So will it be Rossi or Stoner this year?
Discussion
Rawwr said:
Stoner's biggest problem is that he isn't Rossi 
Most profound comment on this thread- & probably right.dern said:
There's no way on this planet they'd tolerate Melandri being near last if they could do anything about it by giving him the same bike as Stoner has and I don't believe Melandri is as bad a rider as the positions he is achieving. If Stoner's bike was as easy to ride as everyone is making out Melandri would be coming in second. He isn't.
1. So why couldn't Ducati give MM same bike as Stoner? Also how & why are they different apart from rider preferences on settings?2. I agree that Melandri has actually a good history of results in all classes & has shown himself to justify being in GPs generally (all classes) so his current form is a contradiction. I wonder if his past history of getting beaten up(remember that nasty one with Gibernau & Capirossi etc) then moving onto the Duke has bashed his confidence about a bit.
3. I'm not sure anyone's saying the Duke is easy to ride-maybe the opposite- but my opinion is that the way it's set up-power & delivery/electronics/traction control etc may very well just suit Stoner's "go for it" style.
The above are of course just IMHO ..and management cannot be held responsible....etc
sprinter885 said:
dern said:
There's no way on this planet they'd tolerate Melandri being near last if they could do anything about it by giving him the same bike as Stoner has and I don't believe Melandri is as bad a rider as the positions he is achieving. If Stoner's bike was as easy to ride as everyone is making out Melandri would be coming in second. He isn't.
1. So why couldn't Ducati give MM same bike as Stoner? Also how & why are they different apart from rider preferences on settings?Rawwr said:
Rocket Pepper said:
Stoner was shagged when he got off the Duc. He didn't seem that chuffed either.
Well, he had been throwing up for most of the morning and nearly puked on Matt Roberts during the post-race interview Oh, and my vote goes to Mr Rossi.
Stoner's biggest problem is he just can't ride like Rossi.
That's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
That's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
Rocket Pepper said:
Stoner's biggest problem is he just can't ride like Rossi.
That's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
RPThat's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
Your either trying to wind the message board up or you have some crazy Stoner fetish, so if Stoner wins this weekend can we assume you will eat your Valle baseball cap.
Rocket Pepper said:
Stoner's biggest problem is he just can't ride like Rossi.
That's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
You are underestimating the talents of Casey Stoner, with all due respect (to Rossi) why would you want Casey to ride like Rossi? If he did, Rossi would be beating him and thats not happening That's the problem. Everyone knows Rossi is still the best. Unlike in F1 though when Schumacher had the best car, best team, best of everything in fact, Schumacher still displayed a level of driving nearly all of the time that other fantastic drivers still couldn't aspire to.
In Moto GP, Rossi has sometimes taken the somewhat underdog route, and he still, like Schumacher, displays a level of riding nearly all of the time that other fantastic riders still can't aspire to.
All that's happened since the four stroke era is rider aids are playing a big part in helping some not so greats become greats, based on statistics achieved by having superior bike/tyre/electronics packages, and not great rider input the likes of what (for example) Rossi does display frequently, be it on a worn out tyre, in the wet, or coming through the field on a lame donkey.
Conclusion, Stoner will maybe become a great super bike rider. Moto GP will spit him out by next season where he'll languish midfield dreaming of the glory days when Ducati were lucky enough to out smart the Japanese. I don't think Ducatis rise to the top and at the top is sustainable in Moto GP. Once it's over, it will slide fast, taking Stoner or whoever with it. And I like my Ducatis.
Interestingly everyone said in 2007 Casey wouldnt last year another season, now he wont last in 2009, the ducati is no good at certain tracks, Casey is a one-hit wonder, your running out of excuses. Its hard to accept but Rossi domination had to come to an end at some point, Casey is here to stay and apart from Rossi I dont see anyone out there good enough to stop him and the mighty Ducati.
Jetl3on said:
Its hard to accept but Rossi domination had to come to an end at some point, Casey is here to stay and apart from Rossi I dont see anyone out there good enough to stop him and the mighty Ducati.
Rossi's domination won't come to an end. Rossi will retire when he sees fit. When he does we will not see the likes of someone taking over his mantle. All we'll see is someone taking up the place Rossi vacated. Not many show a natural talent like Rossi. Certainly no one has bottled it in such a sustainable quantity like Rossi has. Steve Hislop had it, but not every day. Casey Stoner will never have it. He's just another good racer is all and I fail to see what everyone into him gets so excited by. It's not like we've seen him put some masterclass overtakes together on his way to his title shot. He's shown the odd brilliance in that class, but then who hasn't? Even his bird is looking a little run down these past few races. The pressure will get to him when Rossi puts another win on him. And thank you but let's leave the troll comments out of it please. These are just my opinions. Nothing more.
I'm a big fan of Stoner's and his work ethic.
Just like Doohan, no slow laps just on it constantly.
I do admire Rossi as a rider but am pretty bored with the hype and the football hooligan element that follows him.
Don't forget, marco can ride a bike !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AGqPlgsGck
Just like Doohan, no slow laps just on it constantly.
I do admire Rossi as a rider but am pretty bored with the hype and the football hooligan element that follows him.
Don't forget, marco can ride a bike !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AGqPlgsGck
Rocket Pepper said:
Jetl3on said:
Its hard to accept but Rossi domination had to come to an end at some point, Casey is here to stay and apart from Rossi I dont see anyone out there good enough to stop him and the mighty Ducati.
Rossi's domination won't come to an end. Rossi will retire when he sees fit. When he does we will not see the likes of someone taking over his mantle. All we'll see is someone taking up the place Rossi vacated. Not many show a natural talent like Rossi. Certainly no one has bottled it in such a sustainable quantity like Rossi has. Steve Hislop had it, but not every day. Casey Stoner will never have it. He's just another good racer is all and I fail to see what everyone into him gets so excited by. It's not like we've seen him put some masterclass overtakes together on his way to his title shot. He's shown the odd brilliance in that class, but then who hasn't? Even his bird is looking a little run down these past few races. The pressure will get to him when Rossi puts another win on him. And thank you but let's leave the troll comments out of it please. These are just my opinions. Nothing more.
Im not disputing he will retire at his leisure, he is possibly the best rider there ever was, his charisma and ability to entertain is unprecedented, I totally agree with you, I admire him and love watching him race (who doesnt), but you cannot use the word domination and Rossi in the same sentence anymore, that mantle has now been handed to Casey and for good reason.
It sounds like you want to see another Rossi takeover, (lorenzo maybe?) But I dont personally, everyone has to stake their own claim in history to be considered great, there can only be one Tiger Woods, Senna, Sampras, Ali, Rossi...
And Casey is doing just that, Pole position, fastest lap and race win? Nothing short of brilliant from the boy and there is no sign it is going to end soon, unlike Rossi`s career.
When he does retire, I will raise my hat to him, and raise a glass to a new era and a new dominant force, Casey Stoner.
Jetl3on said:
Errr...but his domination already has come to an end
Different strokes, different bikes, different rules. All that's happened is Ducati came out on top at the start of a new era. Ducatis man of the moment, great as he is, is capitalising on Ducatis cresting wave. Rossi is by far the best rider out their every weekend. That his bike and his talent can't overcome the winning formula of Ducati and Stoner for 1 season only does not mean Rossi is no longer dominant. For all your Stoner credits, who is leading the championship at the moment? That would be the dominant one. His name is Rossi by 17 points.Rocket Pepper said:
Jetl3on said:
Errr...but his domination already has come to an end
Different strokes, different bikes, different rules. All that's happened is Ducati came out on top at the start of a new era. Ducatis man of the moment, great as he is, is capitalising on Ducatis cresting wave. Rossi is by far the best rider out their every weekend. That his bike and his talent can't overcome the winning formula of Ducati and Stoner for 1 season only does not mean Rossi is no longer dominant. For all your Stoner credits, who is leading the championship at the moment? That would be the dominant one. His name is Rossi by 17 points.Yamaha has the better bike, we can see that, but Casey has the form, not just last season, but clearly this one as well.
This is reminiscent of Rossi winning 6 races in 2006 and Hayden winning the title with 2 race wins. The better man did not win that season, but for Rossi`s arrogance (and falling off) he would have won.
Rossi may be leading, but he is not the best out there (on current form) it is a 3 way tie for a reason. Those 2 young guns have caught up with him last year and this year, just look at the fo0rm of all 3 rdiers to see that.
His title chances are not over, far from it, but his Dominance of the sport as he did previously is.
If the electronics packages are so good to be able to make average riders look so good, why is it that the multiple world champions in the field aren't just clearing off then ? Where's Capirossi, Melandri, Toseland, Edwards, Hayden and the list goes on . . . It simply isn't that easy to ride any of these machines the way Stoner is riding that Ducati, if it were I'd be doing it.
When Rossi truly dominated he was on the Honda. Arguably (pretty much without question) the best bike out there, and everyone credited it as being down to the bike. Which drove his own growing frustration to move to Yamaha and develop that bike into what the journo's testing it at the end of the year argue is the best all round package out there. Then won on it, twice.
Rossi was without doubt in my view the best rider in the field on the Honda and proved so. It had advanced electronics. He didn't do all his throttle control with his wrist
The Yamaha was built around him, Schumacher style if you like.
