600 RR v Fireblade

[epom]

Triaguar said:

moanthebairns said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/20240113...

£4500 grand off a brand new one, and a few others I've seen offering £2000-£3500 off. Guessing they aren't selling as they thought. At that price it has got me thinking about trading my blade in against one and sticking my Mrs on only fans.....

I don't think they are, because they couldn't sell me one and I am their biggest fan boy. I test rode one a couple of times and just couldn't gel with it, not very scientific I know, but it made the S1000rr an obvious choice.

New S1000RR ? were you able to get it without the Predator mouth ?

[Skeptisk]

Condi said:

Skeptisk said:

But that isn’t how things work in a capitalist economy (in general). Products get better over time but they also get cheaper.

They don't get cheaper, they get more expensive, which is what inflation measures. Some products get cheaper, due to economies of scale and improvements in manufacturing, but really you're talking about tech, or maybe drugs, or whatever. The raw materials don't generally get cheaper.

My point is that "inflation" which covers a basic basket of goods doesn't have any way to measure the Ohlins suspension, the Brembo brakes, the titanium exhaust, the TC, the ABS which are on the 2024 bike which were not on the 1997 bike. You're not getting the same product as you were in 1997, you're getting a much better product. Not only that, Honda are selling far fewer of them so the development and manufacturing costs are spread over a smaller number of bikes.

You can’t just look at inflation. You need to look at earnings too, as that impacts how “affordable” ie how cheap or expensive something is.

To illustrate with numbers.

If you started with the big 6 accounting firms back in 1997 you would have been paid around £18k and a CBR 600 was around £6,000 so you could have bought three with your salary (ignoring taxes). If you start today with the big 4 you get around £50k but the CBR600 is only £10.5k, so you could nearly buy 5 of them. So relatively the CBR600 has got cheaper as you don’t have to work for as long to buy one.

[bogie]

Skeptisk said:

You can’t just look at inflation. You need to look at earnings too, as that impacts how “affordable” ie how cheap or expensive something is.

To illustrate with numbers.

If you started with the big 6 accounting firms back in 1997 you would have been paid around £18k and a CBR 600 was around £6,000 so you could have bought three with your salary (ignoring taxes). If you start today with the big 4 you get around £50k but the CBR600 is only £10.5k, so you could nearly buy 5 of them. So relatively the CBR600 has got cheaper as you don’t have to work for as long to buy one.

Yep, agreed, mainstream bikes are as affordable ever. What has happened is the big brands pushed up the top end bikes on offer. No longer the limit of Bimota, MV Agusta or one off specials, there is a new category of high end Superbike available. As Superbikes became more niche and the need to win races the high end bikes are more like homologation specials. Bikes at this end of the market are tiny sellers compared to the mainstream so no doubt the development cost has to be recovered somewhere.

Meanwhile for the rider who values more comfort with your performance, you can choose from a selection of adventure or naked bikes with >150bhp

Thing is, many of us dream about the top of the range super high end bike, and that £30-40k Ducati or MV Agusta seems a long way out compared to 30 years ago when the mainstream 750 sports bike was £5k and a high end RC30 was £8k

[moanthebairns]

bogie said:

Skeptisk said:

You can’t just look at inflation. You need to look at earnings too, as that impacts how “affordable” ie how cheap or expensive something is.

To illustrate with numbers.

If you started with the big 6 accounting firms back in 1997 you would have been paid around £18k and a CBR 600 was around £6,000 so you could have bought three with your salary (ignoring taxes). If you start today with the big 4 you get around £50k but the CBR600 is only £10.5k, so you could nearly buy 5 of them. So relatively the CBR600 has got cheaper as you don’t have to work for as long to buy one.

Yep, agreed, mainstream bikes are as affordable ever. What has happened is the big brands pushed up the top end bikes on offer. No longer the limit of Bimota, MV Agusta or one off specials, there is a new category of high end Superbike available. As Superbikes became more niche and the need to win races the high end bikes are more like homologation specials. Bikes at this end of the market are tiny sellers compared to the mainstream so no doubt the development cost has to be recovered somewhere.

Meanwhile for the rider who values more comfort with your performance, you can choose from a selection of adventure or naked bikes with >150bhp

Thing is, many of us dream about the top of the range super high end bike, and that £30-40k Ducati or MV Agusta seems a long way out compared to 30 years ago when the mainstream 750 sports bike was £5k and a high end RC30 was £8k

I was 10 in 1997 and I don't work in accounts.... I feel I've missed out.

[Condi]

Skeptisk said:

You can’t just look at inflation. You need to look at earnings too, as that impacts how “affordable” ie how cheap or expensive something is.

To illustrate with numbers.

If you started with the big 6 accounting firms back in 1997 you would have been paid around £18k and a CBR 600 was around £6,000 so you could have bought three with your salary (ignoring taxes). If you start today with the big 4 you get around £50k but the CBR600 is only £10.5k, so you could nearly buy 5 of them. So relatively the CBR600 has got cheaper as you don’t have to work for as long to buy one.

That's a very arbitrary measure, using a Big 6 starting salary.

If you take an average measure across everyone then in 1999 average salary was £17,800 and in 2023 it was £34,960. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/)

On that basis (unless you are at a Big 6 accountancy firm!) then in 1999 you could have bought about 3 CBR600's, and today you can buy 3.5 CBR600's , so not that different.

Also, we were discussing the increase in price of a Fireblade, which comes from the OP;

Skeptisk said:

Back in the 90s my first bike was a ZX-6R. I seem to recall prices of 600s was around £6k whilst the litre bikes were around £10k. According to the inflation calculator £6000 in 1997 is more than £10,500 today. No such good comparison for the Fireblade.

The point is that while for a CBR600 it's a very similar bike to that of 20 years ago, the 'Blade is a much better product - better suspension, better brakes, TC, ABS etc, and all that has to be paid for which isn't measured in a simple inflation calculator.

[Skeptisk]

Condi said:

Skeptisk said:

You can’t just look at inflation. You need to look at earnings too, as that impacts how “affordable” ie how cheap or expensive something is.

To illustrate with numbers.

If you started with the big 6 accounting firms back in 1997 you would have been paid around £18k and a CBR 600 was around £6,000 so you could have bought three with your salary (ignoring taxes). If you start today with the big 4 you get around £50k but the CBR600 is only £10.5k, so you could nearly buy 5 of them. So relatively the CBR600 has got cheaper as you don’t have to work for as long to buy one.

That's a very arbitrary measure, using a Big 6 starting salary.

If you take an average measure across everyone then in 1999 average salary was £17,800 and in 2023 it was £34,960. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/)

On that basis (unless you are at a Big 6 accountancy firm!) then in 1999 you could have bought about 3 CBR600's, and today you can buy 3.5 CBR600's , so not that different.

Also, we were discussing the increase in price of a Fireblade, which comes from the OP;

Skeptisk said:

Back in the 90s my first bike was a ZX-6R. I seem to recall prices of 600s was around £6k whilst the litre bikes were around £10k. According to the inflation calculator £6000 in 1997 is more than £10,500 today. No such good comparison for the Fireblade.

The point is that while for a CBR600 it's a very similar bike to that of 20 years ago, the 'Blade is a much better product - better suspension, better brakes, TC, ABS etc, and all that has to be paid for which isn't measured in a simple inflation calculator.

I was using the big 6 as I remember what I paid when I started!

I don’t understand your point about the current CBR600RR being the same as a CBR 600 from 1997. Perhaps you never rode one in 1997! The current CBR600RR doesn’t have much more power - about 20 bhp - but in every other way is a lot better and different from the 1997 bike - better brakes, suspension, ABS, TC, rider modes, lean sensitive ABS.

I chose a CBR600RR as it was in the video (and a Honda) but if you went for a Street Triple RS that has Ohlins plus all the electronics for £11500.

I don’t think you are paying £24.5k for a Fireblade because it has better suspension. Like others have written, it is aimed at the fewer number of bikers who are willing to pay over the odds to get what they perceive to be the best.

[Condi]

Skeptisk said:

I don’t think you are paying £24.5k for a Fireblade because it has better suspension. Like others have written, it is aimed at the fewer number of bikers who are willing to pay over the odds to get what they perceive to be the best.

We shall agree to disagree, but the Ohlins, Brembo's and titanium exhaust, as well as the TC and ABS which were not there on a bike of 20 years ago don't come for free, and simply saying "inflation means it should be £X because 20 years ago it cost £Y" doesn't price in the improvements in the product.

[White-Noise]

I'm a casual observer to this thread and not a biker. One day will be. But this thread implied the 600 doesn't have TCS and abs which surprised me but it is available from my googles thus both models do

[Triaguar]

epom said:

Triaguar said:

moanthebairns said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/20240113...

£4500 grand off a brand new one, and a few others I've seen offering £2000-£3500 off. Guessing they aren't selling as they thought. At that price it has got me thinking about trading my blade in against one and sticking my Mrs on only fans.....

I don't think they are, because they couldn't sell me one and I am their biggest fan boy. I test rode one a couple of times and just couldn't gel with it, not very scientific I know, but it made the S1000rr an obvious choice.

New S1000RR ? were you able to get it without the Predator mouth ?

Not sure, don't get the analogy, it was new 2020

[Caddyshack]

White-Noise said:

I'm a casual observer to this thread and not a biker. One day will be. But this thread implied the 600 doesn't have TCS and abs which surprised me but it is available from my googles thus both models do

I believe the 600 gets some or all of the R1 electronics suite.

Modern stuff now has 6 axis imu so you get wheelie control, lean sensitive abs and lean sensitive traction control and many will have active or semi active suspension which will adapt to how you ride etc. there is a lot more to it with riding modes etc.

[black-k1]

I'm surprised BN hasn't been on yet to point out the bloody obvious; 600s are for girls and 1000s are for men, regardless of the cost!