Electronic aids?

[Biker9090]

I'm 33 and have ridden since I was 17. About half of the time was without any form of rider aid. For the last (roughly) 9 years all of my bikes have at least had ABS (except a Tuono I owned for about 3 months and my current CZ). Whilst I'm capable of riding without I would never again buy a "main" bike without lean sensitive rider aids. It's part of the reason I'm looking to get rid of my CZ (cable operated drums) and VFR1200F (basic ABS only).

I ride all year round including commuting and touring in terrible weather. I want the best rider aids I can realistically get as I know all it takes is one error or judgement/one slip up and you're toast.

This basically means my next bike options are severely limited (especially with an 8k budget) but I'm happy to take the difficulty finding one if it gives me that reassurance on a long day in the saddle/over unfamiliar roads etc.

Even my old CBF500 (which I will keep) still has (basic) ABS. Must be one of the very, very few bikes out there to have ABS and Carbs!

If I was chosing a classic bike or one purely to have a bit of fun on on a sunny day then I wouldn't be so picky but as an everyday bike I want all the safety aids I can get - I'm mature enough to admit that I'm not infallible.

I had the rear lock up solid on my CZ last year due to the fking stupid design that allows the footpeg to rotate and jam onto the rear brake pedal - I couldn't free it until stopped. A totally solid rear wheel in pissing December rain at 45mph is utterly terrifying so it's bye to "classic" bikes from me for now.

I'm less concerned about traction control on smaller bikes, albeit I did lose the rear end (managed to catch it) on my 500 on some lose gravel.

Edited by Biker9090 on Monday 11th March 11:07

[the cueball]

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I'm sitting there on my bike with no help, no ABS, no aids, on the same roads, doing the same things and have no drama at all.

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

I could be a riding god of course... there is that..

[Biker's Nemesis]

I am nearly 60 and have been riding since I was 16 on the road (off road from 7 year old)

All the electronic aids in the world will not stop you having an accident. (I am stating the obvious)

Having the right mindsight is a big thing, also when/how you ride is important, are you going to ride in all weathers or just be a summer weekend warrior like myself?

My first road bike with ABS and TC was my first MT10 back in 2017. I nearly had an accident in the first few months when coming to a downhill junction, which is covered by Trees overhead. I didn't spot the gravel at the bottom which activated the ABS which made me run over the dotted line into lane one which thankfully had no traffic, my speed would have been around the 5 to 10 mph.

Tc is turned to minimum as it stops wheelies.

My R1m has had the ABS delete as that activates far too early on track.

Its hard to offer advice on threads like this because all one can offer is anecdotal advice.

[Steve_H80]

Cueball makes a valid point.
I do know people that ride the safety tech allowing it to keep everything together so it's triggering all the time. I learned all my riding pre safety tech and just can't bring myself to do that.
I appreciate the risk of this approach, for example how do I know my ABS still works?

[Skeptisk]

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I'm sitting there on my bike with no help, no ABS, no aids, on the same roads, doing the same things and have no drama at all.

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

I could be a riding god of course... there is that..

It didn’t seem like people were bragging about the electronics saving them.

The electronics can change your riding style as you can be less vigilant, which is perhaps not a good thing.

I’m not sure if the electronics have actually saved me or whether I would have dealt with the loss of grip/traction anyway.

[8IKERDAVE]

I don't think it would put me off, I'd just ride more cautiously knowing they aren't there.

I only have ABS and basic traction. The ABS has never triggered unvolenerily (I have tested it a couple of times) and the traction maybe once or twice being too giddy on a damp road. Obviously better to have the backup but if you're an experienced rider you will already know when you are on the limit of traction or close to it.

[Biker9090]

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I'm sitting there on my bike with no help, no ABS, no aids, on the same roads, doing the same things and have no drama at all.

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

I could be a riding god of course... there is that..

Show me where someone has said that?

Most are just mature enough to understand that they cannot acount for uncontrolled circumstances and panic reactions. I know full well I probably wouldn't be able to outbrake an ABS bike on an equivalent non ABS bike on a pissing wet road when I'm tired/otherwise distracted - and come to that, possibly not in a controlled one either. I can't ever remember activating the ABS on either of my current bikes that have it - but I know I can clamp down with relative impunity if I have to.

[Birky_41]

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I'm sitting there on my bike with no help, no ABS, no aids, on the same roads, doing the same things and have no drama at all.

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

I could be a riding god of course... there is that..

Agreed I've heard that at biker cafe's when parked up and even on intercoms a couple times and questioned to myself based on their pace or what they were doing.

I've had a lot of my stuff kick in but I ride like a bit of a nob at times

[Birky_41]

Biker9090 said:

Show me where someone has said that?

Most are just mature enough to understand that they cannot acount for uncontrolled circumstances and panic reactions. I know full well I probably wouldn't be able to outbrake an ABS bike on an equivalent non ABS bike on a pissing wet road when I'm tired/otherwise distracted - and come to that, possibly not in a controlled one either. I can't ever remember activating the ABS on either of my current bikes that have it - but I know I can clamp down with relative impunity if I have to.

I've had it. Literally had a rider say on their Duc that they could feel the back end stepping out but light was flashing while at 30 degrees lean in the dry

Same with braking although I could believe it if you've ever ridden a Japanese basic bike with ABS which is trigger happy

[Kawasicki]

I’ve three old bikes, none have electronic safety systems and I’ve never needed them.

I’ve ridden modern bikes with can’t say I needed them either.

[KTMsm]

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

Interesting take on it... I've always thought the opposite, anyone who admits the electronics saves them are admitting they can't ride as well as those who haven't got them !

[Pebbles167]

It'll be nice to have them if things go wrong. Traction control probably would have saved me from a big off on my track bike that broke my back (which was luckily repairable).

[kurokawa]

many years ago on a wet rainny day
ABS on motorbike was still very rare
I was riding uphill near the top on my VFR800 ABS and could not see what behind the hill top
when i reach the top and start decenting, the car in front brake hard, and i brake hard in a bit of panic, ABS kick in.

I would prefer bike with it but I won't avoid a bike just because of not having it

[Wildfire]

I don't find them necessary, but I do like to have the extra envelope for the road. Especially when I was commuting in all weathers and all day. had a guy run a red light (by a lot), at night, in a bit of damp. ABS kicked in and I stopped. He then pushed me over trying to get away, which was super helpful..

Good tyres are a better bet though.

[Hungrymc]

Birky_41 said:

Same with braking although I could believe it if you've ever ridden a Japanese basic bike with ABS which is trigger happy

The last IMU bike I had was a 2016 S1000RR, quite an early version compared today. As with any quick bike, the wheelie control would often intervene. And the ABS would often be saying it had when I hadn't pushed it hard on the brakes. It wasn't preventing drama, and I wasn't riding like a knob. I'm sure the latest systems are a lot more subtle.

That was my point, people talking about the systems getting involved doesn't mean they were necessarily anywhere near an incident, and in the majority of cases, the rider would deal with it as normal riding. It also doesn't mean they were no where near an incident...

So I would say if anyone wants the aids or not should be based on their want for the safety net or not, as opposed to basing it on other peoples anecdotes.

I'm sure some people use the presence of rider aids to fly a little nearer the edge. I certainly didn't intentionally do that.

[Bob_Defly]

KTMsm said:

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

Interesting take on it... I've always thought the opposite, anyone who admits the electronics saves them are admitting they can't ride as well as those who haven't got them !

Same here. I've never heard anyone boast about user rider aids, seems very odd. If anything it's the opposite.

[Triaguar]

the cueball said:

I find the mentality around the electronics quite interesting..

I hear many a hero going on about how the t/c kicked in, they needed the ABS on that corner and OHHH MAWWWW GWAAAD the anti wheelie saved them..

I'm sitting there on my bike with no help, no ABS, no aids, on the same roads, doing the same things and have no drama at all.

I think most of them are full of it... they feel like it's some sort of macho thing to have your dashboard blinking lights at you rather than riding the bloody bike..

I could be a riding god of course... there is that..

I do get that and lots of people probably everyone that has contributed to this thread can ride a motorcycle adequately well with no dramas or any rider aids. That's not really the point of the thread though. If you can have them why would you not. My bike is a 200+ bhp and whilst I am quite proficient there are times when I lose concentration or something unexpected happens and you might just need a little extra help. Nothing to do with willy waving. Not doubting you may well be a riding God though.

[GYTRDave]

I see no reason why you'd not want them, I'm yet to come across a rider on the road that, on a superbike at least, is hindered by them.
I could go out tomorrow on the R1 and wap the settings up only to pull up for a brew and chat st on how the "TC was holding me back and the slide control wouldn't let me drift it" (I've actually heard this while stopped at a garage)

It's all subjective, but chances are the system are activating without you even knowing it, and have saved you a few times already.

The only place I can hand on heart say I've needed to reduce things like TC, slide control etc is racing, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

[airsafari87]

Skeptisk said:

If you currently ride new bikes, would you go back to one without the electronic aids

I currently ride both.
A 2002 SV650 with absolutely knack all rider aids.
And a 2022 Tuono with all of them.

If I was looking to buy a bike now and it didn’t have any rider aids it wouldn’t stop me from buying it if it was the bike I really wanted. I’d just ride it accordingly knowing that safety blanket wasn’t there, much like we all did back in the days when there wasn’t such a thing.
One thing I will say though is tyre technology for one has come on in the 20 years or so since these pre electronics bikes were around.

Also, I’ve managed to highside a 2019 BMW S1000 with electronics before, so they aren’t infallible.

ETA.
Take all these stories of TC kicking here and wheelie control preventing people from looping a bike with a pinch of salt.
If I wanted to I could turn everything up to the max on my new bike and have every light flashing away at me exiting every corner, junction, roundabout and whenever I opened the throttle.
Doesnt make me a riding god, nor does it mean it’s saving me from a crash every single time.

Edited by airsafari87 on Monday 11th March 18:15

[Hungrymc]

airsafari87 said:

Take all these stories of TC kicking here and wheelie control preventing people from looping a bike with a pinch of salt.
If I wanted to I could turn everything up to the max on my new bike and have every light flashing away at me exiting every corner, junction, roundabout and whenever I opened the throttle.
Doesnt make me a riding god, nor does it mean it’s saving me from a crash every single time.

That is exactly the point… The aids intervening is not an indication of the rider being saved, and it’s not an indicator of someone claiming to be a riding god. I don’t think I’ve read anything here that suggests they think they are. Has anyone said wheelie control saved them?

I think it’s exactly as you describe it.