Since the move to Yamaha he has not doninated the field consistently year in and out. Does that mean therefore that it was the Honda after all ?
He is credited with winning on the Yamaha in the first season on a bike that was inferior, it's a mantle that's stuck and I think people want to believe he's on the inferior machine, the stats prove that it certainly isn't and the journos review at the end of the year will affirm the view that it's the best all round package I am certain.
In the current field, for all of us who have been to see these guys in action Stoners machine seems to have the least intervention out there. Stoners riding style is to be utterly applauded, as he is totally committed much like Hayden is, hence why I think it could be a real partnership for next season.
Rossi's dominance is over. His opportunity for true greatness in my view is winning the title this year against Pedrosa and Stoner as they are the best competition he faces in GP's. He's not won the title for a couple of seasons, a position that he is not used to, he has only recently come off his poorest run of results in his entire GP career and he has switched tyre manufacturer.
If he manages to do it this year, in a straight fight without the competition crashing etc then it will be one of his greatest achievements and I think he'd agree.
I was at Oulton Park the year Quinny was as well and I've watched Stoner at most of the British circuits and through GP's in 125' and 250's. It was evident then he had a talent that could go far and was recognised during his 250 career as a MotoGP future champion due to his style. Camier and Davies who regularly beat him, not forgetting Coates as well didn't get the breaks I'm sad to say . . .
When Rossi truly dominated he was on the Honda. Arguably (pretty much without question) the best bike out there, and everyone credited it as being down to the bike. Which drove his own growing frustration to move to Yamaha and develop that bike into what the journo's testing it at the end of the year argue is the best all round package out there. Then won on it, twice.
Rossi was without doubt in my view the best rider in the field on the Honda and proved so. It had advanced electronics. He didn't do all his throttle control with his wrist
The Yamaha was built around him, Schumacher style if you like.Since the move to Yamaha he has not doninated the field consistently year in and out. Does that mean therefore that it was the Honda after all ?
He is credited with winning on the Yamaha in the first season on a bike that was inferior, it's a mantle that's stuck and I think people want to believe he's on the inferior machine, the stats prove that it certainly isn't and the journos review at the end of the year will affirm the view that it's the best all round package I am certain.In the current field, for all of us who have been to see these guys in action Stoners machine seems to have the least intervention out there. Stoners riding style is to be utterly applauded, as he is totally committed much like Hayden is, hence why I think it could be a real partnership for next season.
Rossi's dominance is over. His opportunity for true greatness in my view is winning the title this year against Pedrosa and Stoner as they are the best competition he faces in GP's. He's not won the title for a couple of seasons, a position that he is not used to, he has only recently come off his poorest run of results in his entire GP career and he has switched tyre manufacturer.
If he manages to do it this year, in a straight fight without the competition crashing etc then it will be one of his greatest achievements and I think he'd agree.
I was at Oulton Park the year Quinny was as well and I've watched Stoner at most of the British circuits and through GP's in 125' and 250's. It was evident then he had a talent that could go far and was recognised during his 250 career as a MotoGP future champion due to his style. Camier and Davies who regularly beat him, not forgetting Coates as well didn't get the breaks I'm sad to say . . .
I'm hoping to be at the Growl. Might even bring a Growler with me, lol.
Forget all the points and prizes, the best rider out there is Rossi. That's the dominant force I speak of. Put it another way. Your Stoner's, Pedrosa's, Lorenzo's, whoever, they all want to beat one man. His name is...........
Forget all the points and prizes, the best rider out there is Rossi. That's the dominant force I speak of. Put it another way. Your Stoner's, Pedrosa's, Lorenzo's, whoever, they all want to beat one man. His name is...........
Rocket Pepper said:
I'm hoping to be at the Growl. Might even bring a Growler with me, lol.
Forget all the points and prizes, the best rider out there is Rossi. That's the dominant force I speak of. Put it another way. Your Stoner's, Pedrosa's, Lorenzo's, whoever, they all want to beat one man. His name is...........
Indeed, but one man already has, and his name is.....Forget all the points and prizes, the best rider out there is Rossi. That's the dominant force I speak of. Put it another way. Your Stoner's, Pedrosa's, Lorenzo's, whoever, they all want to beat one man. His name is...........
Edited by Jetl3on on Friday 18th July 18:48
Rawwr said:
Beemer-5 said:
Great though he is, Stoner does have the best bike, as someone a few posts up rightly explained.
lol, ok, so we've already proved it's not the fastest bike on the grid and we know its far from being the most nimble on the grid - so what measure of 'best' are you using? Nicest colour?Guess what? You're wrong again.
(Just for a change. LMFAO!
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