I had a dream about 400s
Discussion
A topic close to my heart this!
Makes me sad when people try and make comparisons between the current crop of A2 bikes and the old 400 class. One is a proper scaled down sports bike, high revving IL4, 65 bhp, proper suspension including USD forks, 160 rear tyre and twin front four pots with big discs. The current breed are little more than enlarged 125 commuters with bland twin cylinder engines and pretty plastics in an attempt to recreate the magic
I think if you've never ridden a proper 400 sports bike it's probably hard to grasp, my first bike was a ZXR 400 and I'd buy it back in a heartbeat, wherever it is.
Makes me sad when people try and make comparisons between the current crop of A2 bikes and the old 400 class. One is a proper scaled down sports bike, high revving IL4, 65 bhp, proper suspension including USD forks, 160 rear tyre and twin front four pots with big discs. The current breed are little more than enlarged 125 commuters with bland twin cylinder engines and pretty plastics in an attempt to recreate the magic
I think if you've never ridden a proper 400 sports bike it's probably hard to grasp, my first bike was a ZXR 400 and I'd buy it back in a heartbeat, wherever it is.
I wonder if how much rose tinted nostalgia is at work here. I would suggest that 400 sports bikes seem awesome when your experience of larger engine, more powerful bikes is limited, and get more awesome the longer the time period since you last rode one. While chasing the revs sounds like fun when reminiscing, slightly misjudging an overtake, only to find there is nothing left in the "get up and go" department, will remove some of that rose tinting.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
black-k1 said:
I wonder if how much rose tinted nostalgia is at work here. I would suggest that 400 sports bikes seem awesome when your experience of larger engine, more powerful bikes is limited, and get more awesome the longer the time period since you last rode one. While chasing the revs sounds like fun when reminiscing, slightly misjudging an overtake, only to find there is nothing left in the "get up and go" department, will remove some of that rose tinting.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
Bah humbug!I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
As a stand alone bike, I agree that its nice to have the extra power to get out of trouble, but you must have a heart of stone if you didn't fancy something from your youth to go alongside your daily bike. I don't think it can be beaten to jump on a underpowered bad handling bike on a sunny day for a bit of fun and a change from the norm
Tall_Paul said:
Not really. the current single cylinder bikes are rubbish vs the pocket rocket IL4 400cc and under bikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VkJeA33i5Y
or even better, a CBR250RR with a 19k redline.
https://youtu.be/cwyksKx6txo
I will miss my little CB400 in a way when i come to move it on, would love to keep it and retire it from commuting duties, strip it down, hunt down all the OEM bits and rebuild it to it's former glory but I just don't have the space.
I have the Bol d'Or version after having a JDM spec 400 Transalp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VkJeA33i5Y
or even better, a CBR250RR with a 19k redline.
https://youtu.be/cwyksKx6txo
I will miss my little CB400 in a way when i come to move it on, would love to keep it and retire it from commuting duties, strip it down, hunt down all the OEM bits and rebuild it to it's former glory but I just don't have the space.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Tuesday 21st February 23:16
I was a bit dismissive of the 400 having ridden superbikes for so long but I have to admit it's wormed it's way into my affections.
The motor is a peach and the vtec a real giggle.
Build quality is superb with decent components. Braking and handling are brilliant.
Anything bigger is a complete waste of time here and I'm planning on keeping her for the duration of my stay here.
Need to call David Silver and Wemoto for some services items....
Edited by Steve Bass on Wednesday 22 February 09:41
black-k1 said:
I wonder if how much rose tinted nostalgia is at work here. I would suggest that 400 sports bikes seem awesome when your experience of larger engine, more powerful bikes is limited, and get more awesome the longer the time period since you last rode one. While chasing the revs sounds like fun when reminiscing, slightly misjudging an overtake, only to find there is nothing left in the "get up and go" department, will remove some of that rose tinting.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
It's a good point but that's providing everyone wants one as a road bike. I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
Having borrowed a ZXR 400 race bike for a track day I have to admit it was the most fun I've had on track and that's comparing it to my Fireblade of similar age on the same track.
Yes for the road it's perhaps not best, if the prices weren't so stupid I'd probably consider one though, I think part of the problem is how good they are for racing/track hence getting taken off the road for only that purpose.
A bit of a shame really.
In pure terms they are pretty s
t these days, but in context were great back then. 600s were budget spec and 750s were expensive and heavy.
You got 750cc superbike specs with about half the power, but 30kg less weight. A lot more special feeling than 600s of the era.
Fast forward to now and they are 10-20kg heavier than a 1000cc superbike with under a third of the power and next to no torque. A 600 now, produces twice the power and has a nicer spec as well as being more comfy.
Saying all that, I enjoyed my VFR400 NC30 before writing it off, but beyond the nostalgia factor, they are not much cop today.
If your main motivation for liking them is missing bikes with low weight and good fun at a reasonable speeds, these days you have the MT09 and Street Triple being spiritual successors.
t these days, but in context were great back then. 600s were budget spec and 750s were expensive and heavy.You got 750cc superbike specs with about half the power, but 30kg less weight. A lot more special feeling than 600s of the era.
Fast forward to now and they are 10-20kg heavier than a 1000cc superbike with under a third of the power and next to no torque. A 600 now, produces twice the power and has a nicer spec as well as being more comfy.
Saying all that, I enjoyed my VFR400 NC30 before writing it off, but beyond the nostalgia factor, they are not much cop today.
If your main motivation for liking them is missing bikes with low weight and good fun at a reasonable speeds, these days you have the MT09 and Street Triple being spiritual successors.
Fleegle said:
black-k1 said:
I wonder if how much rose tinted nostalgia is at work here. I would suggest that 400 sports bikes seem awesome when your experience of larger engine, more powerful bikes is limited, and get more awesome the longer the time period since you last rode one. While chasing the revs sounds like fun when reminiscing, slightly misjudging an overtake, only to find there is nothing left in the "get up and go" department, will remove some of that rose tinting.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
Bah humbug!I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
As a stand alone bike, I agree that its nice to have the extra power to get out of trouble, but you must have a heart of stone if you didn't fancy something from your youth to go alongside your daily bike. I don't think it can be beaten to jump on a underpowered bad handling bike on a sunny day for a bit of fun and a change from the norm
On the right roads it is more fun and probably quicker than the 1000.
On paper the game has moved on but the accountants have also been working and modern plastics etc can feel a bit twee after the more heavyweight feeling of bikes of old.
The 400's did need wringing out and in some ways not unlike my old KR1s 2-stroke, on a commute they can be hard work but, and to me it's a big but... They are special. The components were (for their time) top grade and there was nothing 'budget' about them.
A decent NC30 (or super exquisite NC35), a Gull-Arm CBR400, GSXR400rrrrrrrrrrr, ZXR400 etc have character in buckets and bikes that would always make me smile whenever I opened the garage door.
PS - The A2 licence bikes are good for their own market but they are nothing like these old exotic bikes...
PPS - Just checking the specs. The ZXR400 was 62bhp and 160kg. I think the current A2 bikes are a decent chunk heavier..
The 400's did need wringing out and in some ways not unlike my old KR1s 2-stroke, on a commute they can be hard work but, and to me it's a big but... They are special. The components were (for their time) top grade and there was nothing 'budget' about them.
A decent NC30 (or super exquisite NC35), a Gull-Arm CBR400, GSXR400rrrrrrrrrrr, ZXR400 etc have character in buckets and bikes that would always make me smile whenever I opened the garage door.
PS - The A2 licence bikes are good for their own market but they are nothing like these old exotic bikes...
PPS - Just checking the specs. The ZXR400 was 62bhp and 160kg. I think the current A2 bikes are a decent chunk heavier..
Edited by Fire99 on Wednesday 22 February 10:04
Tall_Paul said:
Love my little CB400, ok it's a naked but it's the same thing. 14k rpm red line, 110mph (GPS confirmed on an Autobahn) top speed, hit 12k+ rpm in 1st, 2nd and 3rd and you're only just doing more than about 80mph
They were built so much better than the current A2 bikes too, mine has proper twin discs with 4 pot calipers (the same as the ones on the early fireblade), showa forks, after all they were built for the Jap market where anything over 400cc was grossly expensive to run, so they built 399cc versions of their big sports and naked bikes and specced them the same.
I've seen these around and always liked them They were built so much better than the current A2 bikes too, mine has proper twin discs with 4 pot calipers (the same as the ones on the early fireblade), showa forks, after all they were built for the Jap market where anything over 400cc was grossly expensive to run, so they built 399cc versions of their big sports and naked bikes and specced them the same.
What are they like in the torque department in normal riding?
Fleegle said:
black-k1 said:
I wonder if how much rose tinted nostalgia is at work here. I would suggest that 400 sports bikes seem awesome when your experience of larger engine, more powerful bikes is limited, and get more awesome the longer the time period since you last rode one. While chasing the revs sounds like fun when reminiscing, slightly misjudging an overtake, only to find there is nothing left in the "get up and go" department, will remove some of that rose tinting.
I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
Bah humbug!I enjoyed my younger days riding slower, less powerful bikes, but that's the past and there's a good reason why most people purchase bikes with larger capacity engines.
As a stand alone bike, I agree that its nice to have the extra power to get out of trouble, but you must have a heart of stone if you didn't fancy something from your youth to go alongside your daily bike. I don't think it can be beaten to jump on a underpowered bad handling bike on a sunny day for a bit of fun and a change from the norm
It's like meeting an old girl friend ... what was a great ride in its day now feels a bit soggy, is a bit heavier and slower than you expected and just doesn't go as well as you remember!
black-k1 said:
It's like meeting an old girl friend ... what was a great ride in its day now feels a bit soggy, is a bit heavier and slower than you expected and just doesn't go as well as you remember!
Mine used to smoke a lot, break down a lot, were always temperamental and expensive to run. They would always drink too much juice but fortunately none of them ever shyte themselvesJust like my two strokes
creampuff said:
I've seen these around and always liked them
What are they like in the torque department in normal riding?
What torque? What are they like in the torque department in normal riding?
there's very little anything below 6k rpm, for overtakes you have to be in the right gear and the right revs. However on the plus side it'll do 30mph in 6th at 3k rpm.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff