I might want a sporty bike…

[Zarco]

Caddyshack said:

Caddyshack said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

We don’t really count that on cars though very often but it’s a very good point.

My Pug 205 is pretty much bang on 600per tonne with me in it.

WTF have you got under bonnet of your 205?

It’s a 4wd Cosworth with 2.2stroked Cossie engine that was £26k for the engine build alone (not my bill) and made 730hp on the engine dyno. I have it detuned to 630hp with a smaller turbo that spools up like an electric motor.

Mental.

I know we're talking about superbikes here, but that must absolutely rip.

[SteveKTMer]

I still miss my 2007 zx6r - much lighter than larger bikes, fantastic handling and brakes, revs to 16k, brilliant gearbox that was like a little switch. Very enjoyable on track and road. Fast but not really enough to get you locked up, just great fun. Later bikes get electronics etc

[Zarco]

SteveKTMer said:

I still miss my 2007 zx6r - much lighter than larger bikes, fantastic handling and brakes, revs to 16k, brilliant gearbox that was like a little switch. Very enjoyable on track and road. Fast but not really enough to get you locked up, just great fun. Later bikes get electronics etc

I miss my ZX6R too.

[Biker's Nemesis]

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

Caddyshack said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

We don’t really count that on cars though very often but it’s a very good point.

My Pug 205 is pretty much bang on 600per tonne with me in it.

WTF have you got under bonnet of your 205?

It’s a 4wd Cosworth with 2.2stroked Cossie engine that was £26k for the engine build alone (not my bill) and made 730hp on the engine dyno. I have it detuned to 630hp with a smaller turbo that spools up like an electric motor.

Mental.

I know we're talking about superbikes here, but that must absolutely rip.

I bet thats about as much fun as you can have in a car.

[Caddyshack]

Ken_Code said:

Caddyshack said:

I think I understand, so the bike will either wheelie or spin the wheel with much more power than that being used low down?

Wheelie, in general, rather than spin the rear as it doesn’t take much acceleration to transfer 100% of the bike’s weight to the rear wheel, after which applying any more power makes the front lift.

Superbikes don’t really accelerate any better up to 100mph nowadays than they did ten to twenty years ago.

The way to allow them to deploy more power is generally to lengthen the wheelbase and / or lower the centre of gravity.

Yes, my Multistrada has a 0-60 quoted in the low 3s and being long with clever suspension and electronics you can pretty much twist and go to get a really fast launch, I bet with no much skill I can get a fast dash….my sports bike is very hard.

[Biker9090]

I know it's not a full on sportsbike but it is a sportourer. I'm getting rid of my VFR1200F as it's just so unpleasant on the smaller/rougher roads. Plus my back hurts like hell after several hours on it.

I found myself rising the V Strom 1050XT SO MUCH faster than my VFR and it took maybe 60% of the effort to get to the same speeds.

I'm sad to say that I don't see the point in them anymore.

[Caddyshack]

Biker9090 said:

I know it's not a full on sportsbike but it is a sportourer. I'm getting rid of my VFR1200F as it's just so unpleasant on the smaller/rougher roads. Plus my back hurts like hell after several hours on it.

I found myself rising the V Strom 1050XT SO MUCH faster than my VFR and it took maybe 60% of the effort to get to the same speeds.

I'm sad to say that I don't see the point in them anymore.

The VFR1200 is a 170 hp bike. I would have thought it was pretty quick despite the high weight. I also assumed it would be very comfy.

[Caddyshack]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

Caddyshack said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

We don’t really count that on cars though very often but it’s a very good point.

My Pug 205 is pretty much bang on 600per tonne with me in it.

WTF have you got under bonnet of your 205?

It’s a 4wd Cosworth with 2.2stroked Cossie engine that was £26k for the engine build alone (not my bill) and made 730hp on the engine dyno. I have it detuned to 630hp with a smaller turbo that spools up like an electric motor.

Mental.

I know we're talking about superbikes here, but that must absolutely rip.

I bet thats about as much fun as you can have in a car.

I’ve had it spin all 4 wheels on a damp road in second gear. It is quite mind bending on full boost in low gears.

[black-k1]

Ken_Code said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

I don't have the weight of the rider, I am sure that the OP will be able to work it out with the information I have given about the H2.

Giving a calculation that assumes that he rider weighs zero was still stupid.

Rider weight is only important if there's going to be differnt riders on each bike. When a single rider is looking at two or more different bikes then the rider weight is consistent, so irrelevnt.

As BN says it's the spread rather than the peak that's important and the H2SX produces more than 200bhp from 8500rpm to 12500rpm.

At 265kg it's a "big old girl" but while it takes a bit of effort to turn in, the "grunt" makes getting out of the corners and down the straights quickly very easy.

[Ken_Code]

black-k1 said:

Rider weight is only important if there's going to be differnt riders on each bike. When a single rider is looking at two or more different bikes then the rider weight is consistent, so irrelevnt.
.

No, that’s wrong. Two bikes with the same “bare” power to weight ratios but different weights won’t have the same “total” powe to weight ratios with a rider on them.

[Caddyshack]

Ken_Code said:

black-k1 said:

Rider weight is only important if there's going to be differnt riders on each bike. When a single rider is looking at two or more different bikes then the rider weight is consistent, so irrelevnt.
.

No, that’s wrong. Two bikes with the same “bare” power to weight ratios but different weights won’t have the same “total” powe to weight ratios with a rider on them.

I think the poster was meaning the performance of the two bikes specifically for them. The actual power to weight figure would be different but the effect of their added weight is a constant figure.

Where the above would make a big difference is where you have a 150kilo bike with 80hp and a 250 kilo bike with 200hp and the associated torque. Putting a 100kilo rider on the 150 kilo bike would affect the performance.

[robinh73]

I have had many superbikes over the last few decades, then took time off road riding to race bikes and returned to road riding 4 years ago. I personally felt I couldn't get the enjoyment out of a superbike on the road, so ended up going for naked bikes and last year bought a new KTM Superduke 1290. It is absolutely brilliant. Bonkers engine, great chassis and huge smiles every time I ride it. Not what the OP was looking at, but just adding my little bit.

[Biker's Nemesis]

The original post in this thread is about wanting something fast as a last "hurrah", Hayabusa and a few others were mentioned.

I gave a power to weight figure as a datum point, anyone that has an idea about cars or bikes can relate to that. Simple enough yeah!

Then you turn up, and here we are....

Ken_Code said:

"The whole concept of BHP / tonne in bikes is a bit silly, it’s good for boasting in the McDonalds car park, but little else."

"Given how light bikes are and how high their C.O.G. Is relative to the wheelbase it just doesn’t matter very much once you are over 100bhp."

Power minus drag to mass is perhaps a better number if someone wants to do willy-waving.

"At low speed acceleration is limited by the wheelbase / COG issue, and by the time that’s no longer a problem drag to thrust has become significant."

"For any “conventional” bike geometry acceleration up to 100mph isn’t really improved very much by going from 100bhp to 1,000bhp."

"Giving a calculation that assumes that he rider weighs zero was still stupid."

"No, that’s wrong. Two bikes with the same “bare” power to weight ratios but different weights won’t have the same “total” powe to weight ratios with a rider on them."

OK, I'll stop quoting from your posts. So, as I've said for the 3rd time now, you type a lot of words that say nothing. They are also adding nothing to the original post.

I get the "feeling" that you give answers to questions that are never asked quite frequently and assume that no one on here can possibly know as much as you do.

[ChocolateFrog]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

Caddyshack said:

Zarco said:

Caddyshack said:

We don’t really count that on cars though very often but it’s a very good point.

My Pug 205 is pretty much bang on 600per tonne with me in it.

WTF have you got under bonnet of your 205?

