Supercharged Bike engine

[sam919]

Hi,

Has anyone had any experience of supercharging Busa and ZX14 engines to around 300 reliable bhp?What sort of charger, engine mods to deal with power increase etc, i have had a look at TTS's site.

Thanks

Edited by sam919 on Saturday 23 February 16:02

[bimsb6]

why then do you need to go elswhere ?

[sam919]

Thats helpful, thanks

Edited by sam919 on Saturday 23 February 18:53

[bimsb6]

you're welcome .

[sam919]

[Busa_Rush]

sam919 said:

Hi,

Has anyone had any experience of supercharging Busa and ZX14 engines to around 300 reliable bhp?What sort of charger, engine mods to deal with power increase etc, i have had a look at TTS's site.

Thanks

Edited by sam919 on Saturday 23 February 16:02

Rotrex C30-94 on a busa engine from TTS. (Centrifugal supercharger, not a screw type, basically a turbo compressor on the end of a 10:1 step up gearbox driven from the crank) MBE 992 ECU and loom with AiM datalogger and dash integrated onto ECU loom (don't try it with a power commander !), large intercooler, larger coolant radiator, electric water pump controlled by ECU, plenum chamber with large injectors and bigger fuel rail, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, engine work includes modified JE pistons, Carillo H rods, spacer plate to lower compression, reprofiled cams, stronger gearbox output shaft, undercut dogs on gearbox, then a days mapping.

It's not cheap, no where near as cheap as some people would suggest but the result on mine is incredible, the boost rises linearly with engine speed so there's no sudden rush of power, just a smooth progression. Mine is making about 340bhp at the crank, some of that is consumed by the supercharger and some by the gearbox/diff etc

Want to buy mine ? It comes with a car

[sam919]

Thats quite a bit of setting up. Unfortunatly the garage is fully loaded at the mo, just sold the fury. Looking at something for next year now, the GT-R from spire is going to have a ZX lump in it according to the website.
What sort of budget did you set yourself for the engine alone, do you think there are areas that might not be needed in the spec if only looking for 300hp. How much does the rush weigh?

Thanks

[Busa_Rush]

The Rush weighs about 510Kg. A basic engine refresh will cost £1200 from TTS/Extreme/Mistral etc, so add pistons, rods and a few other bits and you have best part of £3k plus optional exras like cams if you wanted them.

[podman]

For some reason(mainly numerous reliability issues, for which I have to say TTS seem to get a slating) supercharging isnt that popular with the 200MPH club...Turbo seems to be way and above the favoured method for forced induction with the busa boys..

[Busa_Rush]

podman said:

For some reason(mainly numerous reliability issues, for which I have to say TTS seem to get a slating) supercharging isnt that popular with the 200MPH club...Turbo seems to be way and above the favoured method for forced induction with the busa boys..

The very early Rotrex super chargers had gearbox problems, they are the ones you sometimes see on eBay. I guess that could be the reason. The rest of the basic conversion is the same as offered by Holeshot, BigCC etc - spacer plate, pistons, power commander if used etc - they are all the same.

A turbo is a cheaper way to get 500bhp for top speed runs, if all you want to do is go really fast in a straight line then a GT35R, some massive injectors and a power commander is hard to beat :-)

If on the other hand you want to go round corners then a big turbo doesn't feel so good.

[Beemer-5]

Exhaust gas is free, superchargers need driving!

For a bike, get a turbo!

Low boost and you're well away!

[Busa_Rush]

Beemer-5 said:

Exhaust gas is free, superchargers need driving!

For a bike, get a turbo!

Low boost and you're well away!

I take it from that you're an autobahn rider, not a twisty rider

[podman]

If you have a chat with Sean at Big CC or get to go on one of his bikes, he'll tell you the newer breed of turbo's in motorcycling applications Vs a car engined conversion(bikes being smaller CC,lighter pistons, low friction, higher revving)have virtually indetectable lag.

Superchargers sound cool, which they are I guess but Vs a well managed turbo install they offer nothing extra but present additional problems..The TTS Busa had the belts and pulleys hanging all out the side of it and would certainly run into more handling issues than a stealthy turbo install.

[Busa_Rush]

podman said:

If you have a chat with Sean at Big CC or get to go on one of his bikes, he'll tell you the newer breed of turbo's in motorcycling applications Vs a car engined conversion(bikes being smaller CC,lighter pistons, low friction, higher revving)have virtually indetectable lag.

Superchargers sound cool, which they are I guess but Vs a well managed turbo install they offer nothing extra but present additional problems..The TTS Busa had the belts and pulleys hanging all out the side of it and would certainly run into more handling issues than a stealthy turbo install.

How do you think a supercharged bike will have more handling problems than a turbo bike ? That doesn't compute.

There is a kit that mounts the supercharger where the water pump fits which gives a tidier install on a bike, the belt driven kit is more suited to cars.

[Beemer-5]

Busa_Rush said:

Beemer-5 said:

Exhaust gas is free, superchargers need driving!

For a bike, get a turbo!

Low boost and you're well away!

I take it from that you're an autobahn rider, not a twisty rider

Then you need to read my posts more carefully.......

[Beemer-5]

Busa_Rush said:

podman said:

If you have a chat with Sean at Big CC or get to go on one of his bikes, he'll tell you the newer breed of turbo's in motorcycling applications Vs a car engined conversion(bikes being smaller CC,lighter pistons, low friction, higher revving)have virtually indetectable lag.

Superchargers sound cool, which they are I guess but Vs a well managed turbo install they offer nothing extra but present additional problems..The TTS Busa had the belts and pulleys hanging all out the side of it and would certainly run into more handling issues than a stealthy turbo install.

How do you think a supercharged bike will have more handling problems than a turbo bike ? That doesn't compute.

There is a kit that mounts the supercharger where the water pump fits which gives a tidier install on a bike, the belt driven kit is more suited to cars.

Sorry but Podman is right.
The small, light, modern turbochargers, when running low boost, are ideal for bikes.
Superchargers, like the one on my Jag, are great, but the VERY light weight of a bike, compared to a car, means that the biggets advantage a SC has is not an issue.
The biggest advantage a TC has, IS useful on a bike.
Less losses making the extra power!

[Cafuddled]

I think the biggest thing you will need would be a petrol tank extension to keep it running past the nearest petrol station from your self. I wonder what it would be like with 300BHP… I only have 110BHP and that’s almost killed me a few times…

[sam919]

Turbo charging seems to be the cheaper option going by Holeshot racings prices. Supercharging seems to be is slightly more expensive.

The choice between the two is going to have to be supercharging as the smoother the drive the more consistent the lap time. The low down torque will also be an advantage on the tracks i usually race, top end wise the torque factor will fit in with adjusting outside tyre diameter or gear ratios.

Thanks for your comments

[Beemer-5]

Cafuddled said:

I think the biggest thing you will need would be a petrol tank extension to keep it running past the nearest petrol station from your self. I wonder what it would be like with 300BHP… I only have 110BHP and that’s almost killed me a few times…

My ZZR 14 turbo had 303 bhp and was docile off-boost, no problems at all.
It ran low-ish boost and was never too bad, even when 'going for it'.

1300cc/1400cc bikes, with huge amounts of boost, turning out 500 and 600 bhp, is where it gets pointless for the road.

[Big CC racing]

The Rotrex Charger is not a good unit. I have seen several spill the oil into the intakes, the step up ratio generates heat & on the bikes I have dynod they generate less power than a standard bike up to 4500rpm.

If you own a heavy old Volvo car then a small turbo is ideal for fast spool up to get you going, but on a bike it will plant you on your arse hence larger turbo units are generally preffered with a slightly lazier spool giving controllable power delivery which also assists in the combat of higher inlet temperatures. As bikes can not successfully fit intercoolers under their bodywork.

That being that a 6psi boost run on a typical turbocharged Hayabusa slaughters everywhere on a dyno overlay 10psi of boost from a Rotrex. Figures typically from the rotrex are 220 to 230bhp & the turbo running 4 psi less boost is 250 to 260bhp.

Even taking into account belt losses the Rotrex has a shabby showing.