried this above saying that I was doing 70mph and 'making progress' would have seen me doing 75-80 and therefore breaking the speed limit i was advised Mr...there is an element of 'leniency' I also got a minor on this test for doing 32mph in a 30mph....is it just me?

There was also so many discrepancies with what 'goes' and what doesn't. I couldn't work out what the formula was to pass.

All of my examiners apart from the last one had a poor attitude towards the whole thing, IMO most people choose to have a bike license as opposed to a car license which is often classed as a necessity in life and yet it felt like you were proving yourself in court, the manner in which they spoke, dealt with your failures post test and how they initiated the tests just put you in an uneasy mood.

It also cost me a small fortune with a retest being £225 (costs for the bike schools time + test fees etc) so it can quickly mount up.

I think the module 1 test is great for filtering out people who can't control a larger motorbike as without being harsh you really need to be in control of something like that both physically and mentally.

The module 2 felt like ticking boxes; much like the car test, where in my eyes it should be 'right let's go for a ride, prove to me you're confident and safe' yes you may make the odd mistake but you didn't fall off and you didn't cause any accidents or potential harm.

[SAS Tom]

BuzzBravado said:

SAS Tom said:

I think a lot of you are missing something out. No there aren't a lot of young people riding bikes but there are a lot of people now reaching middle age who are going out and doing their test etc. I can't see that side of things changing much. Just because people aren't riding bikes now doesn't mean they won't later.

Aren't those born again bikers though, so just returning? Most old folk i know that ride done so when they were young too.

Many are yes but there's also a lot going to do their test. No figures or anything just the experience in the shop over the year compared to last. The local riding schools all seem to be happy with the amount of customers they have.

[LuS1fer]

If it is, I think the ever increasing traffic will eventually draw people back, like the Honda MSX has, to some degree.
However, I think what is needed is a small commuter with a roof, like the old BMW C1 with an electric motor.

Then I googled the BMW C1 and this electric prototype pops up - you could have an extended roof over those rails.


The traffic gets worse every year so there is bound to come a time when they need to cater to a fast lane for motorbikes.

Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 29th September 17:57

[Biker 1]

LuS1fer said:

If it is, I think the ever increasing traffic will eventually draw people back, like the Honda MSX has, to some degree.
However, I think what is needed is a small commuter with a roof, like the old BMW C1 with an electric motor.

Then I googled the BMW C1 and this electric prototype pops up - you could have an extended roof over those rails.


The traffic gets worse every year so there is bound to come a time when they need to cater to a fast lane for motorbikes.

Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 29th September 17:57

I can't stand that sort of thing - personal taste I guess. However, an electric bike that actually rides & looks like a motorcycle gets my vote. I quite like the Brammo, but I think its going to be a few years yet until battery technology is properly viable & affordable, & there will be an equivalent of, say, an R1, with similar range as the petrol version. Recharge speed is critical.

[Pothole]

av185 said:

Wooderson said:

-
- Sharing the road with inattentive drivers - is getting farcical!

You appear to have excluded the many inattentive and moronic RIDERS from your comprehensive list.

OK, I'll bite. I have yet to have one of these risk my life.

[croyde]

The meteoric rise of bike theft in London put me off riding to and from various places of work, although I held on to the bike, a Street Triple, until after the umpteenth theft attempt and subsequent cost to me for damage repair made me sell it back to the dealer for a pittance.

I've ridden since 1979, was a bike courier in the early 80s, and never had a problem with theft in this country until the past 7 years. Was it the Street Triple?

Losing that freedom of being able to just jump on it and thumb the starter, spoiled it for me.

Carrying massive chains and big locks kinda destroys the moment.

Currently have a Vespa 300, also a thief magnet, which I barely use as I have moved out of London, but looking for something more capable of the commute and unnoticed by scum.

[Pothole]

croyde said:

The meteoric rise of bike theft in London put me off riding to and from various places of work, although I held on to the bike, a Street Triple, until after the umpteenth theft attempt and subsequent cost to me for damage repair made me sell it back to the dealer for a pittance.

I've ridden since 1979, was a bike courier in the early 80s, and never had a problem with theft in this country until the past 7 years. Was it the Street Triple?

Losing that freedom of being able to just jump on it and thumb the starter, spoiled it for me.

Carrying massive chains and big locks kinda destroys the moment.

Currently have a Vespa 300, also a thief magnet, which I barely use as I have moved out of London, but looking for something more capable of the commute and unnoticed by scum.

I found my bigger, older, less popular superbikes were almost invisible to thieves (CBR1000FM and RF900R)

[WaferThinHam]

SAS Tom said:

As many people here know I work in a bike clothing shop and I would say that there is an increase. We've had a massive increase in business this year over last. It has felt like everyone has finally got disposable income again and so biking has been possible for people.

As many people say it is very much something older people do. We see a lot of middle aged blokes doing their test then straight out to buy a new GS.

I also work in the industry and yes it would certainly seem that it's recovered somewhat from the recession. I think the availability of finance has helped massively. The amount of stuff we sell for new, or nearly new bikes is staggering. We also sell a lot of stuff for bikes from the mid nineties. Although demand for the pre 1990 stuff is generally fairly small now. I'd say that most of our business is 2010 machines an onwards.

I also think if the government altered the licensing system we would see a lot more people on bikes. With car insurance getting ever more expensive, motorcycles are a real alternative for a lot of people.

Edited by WaferThinHam on Thursday 29th September 19:22

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say it's on the increase but I'd say the number big bike sales has dropped.