New (to me) V4

[Steve Bass]

Biker's Nemesis said:

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

I've seen 4 RSV-4's drop valves, hopefully you've caught it and saved a load of heart ache.

My first RSV4 '11 model did exactly this. Within 1200 kms from new the valve clearances were too tight and it snapped a valve, destroying the engines.
There seemed to be a fundamental issue with the QA somewhere in the process. It might even be the markings vs reality of the shims. So double DOUBLE check with a micrometer that the face value IS the real value.
After 2011 the quality improved massively and my next 2 RSV's were faultless. (other than the '12 needing a coolant pipe recall)

[Ho Lee Kau]

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

TYPICAL RSV4 problem, the valves. Was just reading Aprilia Forum two days ago. The clearances HAVE to be checked at first service, the gurus suggest, but even that does not really help, some people dropped valves anyway, on bikes that are not even 3000km old. And these are not old models, these are 2016-..., for crying out loud! After all these years Aprilia still hasn't fixed the problem. On these bikes recommendation by mechanics who service RSV4 is to check valve clearances every 2000km, just to be sure.
Exactly these kind of problems stop my desire to buy RSV4 dead in its tracks. Every time I decide to get one, I log on a forum and there are fresh cases of expensive and time consuming problems. One can get extended warranty, in fact, that is the only bike that I saw offered with extended warranty in second-hand adds, without it I wouldn't touch RSV4 with a pole, but the gamble is there that you lose a season because of bike standing in service.

Damn shame, really

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Monday 17th April 07:30

[Steve Bass]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Remember that those proposing such intervals are those that make their living from servicing them

In my experience (with a total of 3 RSV4's through to a 2016 model) the 2011's are a worry. After 2012, things got MUCH better and I'm unsure of any later bikes having the same problems. Not only were my last 2 bikes faultless but those of a couple of acquaintances with 2012 to 2015 bikes echoed my experiences. And these were not sunday garage queens, but bikes that lived life on the limiter, did lots of TD's and were not generally treated with kid gloves.
Would I have another??? In a heartbeat.
As is often the case in such matters, the truth can be very opaque and elusive.....
As for parts availability, Piaggio do have a lot to improve on in that regard.

[Walter Sobchak]

Now you've got me worried, mines just turned 12k so the clearances are due and it's going in next week, if it's an APRC does that mean it's a 12MY bike?.

[Steve Bass]

Walter Sobchak said:

Now you've got me worried, mines just turned 12k so the clearances are due and it's going in next week, if it's an APRC does that mean it's a 12MY bike?.

I would say if it's got to 12k, you don't have a problem....
MY11 onwards is APRC I believe.

[m9rko]

Steve Bass said:

Walter Sobchak said:

Now you've got me worried, mines just turned 12k so the clearances are due and it's going in next week, if it's an APRC does that mean it's a 12MY bike?.

I would say if it's got to 12k, you don't have a problem....
MY11 onwards is APRC I believe.

Mine got to 15k before stting itself

I think the problem is still relitively uncommon, in the grand scheme of things, but all you need to do is google 'RSV4 valve' to see how many bikes (from 2009 to 2016) have had valves go. Best thing you can do is look after it, ride and enjoy it... And hope you're not one of the unlucky ones

[R1 Dave]

Ho Lee Kau said:

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

TYPICAL RSV4 problem, the valves. Was just reading Aprilia Forum two days ago. The clearances HAVE to be checked at first service, the gurus suggest, but even that does not really help, some people dropped valves anyway, on bikes that are not even 3000km old. And these are not old models, these are 2016-..., for crying out loud! After all these years Aprilia still hasn't fixed the problem. On these bikes recommendation by mechanics who service RSV4 is to check valve clearances every 2000km, just to be sure.
Exactly these kind of problems stop my desire to buy RSV4 dead in its tracks. Every time I decide to get one, I log on a forum and there are fresh cases of expensive and time consuming problems. One can get extended warranty, in fact, that is the only bike that I saw offered with extended warranty in second-hand adds, without it I wouldn't touch RSV4 with a pole, but the gamble is there that you lose a season because of bike standing in service.

Damn shame, really

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Monday 17th April 07:30

Is this in your experience or just stuff you've seen on forums? If the latter then it's difficult to judge how much credence to give the claims.

[R1 Dave]

Walter Sobchak said:

Now you've got me worried, mines just turned 12k so the clearances are due and it's going in next week, if it's an APRC does that mean it's a 12MY bike?.

They should check the Valve clearances at 12k service, as you say, it's due. Mine was done a little early (11.5k) and needed very little adjustment. Mine was an 09 original demo bike that had been thrashed (and I suspected, dropped) at the rainy Donington launch day by a bunch of journos so wasn't the best example.

[Walter Sobchak]

R1 Dave said:

They should check the Valve clearances at 12k service, as you say, it's due. Mine was done a little early (11.5k) and needed very little adjustment. Mine was an 09 original demo bike that had been thrashed (and I suspected, dropped) at the rainy Donington launch day by a bunch of journos so wasn't the best example.

I think it might have had them checked on a previous service too but I'm going to get them checked again as they're due, it doesn't sound like a bag of spanners or anything so hopefully they're alright.
My last RSV4 came with them out of adjustment straight from the factory, it seems to be a very hit and miss thing for them, mines only got another season to go before swapping to the new Ducati if rumours are true.

[R1 Dave]

Walter Sobchak said:

R1 Dave said:

They should check the Valve clearances at 12k service, as you say, it's due. Mine was done a little early (11.5k) and needed very little adjustment. Mine was an 09 original demo bike that had been thrashed (and I suspected, dropped) at the rainy Donington launch day by a bunch of journos so wasn't the best example.

I think it might have had them checked on a previous service too but I'm going to get them checked again as they're due, it doesn't sound like a bag of spanners or anything so hopefully they're alright.
My last RSV4 came with them out of adjustment straight from the factory, it seems to be a very hit and miss thing for them, mines only got another season to go before swapping to the new Ducati if rumours are true.

It's a shame their quality control is poor as the bikes are fabulous. If I hadn't lost trust in mine I wouldn't have sold it, it was wonderful but I'm riding to the TT this year and just didn't fancy losing my ferry and accommodation money (and missing out) if the Ape broke down.

By comparison I've had Yamahas for over 10 years and the only issue I've ever had was an exup Valve which seized up and that was because I didn't touch it for 5 years, it was on a 28k mile bike so not unreasonable for it to seize.
The quality of the bikes is better too IMHO.

[rodericb]

What is it with 'the valves' exactly? Valve seat recession?

[Ho Lee Kau]

R1 Dave said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

TYPICAL RSV4 problem, the valves. Was just reading Aprilia Forum two days ago. The clearances HAVE to be checked at first service, the gurus suggest, but even that does not really help, some people dropped valves anyway, on bikes that are not even 3000km old. And these are not old models, these are 2016-..., for crying out loud! After all these years Aprilia still hasn't fixed the problem. On these bikes recommendation by mechanics who service RSV4 is to check valve clearances every 2000km, just to be sure.
Exactly these kind of problems stop my desire to buy RSV4 dead in its tracks. Every time I decide to get one, I log on a forum and there are fresh cases of expensive and time consuming problems. One can get extended warranty, in fact, that is the only bike that I saw offered with extended warranty in second-hand adds, without it I wouldn't touch RSV4 with a pole, but the gamble is there that you lose a season because of bike standing in service.

Damn shame, really

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Monday 17th April 07:30

Is this in your experience or just stuff you've seen on forums? If the latter then it's difficult to judge how much credence to give the claims.

I don't want that kind of "experience", but I do read user forums, or you mean they are all lying? Like the m9rko here?
You know why after all this time and all the scare stories that I've read about RSV4 (and I've read a lot, because I spent a lot of time on forums, because I really like the RSV4 approach to sportbike) I still consider it a possible ownership proposition for me? Because I doubt the stories a little bit, like "well, it was a track bike", "well, the guy did not maintain it properly" etc, but the facts are out there, and playing Russian roulette....5 years ago I would have done that just like that, nowadays I am a bit more cautious.

