Coding/Programming - career advice please
Discussion
Career "developments" in the past few months have started me thinking about switching careers (slightly) and retraining. I'm currently a systems consultant but have realised that the stuff I really enjoy is coding. I get to do a few things in VBA (mostly in Excel, sometimes in Word). I've also been starting to pick up Python and C++ in my spare time, but haven't any real purpose/task to use them for at the moment - I'm just working through online tutorials. In the past (long, long ago) I've also picked up small amounts of HTML, CSS, javascript, SQL, PHP - but as with the other languages it's just a case of finding something close enough via google and hacking at it until it works (often with more googling) - therefore my learned principles and habits probably aren't the best.
With minimal experience of the industry and its structure, I'd guess my interests lie more in back end/application development rather than the front end/UI side of things - although if a task leans towards "calculations" rather than "design" I think I could cope.
My questions are: what are the routes into such a career? Are there any preferred qualifications/accreditations to look at? AIUI, languages are as much about picking the right tool for the job rather than the job itself, so I'm assuming a decent qualification is somewhat language agnostic? What is the jobs market like at the moment and are there opportunities to build experience?
If anything develops from this, it's likely to be a 1/2/3 year plan depending qualification requirements while continuing in my current role.
Cheers in advance
With minimal experience of the industry and its structure, I'd guess my interests lie more in back end/application development rather than the front end/UI side of things - although if a task leans towards "calculations" rather than "design" I think I could cope.
My questions are: what are the routes into such a career? Are there any preferred qualifications/accreditations to look at? AIUI, languages are as much about picking the right tool for the job rather than the job itself, so I'm assuming a decent qualification is somewhat language agnostic? What is the jobs market like at the moment and are there opportunities to build experience?
If anything develops from this, it's likely to be a 1/2/3 year plan depending qualification requirements while continuing in my current role.
Cheers in advance
Ive been running through Nodeschool ( https://nodeschool.io )
and Freecodecamp ( https://www.freecodecamp.com )
Im not in I.T at the mo' as much as i'd like to be, but i apply things i've learned to attack problems and issues in the office that people have.
Ive also learned that i can run javascript locally on the work windows boxes using cscript without needing to install anything.
Ill be watching this thread closely as im starting further back than you OP but wish to achieve the same ends
and Freecodecamp ( https://www.freecodecamp.com )
Im not in I.T at the mo' as much as i'd like to be, but i apply things i've learned to attack problems and issues in the office that people have.
Ive also learned that i can run javascript locally on the work windows boxes using cscript without needing to install anything.
Ill be watching this thread closely as im starting further back than you OP but wish to achieve the same ends
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ummm why? The MS stack is stunning. Azure is the leader in cloud services. Visual Studio is the best IDE out there and VS 2017 has just been released pushing it further including xamarin for free to make building multi mobile/tablet apps much easier . SQL Server 2016 is superb with it's always on availability, it even works on Linux. Windows Server 2012 r2 and now Server 2016 is incredibly stable.anonymous said:
[redacted]
I prefer people that have certifications especially people like me that didn't get a degree and had to knuckled down to learn the language/application fully to gain a qualification. They are not easy and you get a full knowledge of the whole product rather than the small segment of daily use stuff.OP - look at free courses, Microsoft do loads of them, they show demos from MVP's and even give away free software. There should also be plenty of meetups and even check out eventbrite for ones near you.
SystemParanoia said:
Ive been running through Nodeschool ( https://nodeschool.io )
and Freecodecamp ( https://www.freecodecamp.com )
Im not in I.T at the mo' as much as i'd like to be, but i apply things i've learned to attack problems and issues in the office that people have.
Ive also learned that i can run javascript locally on the work windows boxes using cscript without needing to install anything.
Ill be watching this thread closely as im starting further back than you OP but wish to achieve the same ends
Excellent, thanks, I'll take a look at those. I've used codeacademy.com a bit, check it out if it's any use to you and Freecodecamp ( https://www.freecodecamp.com )
Im not in I.T at the mo' as much as i'd like to be, but i apply things i've learned to attack problems and issues in the office that people have.
Ive also learned that i can run javascript locally on the work windows boxes using cscript without needing to install anything.
Ill be watching this thread closely as im starting further back than you OP but wish to achieve the same ends
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Lots of people run Java on Windows servers, is that native? 1/3 of all Azure VM's are now running Linux, so Microsoft is taking it very seriously. .Net has run on Linux for years and things like .Net core takes this even further.anonymous said:
[redacted]
I've not come across this and often find java projects over complicated and un-supportable.However for a easy-way into coding, I believe MS makes it fairly simple to learn and create things. Look at how many flipping Excel Macros doing massive tasks are out there - argggg.
These days if you are pigeonholed into 1 programming language and know nothing else you are missing out. Use the correct language/tool for the task required, not try to mould the only tool you know to do something it is not designed to do.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, personally if you can code, you can code in any language.
0000 said:
Agreed. And if you're not sure about this, get on a job site and have a look around.
https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/IT-Job-Market/UK/Pro...1) SQL
2) Javascript
3) C#
4) Java
SwissJonese said:
0000 said:
Agreed. And if you're not sure about this, get on a job site and have a look around.
https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/IT-Job-Market/UK/Pro...1) SQL
alock said:
Just as well we're all different! I don't employ developers who take TDD too seriously. It's fine for a team of junior programmers implementing well defined business level applications. Anything exciting that requires lots of R&D doesn't suit TDD.
Yeah. Dare I say not everything even requires automated testing, let alone TDD. Most, but not all, of its value is in getting junior devs to think about how to structure their code better.I ended up on some fixed price work last year which required a percentage of unit test coverage. It still makes me wince thinking about some of the tests I wrote on that. Reached the required coverage remarkably quickly though.
As has already been said, the vast majority of developers do a degree, but I'm one of the exceptions.
I always wanted to code from the time I got my first computer (ZX-81), but I was never academic. Hated school and ended up dropping out after my first year of A levels.
I wrote letter after letter to try and get a coding job for about 9 years. Nothing even close to a job came out of that. I did an HND in the evenings, although in the end I think that was a waste of time.
I got my break from a friend whose boss was looking for someone to do some computer related work. So my first IT job involved crawling around a factory and warehouse pulling network cables and setting up print servers. Eventually he wanted me to write some planning software in Paradox (Borland's answer to Access). After successfully doing this I then re-wrote it in the newly released Delphi and over the next couple of years wrote more software.
With my 2 years in, I found it relatively easy to get another job with a software house. It was here I realised I knew nothing about writing code
But they were great and I learned so much from them. Every day since is a day learning. Eventually Delphi fell out of favour and I migrated to C# and .Net.
Still doing it today, but had to learn so much new stuff as Microsoft deprecates one framework for another at an alarming rate.
The advice to network is very good advice, and ultimately it might lead to an opportunity, but you need to be able to do the job to be in a position to take advantage.
If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
I always wanted to code from the time I got my first computer (ZX-81), but I was never academic. Hated school and ended up dropping out after my first year of A levels.
I wrote letter after letter to try and get a coding job for about 9 years. Nothing even close to a job came out of that. I did an HND in the evenings, although in the end I think that was a waste of time.
I got my break from a friend whose boss was looking for someone to do some computer related work. So my first IT job involved crawling around a factory and warehouse pulling network cables and setting up print servers. Eventually he wanted me to write some planning software in Paradox (Borland's answer to Access). After successfully doing this I then re-wrote it in the newly released Delphi and over the next couple of years wrote more software.
With my 2 years in, I found it relatively easy to get another job with a software house. It was here I realised I knew nothing about writing code
But they were great and I learned so much from them. Every day since is a day learning. Eventually Delphi fell out of favour and I migrated to C# and .Net.
Still doing it today, but had to learn so much new stuff as Microsoft deprecates one framework for another at an alarming rate.
The advice to network is very good advice, and ultimately it might lead to an opportunity, but you need to be able to do the job to be in a position to take advantage.
If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
zippy3x said:
As has already been said, the vast majority of developers do a degree, but I'm one of the exceptions.
I always wanted to code from the time I got my first computer (ZX-81), but I was never academic. Hated school and ended up dropping out after my first year of A levels.
I wrote letter after letter to try and get a coding job for about 9 years. Nothing even close to a job came out of that. I did an HND in the evenings, although in the end I think that was a waste of time.
I got my break from a friend whose boss was looking for someone to do some computer related work. So my first IT job involved crawling around a factory and warehouse pulling network cables and setting up print servers. Eventually he wanted me to write some planning software in Paradox (Borland's answer to Access). After successfully doing this I then re-wrote it in the newly released Delphi and over the next couple of years wrote more software.
With my 2 years in, I found it relatively easy to get another job with a software house. It was here I realised I knew nothing about writing code
But they were great and I learned so much from them. Every day since is a day learning. Eventually Delphi fell out of favour and I migrated to C# and .Net.
Still doing it today, but had to learn so much new stuff as Microsoft deprecates one framework for another at an alarming rate.
The advice to network is very good advice, and ultimately it might lead to an opportunity, but you need to be able to do the job to be in a position to take advantage.
If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
Interesting thread..... I started out on a ZX81 with 16k wobbly RAM pack. Since I have gone through Fortran and Pascal and eventually do various bits in VBA. I do stuff for work at home, unpaid because I enjoy it.I always wanted to code from the time I got my first computer (ZX-81), but I was never academic. Hated school and ended up dropping out after my first year of A levels.
I wrote letter after letter to try and get a coding job for about 9 years. Nothing even close to a job came out of that. I did an HND in the evenings, although in the end I think that was a waste of time.
I got my break from a friend whose boss was looking for someone to do some computer related work. So my first IT job involved crawling around a factory and warehouse pulling network cables and setting up print servers. Eventually he wanted me to write some planning software in Paradox (Borland's answer to Access). After successfully doing this I then re-wrote it in the newly released Delphi and over the next couple of years wrote more software.
With my 2 years in, I found it relatively easy to get another job with a software house. It was here I realised I knew nothing about writing code
But they were great and I learned so much from them. Every day since is a day learning. Eventually Delphi fell out of favour and I migrated to C# and .Net.
Still doing it today, but had to learn so much new stuff as Microsoft deprecates one framework for another at an alarming rate.
The advice to network is very good advice, and ultimately it might lead to an opportunity, but you need to be able to do the job to be in a position to take advantage.
If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
I have an engineering degree and have ended up within that field -management level.
I keep thinking that there is a business opportunity helping any local business/council writing VBA code (usually within excel) to make employees more efficient..... the number of repetitive tasks people do in Excel on a regulate basis is staggering, this does not seem limited to company size either IME. When my wife worked at the council, I wrote various bits of code to help her to be more efficient -I am sure this is the tip of the iceberg.
My big fear is I have no professional qualification and my coding is all self taught.... but it is tempting.....
Mike
zippy3x said:
The advice to network is very good advice, and ultimately it might lead to an opportunity, but you need to be able to do the job to be in a position to take advantage.
If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
Cheers, the Github idea is an interesting one.If you are getting any experience of coding where you are, I would continue. Take every opportunity to do more, and actively seek out tasks with a programming element.
I would also recommend looking at open source projects. GitHub has tens of thousands of projects spanning every language and many, many domains. find something interesting and download the code. Play with it, change things and see the effect.
The internet has thousands of tutorials, again on every subject and language, so watch the videos or read the text, whichever medium you prefer.
But above all keep plugging away, took me nearly a decade to get in, but 20 years later, I still love the job (most of the time anyway)
I know a couple of people in related fields - I'll get networking.
mike9009 said:
I keep thinking that there is a business opportunity helping any local business/council writing VBA code (usually within excel) to make employees more efficient..... the number of repetitive tasks people do in Excel on a regulate basis is staggering, this does not seem limited to company size either IME.
Mike
VBA is a dirty word for a lot of programmers, but it's so simple to work with and it hooks so strongly into all of Office that it's incredibly powerful - as you say, there are so many silly little things that people do by hand repetitively (and badly) which can be done by the computer itself. Mike
As someone with over a decade as a pro developer I think I probably can give my $0.02.
I got into this industry as my computing teacher suggested I went to Cambridge to read computer science a long time ago. I ended up going to Warwick instead but I did do CS (I got a desmond - too much partying on the whole and being lazy).
Following graduation it took probably 3 months or so to get my first job. This paid pretty appallingly, but it was a break. Also the people I worked with were great on the whole - all of us were early 20s and would go on holiday together etc. There was also a call centre in the office (so loads of people to go out on the piss with etc). Hours were crap sometimes though - I worked out at times I made less than minimum wage based on the hours I was pulling.
Many years later and the hours can still be crap. Yesterday was a 12 hour day in the office followed by another 2 hours at home (trying to get a customer to go live). But my salary, bonus, stock options etc now mean that this is definitely worthwhile. This month (bonus pay out) I came close to earning what I did in a year when I first started so if you're any good there's definitely a chance to make some good money.
Watch out for stress. My role tends to go in peaks and troughs but when you're trying to juggle 4 projects and things aren't going smoothly (think customers, product owners etc yelling) then it can definitely be stressful. This has probably taken a bit of a toll on me over the years as much as I try to not let it get to me.
Watch out for redundancy situations. Companies do tend to do this (some less than others). I got made redundant back in 2014 but fortunately I was able to find a new role within a week.
Outsourcing (offshore and nearshore) is definitely an issue in the industry. I've been involved in projects for both and favour nearshore due to the smaller timezone difference and easier travelling. I think grunt work will possibly be moving more to these locations (Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, China, Eastern Europe) but there will still be requirements for people to design the systems and being able to work with customers etc which I can't see these centres doing in the long term. This is a reason why I'm moving more towards solution engineering / design as opposed to concentrating mainly on coding these days.
So, with all of this, would I recommend it as a career? Probably. Get into the right area and it can be fun.
How would i get into this? Maybe look at leveraging your existing experience - working with an engineering software company for instance. Then I'd probably start learning about concepts to make you a full stack (I hate this term) developer at least initially. It helps if you have some knowledge of all components that make up a modern software stack. Once you've got that you can then start specialising a bit more. Github etc will be good for this - understanding code written by other people is probably the most useful skill to have!
I got into this industry as my computing teacher suggested I went to Cambridge to read computer science a long time ago. I ended up going to Warwick instead but I did do CS (I got a desmond - too much partying on the whole and being lazy).
Following graduation it took probably 3 months or so to get my first job. This paid pretty appallingly, but it was a break. Also the people I worked with were great on the whole - all of us were early 20s and would go on holiday together etc. There was also a call centre in the office (so loads of people to go out on the piss with etc). Hours were crap sometimes though - I worked out at times I made less than minimum wage based on the hours I was pulling.
Many years later and the hours can still be crap. Yesterday was a 12 hour day in the office followed by another 2 hours at home (trying to get a customer to go live). But my salary, bonus, stock options etc now mean that this is definitely worthwhile. This month (bonus pay out) I came close to earning what I did in a year when I first started so if you're any good there's definitely a chance to make some good money.
Watch out for stress. My role tends to go in peaks and troughs but when you're trying to juggle 4 projects and things aren't going smoothly (think customers, product owners etc yelling) then it can definitely be stressful. This has probably taken a bit of a toll on me over the years as much as I try to not let it get to me.
Watch out for redundancy situations. Companies do tend to do this (some less than others). I got made redundant back in 2014 but fortunately I was able to find a new role within a week.
Outsourcing (offshore and nearshore) is definitely an issue in the industry. I've been involved in projects for both and favour nearshore due to the smaller timezone difference and easier travelling. I think grunt work will possibly be moving more to these locations (Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, China, Eastern Europe) but there will still be requirements for people to design the systems and being able to work with customers etc which I can't see these centres doing in the long term. This is a reason why I'm moving more towards solution engineering / design as opposed to concentrating mainly on coding these days.
So, with all of this, would I recommend it as a career? Probably. Get into the right area and it can be fun.
How would i get into this? Maybe look at leveraging your existing experience - working with an engineering software company for instance. Then I'd probably start learning about concepts to make you a full stack (I hate this term) developer at least initially. It helps if you have some knowledge of all components that make up a modern software stack. Once you've got that you can then start specialising a bit more. Github etc will be good for this - understanding code written by other people is probably the most useful skill to have!
Edited by Ynox on Wednesday 29th March 09:17
Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff