2017 GSXR 1000R
Discussion
Sat on all of the litre bikes today a the Excel show.
My thoughts on the GSXR compared to others.
Honda Blade SP - seat is rock hard - plasticky quality - disappointed at the price point as an existing Blade owner. Fairing too small, TFT is tiny.
Ducati 1299 - second most comfy litre bike, best looking.
Aprilia RF RSV4 - still seems to have poor detailing and quite a fussy design. Once again, show bike looked very second hand from just having people crawling all over it. Actually feels quite spacious but bars too low.
Yamaha R1 - Not really comfy, does nothing for me. The R1M has some lovely carbon, but £20k and the GPS thing looks gash. Details ok-ish. Frame's casting is quite rough
BMW S1000RR - pretty good package, but the seat to knee distance is too small for me. With some lower rear sets this could be the comfiest 1000.
GSXR1000R - Most comfy 1000 by some margin just sitting on it. It manages to be tiny, but spacious. Definitely the most practical litre sports bike. The guy on the stand also seemed quite confident it will be the strongest engine of the litre bikes for stomp and be a match for the BM at the top. The black and blue colours are ace too on the R (not matt black non-R. They've nicked the R1 shade of blue but the wheels look nice rather than rough cast and cheap like the R1s/MT10.
Downsides though - speaking the guy, anti-wheelie is only off if TC is off. They are tied together, although some wheelie is allowed in the low TC settings. This is a bit of an issue for me, as I will have to run it with TC off which kind of defeats the point if spending £16k on a tech fest bike. I want zero wheelie control, but would be nice to have a go at exploiting the TC a bit. Secondly, you can see why it is priced below the competition. There are some really dodgy details, like the water pump location and cohesion, and the way the tank cover bolts. Like they styled it and then the fasteners designers just dremelled out a section and put some square section plastic in place. The headlight is also incredibly plain and cheap looking. It's full LED so they could have had a go at styling it - instead it looks like they've been to Halfords for a pushbike one. The exhaust is ridiculously large, but it's irrelevant as you'll change that straight away.
Overall - I look forward to the tests, but I think the 1299 Panigale is where my money would be going, but none offer me anything over my Blade currently.
My thoughts on the GSXR compared to others.
Honda Blade SP - seat is rock hard - plasticky quality - disappointed at the price point as an existing Blade owner. Fairing too small, TFT is tiny.
Ducati 1299 - second most comfy litre bike, best looking.
Aprilia RF RSV4 - still seems to have poor detailing and quite a fussy design. Once again, show bike looked very second hand from just having people crawling all over it. Actually feels quite spacious but bars too low.
Yamaha R1 - Not really comfy, does nothing for me. The R1M has some lovely carbon, but £20k and the GPS thing looks gash. Details ok-ish. Frame's casting is quite rough
BMW S1000RR - pretty good package, but the seat to knee distance is too small for me. With some lower rear sets this could be the comfiest 1000.
GSXR1000R - Most comfy 1000 by some margin just sitting on it. It manages to be tiny, but spacious. Definitely the most practical litre sports bike. The guy on the stand also seemed quite confident it will be the strongest engine of the litre bikes for stomp and be a match for the BM at the top. The black and blue colours are ace too on the R (not matt black non-R. They've nicked the R1 shade of blue but the wheels look nice rather than rough cast and cheap like the R1s/MT10.
Downsides though - speaking the guy, anti-wheelie is only off if TC is off. They are tied together, although some wheelie is allowed in the low TC settings. This is a bit of an issue for me, as I will have to run it with TC off which kind of defeats the point if spending £16k on a tech fest bike. I want zero wheelie control, but would be nice to have a go at exploiting the TC a bit. Secondly, you can see why it is priced below the competition. There are some really dodgy details, like the water pump location and cohesion, and the way the tank cover bolts. Like they styled it and then the fasteners designers just dremelled out a section and put some square section plastic in place. The headlight is also incredibly plain and cheap looking. It's full LED so they could have had a go at styling it - instead it looks like they've been to Halfords for a pushbike one. The exhaust is ridiculously large, but it's irrelevant as you'll change that straight away.
Overall - I look forward to the tests, but I think the 1299 Panigale is where my money would be going, but none offer me anything over my Blade currently.
spareparts said:
Base price of the GSXR has to be at least £600 more expensive once owners factor in a decent zorst!
Virtually every standard exhaust is rank, so ultimately the level of rankness is academic if they all go in the loft.If the dyno graphs posted are true, that dustbin probably helped the cause.
Great review by 3DP.
Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
Overall if the dynographs are to be believed the Suzuki has some serious stomp. Could be the track bike of choice!
I am curious to see how it goes in WSB and at the TT. Looks to be a tidy bike.
Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
Overall if the dynographs are to be believed the Suzuki has some serious stomp. Could be the track bike of choice!
I am curious to see how it goes in WSB and at the TT. Looks to be a tidy bike.
Renn Sport said:
Great review by 3DP.
Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
If the tront wheel is in the air, it will be travelling more slowly than the rear wheel. ECU think rear wheel is slipping, so cuts power. Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
A small roll on wheelie for most people is similar to the bike going up a mountain pass (1:7 for example) in terms of its attitude/pitch, (i.e. the front is lofted a few inches above the ground on an otherwise flat road). The bike wants to prevent almost *any* rear spin, so cuts power... you get the drift.
Not sure how they would deactivate TC from wheelie control, even using pitch sensors combined with the accelerometers?
PS technically, you wouldn't "get the drift" - not with TC on anyway
If the journo reviews are as they are, the new GSXR appears to have the appeal that made the K5/6 such a great machine. Fantastic engine with strong low/mid range, spacious ergos, great gearbox, and just a very usable no-frills machine that undercuts the competition.
It makes the new Blade in RR/SP form look underwhelming. Honda's delay of releasing the homologation-spec SP2 until late summer gives them the advantage of being able to up-spec the bike after the others have released. At the price they are likely to be asking, it needs to be something _really_ special (and significantly more powerful) to justify it's place as top dog. I would expect nothing less than 205hp and 90ftlbs with Sport kit and 220hp+ with Race kit, to make it count.
It makes the new Blade in RR/SP form look underwhelming. Honda's delay of releasing the homologation-spec SP2 until late summer gives them the advantage of being able to up-spec the bike after the others have released. At the price they are likely to be asking, it needs to be something _really_ special (and significantly more powerful) to justify it's place as top dog. I would expect nothing less than 205hp and 90ftlbs with Sport kit and 220hp+ with Race kit, to make it count.
fergus said:
Renn Sport said:
Great review by 3DP.
Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
If the tront wheel is in the air, it will be travelling more slowly than the rear wheel. ECU think rear wheel is slipping, so cuts power. Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
A small roll on wheelie for most people is similar to the bike going up a mountain pass (1:7 for example) in terms of its attitude/pitch, (i.e. the front is lofted a few inches above the ground on an otherwise flat road). The bike wants to prevent almost *any* rear spin, so cuts power... you get the drift.
Not sure how they would deactivate TC from wheelie control, even using pitch sensors combined with the accelerometers?
PS technically, you wouldn't "get the drift" - not with TC on anyway
The old days of pure relative wheel speed sensors for TC/Antiwheelie are gone for this class of bike.
The guy on the Suzuki stand said that Suzuki had not made all of the TC/ABS/AW settings independently variable, in order to keep it simple for the consumers, which appears to be what Honda have done too.
Personally, I like the idea of Triumph's 'Rider' mode where you can personalise all settings rather than taking their other pre-planned sport, or track collection of settings. That way, if you are so inclined you can run any combination that suits what you want, tuned to whatever degree you want.
Wow, a black with blue forks and wheels!
Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
3DP said:
fergus said:
Renn Sport said:
Great review by 3DP.
Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
If the tront wheel is in the air, it will be travelling more slowly than the rear wheel. ECU think rear wheel is slipping, so cuts power. Shame the traction control is linked to Wheelies control. On the road that's just so saddening.
On the track its no bother.
A small roll on wheelie for most people is similar to the bike going up a mountain pass (1:7 for example) in terms of its attitude/pitch, (i.e. the front is lofted a few inches above the ground on an otherwise flat road). The bike wants to prevent almost *any* rear spin, so cuts power... you get the drift.
Not sure how they would deactivate TC from wheelie control, even using pitch sensors combined with the accelerometers?
PS technically, you wouldn't "get the drift" - not with TC on anyway
The old days of pure relative wheel speed sensors for TC/Antiwheelie are gone for this class of bike.
The guy on the Suzuki stand said that Suzuki had not made all of the TC/ABS/AW settings independently variable, in order to keep it simple for the consumers, which appears to be what Honda have done too.
Personally, I like the idea of Triumph's 'Rider' mode where you can personalise all settings rather than taking their other pre-planned sport, or track collection of settings. That way, if you are so inclined you can run any combination that suits what you want, tuned to whatever degree you want.
Take the early TC on the late Big Bang R1. Start messing about with the sprockets and the system goes into freefall. Ducati 1299's can't be calibrated if you use a sprocket combo outside Ducati's programmed allowable range.
It's not as easy as it seems, especially with the rolling radius changing in relative terms front to back when you lean over so factories have to decide how much to program in....hence BMW offer the calibration kit that allows huge and unlimited modification to the factory settings but with the consequence that one wrong entry will see the system inactive and the rider at risk of a catastrophe. You pays yer money and all that...
As for wheelie control, basic measurement is the slowing of the front wheel vs the rear. The system can look at throttle input, absolute angle from the IMU etc but these are hugely varying numbers and need a degree of hysteresis for the ecu to determine what's happening. Front wheel speed is absolute. Try putting a bike with anti wheelie active on a dyno. no angle of inclination seen by the IMU but a static front wheel and see what happens.....
As for the time limitation to any wheelie, modern bikes oil systems are being designed to reduce parasitic losses on the motor in the endless search for power. Less loss equals power gained. As such, pickups are often now in a small pocket deep in the sump to prevent cavitation and surging due to cornering or accel/decel forces. Any prolonged period at significant angles such as wheelies will see this reservoir emptied and the oil pump starts sucking air. Not so good for the motor really. So the time limit (Aprilia use this strategy as well) is not to spoil your fun but to keep the motor doing what it's designed to do. In performance engine design, ability to maintain a wheelie tends to come quite low on the list of priorities
Agree however that the manufacturers should permit pre-loaded configurations that the rider can custom configure and call up at will rather than being limited to the factories defaults.