Shame about RSV4 quality, really, I so want to have that bike...

[Ho Lee Kau]

Walter Sobchak said:

R1 Dave said:

They should check the Valve clearances at 12k service, as you say, it's due. Mine was done a little early (11.5k) and needed very little adjustment. Mine was an 09 original demo bike that had been thrashed (and I suspected, dropped) at the rainy Donington launch day by a bunch of journos so wasn't the best example.

I think it might have had them checked on a previous service too but I'm going to get them checked again as they're due, it doesn't sound like a bag of spanners or anything so hopefully they're alright.
My last RSV4 came with them out of adjustment straight from the factory, it seems to be a very hit and miss thing for them, mines only got another season to go before swapping to the new Ducati if rumours are true.

case in point

ffs, Aprilia. :-(

I've read a post by some guy who bought his 2015/16 RSV4 for track, the fork leaked 200km off dealership floor. There were other problems. He took it apart, the fairing etc and later wrote that some parts were put together seems like with a hammer, like in a small custom shop, not a factory. I mean, why would these guys lie, they put their money where their mouth is. Pity, damn pity, imho, RSV4 is the most exciting superbike in existence. :-(

[Ho Lee Kau]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Ho Lee Kau]

R1 Dave said:

It's a shame their quality control is poor as the bikes are fabulous. If I hadn't lost trust in mine I wouldn't have sold it, it was wonderful but I'm riding to the TT this year and just didn't fancy losing my ferry and accommodation money (and missing out) if the Ape broke down.

By comparison I've had Yamahas for over 10 years and the only issue I've ever had was an exup Valve which seized up and that was because I didn't touch it for 5 years, it was on a 28k mile bike so not unreasonable for it to seize.
The quality of the bikes is better too IMHO.

Case in point #2.
I know R1 had gearbox problems, but I rather take R1 to TT than 2015-... RSV4RF, just because of probabilities. Again, shame, such damn shame I am ready to cry (I had a couple of brewsky , though, otherwise I am macho )

My second CBR954RR had 4700km on the clock when I bought it in 2015, that is 2002 model. The bike stood 13 years almost without a movement. Last ride was like 2010, and I still did mountain pass with 2010 oil in it and it was running like a champ! It's not like I want to promote 954RR, even though IMHO it's a magnificent bike (bar the 3000rpm throttle jerk, but that's old school direct injection for you), what I want to say is that I put FULL trust into that bike when I go on Alpine pass riding on weekend.

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Monday 17th April 14:25

[R1 Dave]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong and the reality is you don't know if you are either, that's why I find some of your posts a little bizarre. I may be wrong but you seem to trawl forums and then post what you find as if they were your own experiences.

I've never owned, e.g a Harley; if there were a thread about them on here I wouldn't spend hours researching them and then post as if I knew about them.

I just find it a bit strange. Maybe it's just me.

[Steve Bass]

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

Hey M9rko. Sorry I missed this post.
From what you have described I doubt very much that the initial problem is with the valves.
If someone has been in there doing a valve service then I'd but they've got it wrong and mismesured the required shims or used incorrect ones.
However the alarm you're saying "unexpected air in manifold" is either a pipe come off,a defective or disconnected sensor. It's doubly suspicious if someone was messing around with the air box
So speak with Amauri from the AF1 forum and he'll point you straight to the likely problem.
And get the valves redone asap!!!

[m9rko]

Steve Bass said:

m9rko said:

It lasted less than 500 miles

Rode to St Mary's the other week, the long way, 85 flawless miles. Parked for 20 mins. Started it and the bike started blipping the throttle on it's own and URGENT SERVICE appears on the dash. Sounds like a sack of st. Got it home in a van, bought diagnostic cables, error was 'unexpected air delivery to rear cylinders'. Checked all the easy stuff - no faults found. Rear valve cover off and... all 4 inlet valves have zero clearance. I can't wiggle the 0.05mm guage through the gap. Less than 500 miles ago they had between 0.1mm and 0.15mm. Going to need engine out and heads off to see whats up. Mother fker

Hey M9rko. Sorry I missed this post.
From what you have described I doubt very much that the initial problem is with the valves.
If someone has been in there doing a valve service then I'd but they've got it wrong and mismesured the required shims or used incorrect ones.
However the alarm you're saying "unexpected air in manifold" is either a pipe come off,a defective or disconnected sensor. It's doubly suspicious if someone was messing around with the air box
So speak with Amauri from the AF1 forum and he'll point you straight to the likely problem.
And get the valves redone asap!!!

Hey. When the valve checks were last done, no adjustments or shims were needed. All they did was check the clearences, confirm all were within tolerance, and put the covers back on. I actually had the airbox off again after that, as I fitted a billet aluminum coolant manifold.

When the bike broke down 500 miles later and I got that error code (P0210 by the way), first thing I checked was for vaccuum leaks (split or disconnected hoses). I swapped the front and rear MAP sensors to see if the fault carried (it didn't). After that I changed for a new MAP sensor. After each attempted fix I cleared the code, but each time the bike ran like absolute st and threw the same code. I'm absolutely sure there are no issues with the MAP sensors and that there are no leaks coming from anywhere.

It was then suggested by someone on AF1 that incorrect valve clearances have caused the same error (as if the valves are tight, the air pressure is wrong in that cylinder). That's when I found that the inlet valves were all tight.

Amauri is replying to my post on AF1 now. Seems to think that someone fked up the readings 500 miles ago, he says there's no way they can all go from within tolerance to tight in that mileage. Hard to imagine they got it so wrong - it's not a difficult thing to put a feeler guage through a gap and record the clearance!

[Walter Sobchak]

R1 Dave said:

It's a shame their quality control is poor as the bikes are fabulous. If I hadn't lost trust in mine I wouldn't have sold it, it was wonderful but I'm riding to the TT this year and just didn't fancy losing my ferry and accommodation money (and missing out) if the Ape broke down.

By comparison I've had Yamahas for over 10 years and the only issue I've ever had was an exup Valve which seized up and that was because I didn't touch it for 5 years, it was on a 28k mile bike so not unreasonable for it to seize.
The quality of the bikes is better too IMHO.

I agree, their quality control is poor, their parts supply and dealer network is poor, overall I've found their actual reliability good though, the trouble is if you do need anything for them it can be a wait and hassle to get.
I've had mostly Hondas and Yamahas before and you just didn't come across these issues, can't blame you for changing to the new R1 it's a brilliant bike!, I considered it myself and the new Fireblade, just have decided to wait and see if Ducati release this V4 next year and if so might move to that instead, as from what I've heard Ducati parts supply and quality control is far ahead of Aprilia, although not quite as good as the big 4.

[Ho Lee Kau]

R1 Dave said:

I'm not saying you're right or wrong and the reality is you don't know if you are either, that's why I find some of your posts a little bizarre. I may be wrong but you seem to trawl forums and then post what you find as if they were your own experiences.

I've never owned, e.g a Harley; if there were a thread about them on here I wouldn't spend hours researching them and then post as if I knew about them.

I just find it a bit strange. Maybe it's just me.

No, I never steal others' experiences, I always state that I've read something or heard or seen.
You are surely entitled to your opinion.
If you feel I am bizarre, well, some people here think I am a dikk, fair enough, that's their opinion.
I just said, as always, FOR ME, reading about all these problems on RSV4, I do not feel confident buying this amazing bike.
I've always research before purchase, I knew that for K6 I would need to work on the clutch, but that's simple and cheap. ¨
I did not buy 2006 Fireblade because I've read about generator problems that affect some of them, and my Honda mechanics warned me about this, 2500CHF to replace, I did not feel like chancing it.

See, I am not bizarre at all, just meticulous.

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Monday 17th April 18:22