Lorries cause more cycling accidents
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/30/lo...
So 58% of all cycling accidents with vehicles are with HGVs etc yet they represent 4% of the vehicles on the UK roads.
I'm sure and hope it's easily possible to further reduce car and bike accidents further however surely there is a big easy win here with HGv?are the accidents also not much worse for injuries/death with HGVs over cars?
I wonder if the solution is to enforce HGVs to be mainly run at night 8pm-5am clearing congestion and also I doubt too many cyclists would be on our roads during those hours. Have dramatically cheaper VED for those vehicles to use at night ditto insurance possibly govt subsidised will be vastly cheaper than buying new roads as instead we'd be buying space on existing roads a win win.
So 58% of all cycling accidents with vehicles are with HGVs etc yet they represent 4% of the vehicles on the UK roads.
I'm sure and hope it's easily possible to further reduce car and bike accidents further however surely there is a big easy win here with HGv?are the accidents also not much worse for injuries/death with HGVs over cars?
I wonder if the solution is to enforce HGVs to be mainly run at night 8pm-5am clearing congestion and also I doubt too many cyclists would be on our roads during those hours. Have dramatically cheaper VED for those vehicles to use at night ditto insurance possibly govt subsidised will be vastly cheaper than buying new roads as instead we'd be buying space on existing roads a win win.
I wonder in how many of those accidents - the cyclists behaviour was a large contributory factor (i.e. Riding up the inside of a HGV making a wide turn)?
I'm in London at the moment and the cyclists behaviour is shocking. We came out of our hotel last night - crossed the road at pelican crossing in order to catch a cab on the opposite side. Must have taken all of 30 seconds - yet within that time I saw two cyclists 'filtering' through the traffic at speed, running the red light and weaving through the pedestrians who were crossing.
I'm in London at the moment and the cyclists behaviour is shocking. We came out of our hotel last night - crossed the road at pelican crossing in order to catch a cab on the opposite side. Must have taken all of 30 seconds - yet within that time I saw two cyclists 'filtering' through the traffic at speed, running the red light and weaving through the pedestrians who were crossing.
KrazyIvan said:
Being involved and be the cause are not the same thing. Your thread title is deliberately misleading, and points to the "victim" mentality too many cyclists have.
I'm no cyclist. However the worst that can happen to a car or kitty is a dent or scratch or smashed screen.
Whereas the cyclist impacting a vehicle could be fatal and at the least will cause actual harm.
Welshbeef said:
KrazyIvan said:
Being involved and be the cause are not the same thing. Your thread title is deliberately misleading, and points to the "victim" mentality too many cyclists have.
I'm no cyclist. However the worst that can happen to a car or kitty is a dent or scratch or smashed screen.
Whereas the cyclist impacting a vehicle could be fatal and at the least will cause actual harm.
Better design of both trucks and the roads would help, but then education of the cyclist on road safety should be equally as important.
KrazyIvan said:
I don't disagree that more should be done to reduce this number, but I think it would be very short sighted to only look a one side as the cause and solution to the problem.
Better design of both trucks and the roads would help, but then education of the cyclist on road safety should be equally as important.
Precisely this.Better design of both trucks and the roads would help, but then education of the cyclist on road safety should be equally as important.
So much focus has been placed on motorists over the past couple of decades - perhaps some effort should be put into changing behaviours of other road users as part of a holistic approach.
That said - the OPs suggestion does have merit. Moving HGV traffic to off peak hours where possible would bring many benefits.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 1st October 09:12
Same shot, same sources, again and again and again!
Overnight deliveries will cause noise at antisocial hours and raise the prices of goods in the shops to cover extra shifts. It would cost us all nothing for the cyclists to make their journeys at night while the roads are empty, but strangely they aren't volunteering.
Overnight deliveries will cause noise at antisocial hours and raise the prices of goods in the shops to cover extra shifts. It would cost us all nothing for the cyclists to make their journeys at night while the roads are empty, but strangely they aren't volunteering.
Moonhawk said:
Precisely this.
So much focus has been placed on motorists over the past couple of decades - perhaps some effort should be put into changing behaviours of other road users as part of a holistic approach.
Driverless cars/fully automated is the long term solution. You'd have a single standard or road skill not what we currently have from superb to utterly lethal idiotic driving. So much focus has been placed on motorists over the past couple of decades - perhaps some effort should be put into changing behaviours of other road users as part of a holistic approach.
Yes, maybe they represent just 4% of all the circulating vehicles but they spent a lot of time driving around cities. People use car to get to work, stay 8 hours there and then come back. Many probably have just a 1 hour roundtrip on city streets every day, maybe less. A small van making deliveries could spend on city roads easily 5 hours in a day.
Also often van have access to areas where cars are not allowed all day, in city centres, where on the other hand there are more cyclists around.
Lorries cause more cycling accidents but the 4% is misleading.
Also often van have access to areas where cars are not allowed all day, in city centres, where on the other hand there are more cyclists around.
Lorries cause more cycling accidents but the 4% is misleading.
Edited by matsoc on Saturday 1st October 09:17
KrazyIvan said:
Being involved and be the cause are not the same thing. Your thread title is deliberately misleading, and points to the "victim" mentality too many cyclists have.
This... Surely the title should read, cyclists cause more cycling accidents if it's purely based on the vehicle types involved.. As unless I'm mistaken, 100% of cycling accidents involve a cyclist? And yes I do ride a bike.
I would almost bet that most these accidents are caused by the cyclist riding like an idiot. For some reason they think creeping up the inside of a 40 tonne lorry which is turning left is a bright idea (I should note they do this to cars too in London, nearly nailed three meself in just one journey)... Pick a busy street in London, and stand and watch, you will be absolutely astounded at what cyclists do.
ETA - I really think the Mods ought to edit the title to suggest lorries are involved NOT cause.
ETA - I really think the Mods ought to edit the title to suggest lorries are involved NOT cause.
Edited by Jasandjules on Saturday 1st October 09:49
This was on LBC yesterday.
Some interesting suggestions were made, the idea of having dedicated times for cyclists and HGVs for example.
Also someone made the point that whilst there are of course some appalling HGV drivers out there, you don't just get in HGV and start driving, you have to spend thousands and do some significant amount of training to be a Class 1 HGV driver whilst anyone can walk into the local Halfords and ride out and be on the roads with no accountability to anybody.
Education seems to be the key here on both sides, my own feeling is that "blaming" lorry drivers is the simple option because they're the one driving 30 tons of truck.
Slapping on a few more mirrors only goes so far.
Some interesting suggestions were made, the idea of having dedicated times for cyclists and HGVs for example.
Also someone made the point that whilst there are of course some appalling HGV drivers out there, you don't just get in HGV and start driving, you have to spend thousands and do some significant amount of training to be a Class 1 HGV driver whilst anyone can walk into the local Halfords and ride out and be on the roads with no accountability to anybody.
Education seems to be the key here on both sides, my own feeling is that "blaming" lorry drivers is the simple option because they're the one driving 30 tons of truck.
Slapping on a few more mirrors only goes so far.
I cycle a fair bit in the Peak District- a bad combination of winding roads and heavy aggregate trucks. These are roads I have enjoyed making progress on in some quick cars over the years and know how limited clean overtaking spaces are even in something with punch- nevermind a fully loaded artic.
When I get a truck behind me I take it as a given there is a guy in there who is just trying to do his day job and pay the bills without killing anyone- I see it as my job to manage that overtake as best I can and quite often slow slightly and pull in at those points where its clear ahead and I know the driver will be lining up for the overtake. Almost always I am repaid with a well judged and safe overtake with loads of room given (as well as not being killed obviously).
The number of cyclists I see around me who have no idea how dangerous these things are and how hard the driver is having to work to make that safe overtake is beyond me- it doesn't suprise me they are involved in such a high % of deaths for this reason alone.
When I get a truck behind me I take it as a given there is a guy in there who is just trying to do his day job and pay the bills without killing anyone- I see it as my job to manage that overtake as best I can and quite often slow slightly and pull in at those points where its clear ahead and I know the driver will be lining up for the overtake. Almost always I am repaid with a well judged and safe overtake with loads of room given (as well as not being killed obviously).
The number of cyclists I see around me who have no idea how dangerous these things are and how hard the driver is having to work to make that safe overtake is beyond me- it doesn't suprise me they are involved in such a high % of deaths for this reason alone.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Slapping on a few more mirrors only goes so far.
Plus, this is ALL placing responsibility upon the Lorry Driver. What about preventing cyclists from going up the inside of lorries etc? Or in the one I saw, attempting to overtake a bus turning right.......... I am willing to bet if cyclists weren't so f***ng stupid with their riding around big heavy machines, less would get hurt. It frankly amazes me when I see what they do, when I am a cyclist I have this idea I am a squishy bag of water and the 2 tonne metal thing may not end well if we meet... When I am a driver or pedestrian I see cyclists who appear to think they are made of adamantium and will simply regenerate in the event of being hit...motco said:
I think that the OP's idea is worth considering. If it resulted in even a small reduction in HGV traffic in peak times it would be a benefit.
Are you out of your mind? There is a reason an LGV is on the road at any given time and that is because it has somewhere it needs to be.
Every truck you see on the road has a driver, maybe two. Someone loaded it, someone will unload it. A business needed the truck to take their products away and one at the other end is waiting for the truck to make a delivery. If you suddenly outlaw LGV's during the day, who is going to be on hand to drive and service these vehicles at night? Is there even enough time during the night to move everything about that needs moving.
As a cyclist, anecdotally, I don't have much trouble with trucks. They're big, you can hear them approaching and they generally driven well. I have much more trouble with old duffers mis judging how much room they need to overtake me.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own safety, if you nip up the side of a truck whether you are on a push bike, motorbike or even a car and you haven't made eye contact with the driver, you are an idiot.
The number killed and injured is very low given the piss poor standards of most muppets on bike in town. Given the number of red lights run, jumping off the pavement in front of vehicles , just stopping anywhere to check a phone and the deliberate idiots of actively place themselves in huge danger by cycling between two trucks and large vehicles with inches to spare on the assumption they will be seen, I'm amazed there isn't more dead.
Deptford Draylons said:
The number killed and injured is very low given the piss poor standards of most muppets on bike in town. Given the number of red lights run, jumping off the pavement in front of vehicles , just stopping anywhere to check a phone and the deliberate idiots of actively place themselves in huge danger by cycling between two trucks and large vehicles with inches to spare on the assumption they will be seen, I'm amazed there isn't more dead.
Who cares? Its natural selection.Being what I consider to be a safe cyclist, the only thing that concerns me is that their behaviour undoubtedly causes some dicks to inflict punishment passes on me in retaliation.
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