Edited by Steve Bass on Monday 20th February 13:21
spareparts said:
I would expect nothing less than 205hp and 90ftlbs with Sport kit and 220hp+ with Race kit, to make it count.
Won't happen on a road legal bike.People who buy the SP2 are buying the opportunity to access the HRC kit(s) that will unleash the full potential and invalidate the warranty. RC213V strike a chord???
Look at all the litre bikes and they all make the same torque figure (within a smidge or so). The only variable is bhp which is a product of torque and rpm. There's very little can be done if you want a motor that's tractable enough for road use with a decent enough top end.
Steve Bass said:
spareparts said:
I would expect nothing less than 205hp and 90ftlbs with Sport kit and 220hp+ with Race kit, to make it count.
Won't happen on a road legal bike.People who buy the SP2 are buying the opportunity to access the HRC kit(s) that will unleash the full potential and invalidate the warranty. RC213V strike a chord???
Look at all the litre bikes and they all make the same torque figure (within a smidge or so). The only variable is bhp which is a product of torque and rpm. There's very little can be done if you want a motor that's tractable enough for road use with a decent enough top end.
moto_traxport said:
Not forgetting they've come to 'an agreement' on claiming no more than 199hp so everything after is going to be kit only parts as it doesn't upset the warranty department (or the politicians).
Indeed...The other thing is the new 'Blade "only" revs to 13k and makes 190 bhp. With the Suzi revving to 14500 and making 199, it's easy to see that once the rev ceiling on the 'Blade is lifted there'll be a lot more bhp available.
Ho Lee Kau said:
Wow, a black with blue forks and wheels!
Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
As a previous 954 owner and a current RSV4 owner(not an RF but I doubt they've changed the geometry much) I wouldn't say they felt that alike, what I will say though is I can't help looking at 954s in classifieds all the time, part of me would love another one, my favourite of the Fireblades except the new one as I've not ridden one to comment yet.Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
With the new GSXR, it looks nice in 3DPs pic, I'm not sure if I'd buy one though and I'm looking at changing my bike this year, it's going to be between the new Fireblade and R1 for me.
I'd strongly consider a 1299 but I'm worried their parts supply is as bad as Aprilias!.
Walter Sobchak said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
Wow, a black with blue forks and wheels!
Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
As a previous 954 owner and a current RSV4 owner(not an RF but I doubt they've changed the geometry much) I wouldn't say they felt that alike, what I will say though is I can't help looking at 954s in classifieds all the time, part of me would love another one, my favourite of the Fireblades except the new one as I've not ridden one to comment yet.Unfortunately we did not have that color combination at SwissMoto.
The MotoGP GSXR1000R was on a stand, not accessible for sitting.
The standard GSXR1000 was available, it was matt black with dark-red wheels. Personally I did not like the color combination, and I do not like matt black paint, it is so 5-years ago.
The rear of the new Gixxer Thou is very narrow compared to my K6!
Overall I liked the Gixxer.
It may be cheap looking for some, but when I sat on the Fireblade SP and felt the plastic and thin feeling petrol tank sides and the small plastic covers on the frame, they did not convey a feeling of expense to me. But SP is a great looking bike, definitely.
My favourite of the 1000 superbikes: 2017 Aprilia RSV4RF. Feels solid all over, feels very small but very roomy (I am 185cm tall), I like the design and the paint scheme. When I sat on the bike it felt very similar to my CBR954RR in terms of seating position, but in fact it was my acquaintance who also has 954RR who mentioned that feeling first!
With the new GSXR, it looks nice in 3DPs pic, I'm not sure if I'd buy one though and I'm looking at changing my bike this year, it's going to be between the new Fireblade and R1 for me.
I'd strongly consider a 1299 but I'm worried their parts supply is as bad as Aprilias!.
I find R1 visually not exciting, and that exhaust collector is so ugly. The welds on the swingarm look cheap, I can forgive Suzuki for that, because their bikes always look a bit rough, but R1M is second most expensive bike after 1299S! Plus both Honda and Aprilia did a much better job and RSV4RF costs almost 4K less than R1M where I am at.
I rode 2014 RSV4 Factory back to back with my 954RR and Aprilia surely impressed, reminded me of Daytona 675 in terms of handling, but I did not feel shortchanged at all back on my Honda. That's why I did not buy the Aprilia, decided to keep Daytona, but RSV4RF is an upgrade and I've been thinking hard about giving up Daytona+GSXR1000 K6 for an RF, but have extremely hard time deciding.
Ducati is huge compared to Aprilia, I cannot imagine Ducati having spare parts supply problem.
trickywoo said:
Renn Sport said:
I am curious to see how it goes in WSB and at the TT. Looks to be a tidy bike.
BSB too. Guintoli and Taylor Mackenzie on the Suzuki.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff