Speed Cameras on M25
Discussion
More of a general discussion from spending an annoyingly long time on the M25 in the last few days.
What I noticed was how people panic when the reduced speed limit signs appear and in turn hit the brakes. Obviously combine that with the fact that people don't leave the required distance from the car in front and it all seems a bit hazardous. I keep left and keep my distance so tend to observe things unfolding ahead or in another lane but I could imagine these maybe contributing to an accident. Driving too close combined with an overreaction to the reduced speed limit for fear of a fine isn't ideal.
I noticed there were various flashes of speed cameras going off on both sides of the motorway and in turn whenever the speed limit sign changed, people immediately reacted for fear of being caught over the limit.
I 100% appreciate the need for varying the speed limits at given times, especially when there are hazards or closed lanes. I tend to just ease off the accelerator to bring me down to the necessary speed but most people don't. I also think that if someone passes under a gantry and the sign changes just as they're underneath they brake quite hard.
Maybe I'm just reading into it too much but wondered what other people thought?
What I noticed was how people panic when the reduced speed limit signs appear and in turn hit the brakes. Obviously combine that with the fact that people don't leave the required distance from the car in front and it all seems a bit hazardous. I keep left and keep my distance so tend to observe things unfolding ahead or in another lane but I could imagine these maybe contributing to an accident. Driving too close combined with an overreaction to the reduced speed limit for fear of a fine isn't ideal.
I noticed there were various flashes of speed cameras going off on both sides of the motorway and in turn whenever the speed limit sign changed, people immediately reacted for fear of being caught over the limit.
I 100% appreciate the need for varying the speed limits at given times, especially when there are hazards or closed lanes. I tend to just ease off the accelerator to bring me down to the necessary speed but most people don't. I also think that if someone passes under a gantry and the sign changes just as they're underneath they brake quite hard.
Maybe I'm just reading into it too much but wondered what other people thought?
trickywoo said:
Dangerous IMO and too little consistency.
The variable limits often go 50, 60, 40 from gantry to gantry for no reason.
My understanding is that you only have 10 seconds grace from the limit displaying and the camera being active.
I once witnessed the limit sign come on and immediately start flashing people, this was 11pm with no one else about bar about 6 cars. Like there was zero reason to turn the limits on and there was no way anyone would have slowed enough to not get flashed. I too slammed on, luckily didnt get flashed. Dont know if those people ended up with tickets or not but if they did then thats fThe variable limits often go 50, 60, 40 from gantry to gantry for no reason.
My understanding is that you only have 10 seconds grace from the limit displaying and the camera being active.
king cancerous. MikeGoodwin said:
I once witnessed the limit sign come on and immediately start flashing people, this was 11pm with no one else about bar about 6 cars. Like there was zero reason to turn the limits on and there was no way anyone would have slowed enough to not get flashed. I too slammed on, luckily didnt get flashed. Dont know if those people ended up with tickets or not but if they did then thats fking cancerous.
11pm is the time most motorway maintenance starts to take place.king cancerous. How do you know they didn't lower the limit because a cone lorry was just about to join to start coning off lanes? They don't just lower the limit for no reason at all.
Flashing people and slamming on brakes is not needed and frankly dangerous. They do use common sense and the camera's do have a window of approx 1 min before they activate after a limit change.
Is the assumption not being made that all drivers would have a similar knowledge to an 'enthusiast'?
Most of the motoring public just get in a box to go from A-B .
Would they understand the more precise workings of these cameras?
They see a yellow thing on a gantry and throw the anchor. The more clued up amongst us will be expecting this and adjust distances accordingly.
Most of the motoring public just get in a box to go from A-B .
Would they understand the more precise workings of these cameras?
They see a yellow thing on a gantry and throw the anchor. The more clued up amongst us will be expecting this and adjust distances accordingly.
roofer said:
Obnoxious Olly Martins said:
The county has the fourth highest level of gun crime per head, fifth highest level of burglary, robbery and vehicle crime, seventh highest level of knife crime, and a high terror threat, he said.
Presumably the terror threat relates specifically to "London Luton" airport, surely policing that should be centrally funded? Or at least funded by London if Luton is in London?HantsRat said:
Just because some drivers are stupid enough to slam on their brakes when a speed limit sign changes with cars close behind doesn't make it the fault of the sign.
It's like blaming the person who told someone to jump of a cliff if they actually do it.
I get where you're coming from.It's like blaming the person who told someone to jump of a cliff if they actually do it.
BUT the big issue is the knowledge of the average driver. For example on a car forum we've had a couple of different suggestions as to what the grace period is when the speed changes.
I know that only about 1 in 4 gantries actually has a camera on it, for the most part you can see them. So why do you see drivers speed up and slow down at every gantry? Because they don't know and don't care to find out preferring to live in a case of near constant panic at the sight of a road sign.
Many of the same people don't know or care to know what AVERAGE speed cameras do based on the number of people who drive at 70 and slow down at the camera. Personally I'd love them to be caught but I doubt they are.
You see the same in cycling - the knowledgable ones that are on the forums, checking TFL website for how Bow roundabout signage / lights work ten not to be the problem, it's the casual ones who have no interest in increased knowledge but do add to the (death and casualty) statistics.
Hackney said:
Because they don't know and don't care to find out preferring to live in a case of near constant panic at the sight of a road sign.
And back in the day, a minor transgression wouldn't have mattered and at worst you'd get a ticking off from a traffic cop. Now the computerised fining system doesn't care about weather conditions, traffic conditions or the fact that you're driving has been generally impeccable, it just sends a fine, thus encouraging paranoia. Better to be 10 mph under the limit than 10 mph over, no matter what the consequences.HantsRat said:
11pm is the time most motorway maintenance starts to take place.
How do you know they didn't lower the limit because a cone lorry was just about to join to start coning off lanes? They don't just lower the limit for no reason at all.
Flashing people and slamming on brakes is not needed and frankly dangerous. They do use common sense and the camera's do have a window of approx 1 min before they activate after a limit change.
Good question I should have clarified that better. There was no one else about. 6 cars around me, very quiet, nothing on road, no roadworks and it was just a single gantry. No other gantry was displaying a speed limit. How do you know they didn't lower the limit because a cone lorry was just about to join to start coning off lanes? They don't just lower the limit for no reason at all.
Flashing people and slamming on brakes is not needed and frankly dangerous. They do use common sense and the camera's do have a window of approx 1 min before they activate after a limit change.
MikeGoodwin said:
Good question I should have clarified that better. There was no one else about. 6 cars around me, very quiet, nothing on road, no roadworks and it was just a single gantry. No other gantry was displaying a speed limit.
Yes how they work is...1) Works vehicles wait off the motorway network either at a junction or a services.
2) When ready they radio highways to set a lower speed limit
3) Once lower speed limit in place, the cone truck will then appear and cone off the area required
4) Once coned off, the other works vehicles appear and start work.
They were probably out of sight waiting to enter to motorway.
Or, it someone could've rang the Police or Highways about some debris in the carriageway. It may have blown away and you may not have seen anything but they will lower the speed limit until the area is checked.
Or, someone could've report a pedestrian stood looking over a bridge looking like they may jump.
Basically it could me a vast number of reason but they wouldn't lower the speed limit if there was no reason to. Sometimes they can be left on after work is carried out but these are usually spotted by Police or other workers and we ring up to remove the restriction as and when spotted.
Edited by HantsRat on Wednesday 29th March 11:06
trickywoo said:
Dangerous IMO and too little consistency.
The variable limits often go 50, 60, 40 from gantry to gantry for no reason.
My understanding is that you only have 10 seconds grace from the limit displaying and the camera being active.
Had this the other night. The variable limits often go 50, 60, 40 from gantry to gantry for no reason.
My understanding is that you only have 10 seconds grace from the limit displaying and the camera being active.
NSL for a few miles >> 50 was shown (but I could see the speed on the next sign as 60 it was maybe 300m ahead) then went 60 >> 60 >> 40 >> NSL.
Frustrating and lots of people braking heavily to match the speeds of the signs. Dangerous.
HantsRat said:
Flashing people and slamming on brakes is not needed and frankly dangerous. They do use common sense and the camera's do have a window of approx 1 min before they activate after a limit change.
The trouble is this is exactly what people do because there's a fear that as if they're wafting along at say 75mph, which lets be honest a lot of people do, rightly or not. Then a sign suddenly flashes up saying 50 or even 60, they will brake hard to get down to that speed for fear of a ticket. I wholeheartedly agree this is dangerous but people react before thinking as they think, "Sh*t I don't want a ticket" more than "I better not brake sharply at this speed". I think it's the consistency of the common sense that would appear to vary a bit on the M25. I have driven home from junctions 18 to 7 at 10pm on a Sunday evening on many occasions. See the speed limits dropped so dip down to 50 or even 40mph to spend 10 minutes trickling along a near empty motorway, only for the speed limit to go back to 70mph and having seen absolutely no reason for it at all! No lane closure, no incidents etc. Just like the signs had been left on by mistake.
Out of interest, are different sections of the M25 controlled by different authorities?
Alex_225 said:
HantsRat said:
Flashing people and slamming on brakes is not needed and frankly dangerous. They do use common sense and the camera's do have a window of approx 1 min before they activate after a limit change.
The trouble is this is exactly what people do because there's a fear that as if they're wafting along at say 75mph, which lets be honest a lot of people do, rightly or not. Then a sign suddenly flashes up saying 50 or even 60, they will brake hard to get down to that speed for fear of a ticket. I wholeheartedly agree this is dangerous but people react before thinking as they think, "Sh*t I don't want a ticket" more than "I better not brake sharply at this speed". I think it's the consistency of the common sense that would appear to vary a bit on the M25. I have driven home from junctions 18 to 7 at 10pm on a Sunday evening on many occasions. See the speed limits dropped so dip down to 50 or even 40mph to spend 10 minutes trickling along a near empty motorway, only for the speed limit to go back to 70mph and having seen absolutely no reason for it at all! No lane closure, no incidents etc. Just like the signs had been left on by mistake.
Out of interest, are different sections of the M25 controlled by different authorities?
ashleyman said:
So you're saying people should brake slowly and get NIP's for speeding instead of brake hard and drive at the legal speed limit?
Haha no not at all, of course not. 
Those are the only two options though is what I mean and neither of them are really great for the motorist be it safety of their hard earned cash!
covboy said:
ashleyman said:
So you're saying people should brake slowly and get NIP's for speeding instead of brake hard and drive at the legal speed limit?
I think he's saying people should look further ahead than the end of their bonnets and adjust their driving accordingly Be realistic.
HantsRat said:
Just because some drivers are stupid enough to slam on their brakes when a speed limit sign changes with cars close behind doesn't make it the fault of the sign.
It's like blaming the person who told someone to jump of a cliff if they actually do it.
This is complete nonsense. It's like the council digging a big hole plain for everyone to see in the high street and then blaming people for bumping into one another stopping to go around it and occasionally falling in. It's the fault of the council not the people.It's like blaming the person who told someone to jump of a cliff if they actually do it.
But let's let the statistics speak up for us. We've enjoyed decades of incredibly good safety records on the motorways, and now we've created a system that causes bunching and random braking. It's trying to take away people's pragmatism behind the wheel where before they were able to choose safe speeds, the result is already clear a bunch of morons trundling along in one lane, not bothering to think and change lane etc, blindly jamming on their brakes.
Honestly, nobody with a brain believes this nonsense adds to road safety, and I predict we've thrown away the beautiful safety of the motorways with it.
Unfortunately places like this forum shows that there are enough useful idiots to blindly offer their support to this nonsense letting the government get away with it.
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