It’s a 4wd Cosworth with 2.2stroked Cossie engine that was £26k for the engine build alone (not my bill) and made 730hp on the engine dyno. I have it detuned to 630hp with a smaller turbo that spools up like an electric motor.

Mental.

I know we're talking about superbikes here, but that must absolutely rip.

I bet thats about as much fun as you can have in a car.

If Binky was ever to get finished I'd love to see those 2 side by side.

[Ken_Code]

Biker's Nemesis said:

OK, I'll stop quoting from your posts. So, as I've said for the 3rd time now, you type a lot of words that say nothing. They are also adding nothing to the original post.

I get the "feeling" that you give answers to questions that are never asked quite frequently and assume that no one on here can possibly know as much as you do.

Trying to be snotty when getting picked up on you having posted something stupid like this just makes you come across as a bit dim.

[OutInTheShed]

Ken_Code said:

Wheelie, in general, rather than spin the rear as it doesn’t take much acceleration to transfer 100% of the bike’s weight to the rear wheel, after which applying any more power makes the front lift.

Superbikes don’t really accelerate any better up to 100mph nowadays than they did ten to twenty years ago.

The way to allow them to deploy more power is generally to lengthen the wheelbase and / or lower the centre of gravity.

Long wheelbase only really works for drag bikes, which tend to have rear weight bias to start with and no requirement to go around corners.

Mostly bikes are limited by friction, the aim of the game is to lift the front wheel at pretty much the same point the back wheel finds the limit of the tyre.
Too long and low a bike will spin the back wheel while there's siginificant weight still on the front.

[OutInTheShed]

Hungrymc said:

Hi all, I don’t have a sports bike at the moment but have the urge to get one for this summer. I’m generally enjoying a different side to bike these days but am thinking of a last hurrah with something bonkers. Shortlist was S1000RR, triumph 1200rr, Hayabusa and a few others.

Test rode a Hayabusa this week, I was on it for an hour. First impressions were the riding position is very small for a relatively large bike. It rolled side to side beautifully, the motor is obviously the main event and I was just hanging on to it when riding it hard. Because of the grunt and length, it felt quicker than the last s1000rr I owned. I’m sure it isn’t ultimately, but it piled the speed on so drama free without trying to wheelie etc like the BMW did.

Absolutely amazing bike, but I just don’t know when I’d use it over my others. I really think my age and the way the roads are policed has just put me off these bikes even though I still have the urge to run one…. What do you reckon? Can you talk me into it? Or am I lost cause and should go full pipe and slippers?

If you've got a big bike that's adequately fast and you're looking for something else, how about something small and hectic?
A light, high revving 4, maybe a 400 or 600cc?
Bimota:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315275505335

Priller:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386930621110

[Biker's Nemesis]

Ken_Code said:

Trying to be snotty when getting picked up on you having posted something stupid like this just makes you come across as a bit dim.

Ok.

I'll leave it at this. You have again said nothing. I could throw a open tin of Spaghetti Hoops in the air and when it landed its spilt contents would make more sense than you.

[Kickstart]

Has PistonHeads really come to this that we cannot even have a chat about fast bikes without an argument breaking out
Well done

[Hungrymc]

The power to weight discussion has me feeling a little paranoid. I mean, yes, I’ve let myself go a little, but still ….. :-)

Lots of interesting ideas. I’ve never had something small and screamy, is worth thinking about. That’s a real change in direction as what I think I was looking for was something that encourages carrying corner speed, but really grunty so I don’t need to be hammering through gears. Probably something with more weight over the front wheel than my multistrada.

I’m not sure that sounds like a Busa or a H2… I guess it’s impossible to pick a bike when you’re not quite sure what you want.

I’m also starting to think my Busa test ride had the lift control left on high. I did play with the traction control but not the lift … wonder if that’s why it just seemed to gather speed with no drama.

ETA…. The one thing I do know is that I now want a 205/Cossie hybrid… that must be bonkers.