Honda's new V5 VFR
Discussion
I read the article in MCN on this bike with interest. TBH I cannot see the point in this bike at all, It seems a pointless exercise. It doesn't make any more power than a litre in-line four. It's bound to cost more than the VFR it replaces. MCN's artist impression doesn't look particularly pretty (although obviously this may not be a fair representation). What do you guys think?
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
rhinochopig said:
I read the article in MCN on this bike with interest. TBH I cannot see the point in this bike at all, It seems a pointless exercise. It doesn't make any more power than a litre in-line four. It's bound to cost more than the VFR it replaces. MCN's artist impression doesn't look particularly pretty (although obviously this may not be a fair representation). What do you guys think?
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You're absolutely right. What the hell are Honda thinking of? Why would we want to buy anything with new innovations, updates and more power? They keep improving models and expect us to buy them. They should have just left things as they were with the CB750 back in '72. There was nothing wrong with that. And why do manufacturers insist on selling bikes in different colours. It only makes it difficult to choose. Now, if they were all black....To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You were joking, right?
AdeTuono said:
rhinochopig said:
I read the article in MCN on this bike with interest. TBH I cannot see the point in this bike at all, It seems a pointless exercise. It doesn't make any more power than a litre in-line four. It's bound to cost more than the VFR it replaces. MCN's artist impression doesn't look particularly pretty (although obviously this may not be a fair representation). What do you guys think?
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You're absolutely right. What the hell are Honda thinking of? Why would we want to buy anything with new innovations, updates and more power? They keep improving models and expect us to buy them. They should have just left things as they were with the CB750 back in '72. There was nothing wrong with that. And why do manufacturers insist on selling bikes in different colours. It only makes it difficult to choose. Now, if they were all black....To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You were joking, right?
If you'd actually bothered to read past the second line you'd have realised that I was not criticising innovation on Honda's part, mainly suggesting that there was perhaps a better application for race derived engine than a touring bike.
rhinochopig said:
There is absolutely no need to be facetious -
Agreed..... a bit unnecessary.. Everyone is entitled to their opinion..Its a toughy about the VFR.. Honda do seem to like to showcase some of their technology on this bike.. With the VTEC system etc which the only other bikes to use it i think were some home-market 400's..
I personally think the VTEC was a step too far for the 800 and going larger capacity would be a better route.
with the IL4's hitting near 200bhp now im struggling to see the advantage of going hi-tech with a V5 in the 'Blade etc.
rhinochopig said:
AdeTuono said:
rhinochopig said:
I read the article in MCN on this bike with interest. TBH I cannot see the point in this bike at all, It seems a pointless exercise. It doesn't make any more power than a litre in-line four. It's bound to cost more than the VFR it replaces. MCN's artist impression doesn't look particularly pretty (although obviously this may not be a fair representation). What do you guys think?
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You're absolutely right. What the hell are Honda thinking of? Why would we want to buy anything with new innovations, updates and more power? They keep improving models and expect us to buy them. They should have just left things as they were with the CB750 back in '72. There was nothing wrong with that. And why do manufacturers insist on selling bikes in different colours. It only makes it difficult to choose. Now, if they were all black....To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You were joking, right?
If you'd actually bothered to read past the second line you'd have realised that I was not criticising innovation on Honda's part, mainly suggesting that there was perhaps a better application for race derived engine than a touring bike.
I was merely responding to your comments that the bike is a pointless excercise. I would suggest that the new bike is far from a pointless exercise, given that the RC45 also used the engine from a 'touring' bike. Maybe they've got plans for a new WSB bike? I don't know. I'm sure a company such as Honda know what they're doing, whatever you may think. FWIW, this could be the first Honda that I'd be tempted by for many years.
Hope this hasn't offended you. You're obviously a delicate little flower.
king 1.AdeTuono said:
rhinochopig said:
AdeTuono said:
rhinochopig said:
I read the article in MCN on this bike with interest. TBH I cannot see the point in this bike at all, It seems a pointless exercise. It doesn't make any more power than a litre in-line four. It's bound to cost more than the VFR it replaces. MCN's artist impression doesn't look particularly pretty (although obviously this may not be a fair representation). What do you guys think?
To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You're absolutely right. What the hell are Honda thinking of? Why would we want to buy anything with new innovations, updates and more power? They keep improving models and expect us to buy them. They should have just left things as they were with the CB750 back in '72. There was nothing wrong with that. And why do manufacturers insist on selling bikes in different colours. It only makes it difficult to choose. Now, if they were all black....To my mind the V5 should have been fitted to a Desmodicci [sp?] rival. Granted the NR750 didn't sell well, but times have changed and Ducati have proved that an exclusive GP influenced bike will sell.
You were joking, right?
If you'd actually bothered to read past the second line you'd have realised that I was not criticising innovation on Honda's part, mainly suggesting that there was perhaps a better application for race derived engine than a touring bike.
I was merely responding to your comments that the bike is a pointless excercise. I would suggest that the new bike is far from a pointless exercise, given that the RC45 also used the engine from a 'touring' bike. Maybe they've got plans for a new WSB bike? I don't know. I'm sure a company such as Honda know what they're doing, whatever you may think. FWIW, this could be the first Honda that I'd be tempted by for many years.
Hope this hasn't offended you. You're obviously a delicate little flower.
given my height and weight, a delicate little flower is not the first thing that would spring to mind in describing me.Anyway, you hit the nail on the hid with the RC analogy. I would have thought that a V5 would have been fitted into an RC bike first before it goes into a tourer as has been Honda's tradition. When I wrote the post, MCN reported that Honda would not be making a V5 GP rep, which to my mind makes their proposed bike a bit pointless. Craig seems to suggest otherwise, which is a good thing.
The reason the old VFR was so successful was that it was a good compromise between sports bike and tourer. If you wanted more speed, you opted for the Blackbird. If you wanted better handling, you bought a blade. The VFR sat happily in between the two and offered a useful amount of power, but not excessive.
The new bike is likely to be more expensive to buy and own and it's power puts it too close to the Blackbird. If you want a 150bhp tourer, the chances are you'd want more if it was available and buy a Blackbird instead. That leaves Blade owners as a possible market, but it won't handle as well as a blade. Couple this to it costing more (probably) than both and I cannot see the market for it.
However, if you were to fit into a sharp handling, lightweight chassis with GP looks and give 180-190 bhp and sell it for 1098 money, then I could see them selling by the bucket load. It would also reduce the unit costs for the engine which would make the VFR V5 cheaper.
This may be Honda's approach, if Craig is correct in his suggestion.
One final thing, Honda don't always know what they're doing. They are a brilliant engineering company but don't always get it right - NR750 and their 500cc 4 stroke racer to name but two.
Car companies don't always use the highest performing model to showcase their latest technologies. If they did, it would beg questions about their 'flagship' model when they released the improved v2 technology in lesser models in the range. They often use upper mid-range models which they know they can charge a premium for to justify the new tech, whilst the target customers of such models do not necessarily demand/expect the tech to be ultra-performant. Manufacturers refine the new tech from lessons learned in the mid-range model and can simultaneously justify an even higher premium in the, by then, long awaited flagship bristling with v2 of the technology.
Porsche do this: they use the Cayenne as an introductory showcase for all the latest tech: direct injection, Dynamic chassis control, etc appear first on the Cayenne. 1-2 years later? They appear on the standard 911s. Then they appear even later in the TT/GT2/GT3 models.
I'm not at all surprised that Honda is launching the V5 on the VFR: the VFR model fits in perfectly as a model well known by the masses to showcase the latest that Honda can do. A sports tourer, it is not expected to be as high performing as a Blade, but it is renown for being a feature laden/comfortable/all-purpose bike that scratches as well as it cruises. It is creating buzzing waves before launch, and people will only wonder what Honda will do with the tech in the next 2-3 years in the new Blade. In short - their marketing is working perfectly... based even on the limited commentary in this thread.
Porsche do this: they use the Cayenne as an introductory showcase for all the latest tech: direct injection, Dynamic chassis control, etc appear first on the Cayenne. 1-2 years later? They appear on the standard 911s. Then they appear even later in the TT/GT2/GT3 models.
I'm not at all surprised that Honda is launching the V5 on the VFR: the VFR model fits in perfectly as a model well known by the masses to showcase the latest that Honda can do. A sports tourer, it is not expected to be as high performing as a Blade, but it is renown for being a feature laden/comfortable/all-purpose bike that scratches as well as it cruises. It is creating buzzing waves before launch, and people will only wonder what Honda will do with the tech in the next 2-3 years in the new Blade. In short - their marketing is working perfectly... based even on the limited commentary in this thread.
The best 1000cc in line 4 cylinder sports bikes have circa 175 bhp, for their circa 175 kgs.
No way, as a road bike, is even the Honda V5 motor going to move the game on much, in terms of outright performance.
But what the engine is, is different and will have twice the charater of a 999/4 pot.
No way, as a road bike, is even the Honda V5 motor going to move the game on much, in terms of outright performance.
But what the engine is, is different and will have twice the charater of a 999/4 pot.
Beemer-5 said:
The best 1000cc in line 4 cylinder sports bikes have circa 175 bhp, for their circa 175 kgs.
No way, as a road bike, is even the Honda V5 motor going to move the game on much, in terms of outright performance.
But what the engine is, is different and will have twice the charater of a 999/4 pot.
Latest technology often does not target outright performance. No way, as a road bike, is even the Honda V5 motor going to move the game on much, in terms of outright performance.
But what the engine is, is different and will have twice the charater of a 999/4 pot.
Get an old skool turbo'd Busa or similar if that's your aim.
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