By the looks of it he got what he deserved
Discussion
Xenocide said:
cyberface said:
Anyone contradict me on this, and say that the copper's moves were all safe? Why the hell would the controller put the copper on the bike in such danger? Or do you reckon the cop was enjoying ragging the arse off an unmarked bike free of prosecution? Again, his voice didn't indicate he was either exhilarated, or calm and controlled, he sounded flustered as hell and having to focus like hell to keep up... which from a top-trained rider means he was beyond the safe limits.
Do you think, for example, Rossi would be unsafe at those speeds? I'm sure he's not done police training. Saying they're the best trained and therefore the best riders is somewhat short sighted. Riding on the road is dictated much more by the actions of others than racing on a track, where it's you, the bike and the road (and a few other racers going the same way). And the cops' training is focused on the road, otherwise given the increased risk we'd see lots of dead police bikers and few people entering the constabulary to ride bikes...
I've had a look at the video now, and I have to say there's a definite difference to the rider of the subject bike and the Police rider, who correctly points out that the subject is rubbish at bends.
I'd have to agree, as he's taking what looks like more of a "racing line", although he's not apexing/flattening the bends, he's sat over on the left on left handers, and on the right on right handers.
Not only does this reduce the vision around the bend, it also effectively tightens the radius of the bend, effectively making it sharper, so you have to take it slower. You'll see from the video that the Police rider is out to the right/centreline on left handers, and over to the left/kerb on right handers.
The Police rider also plans the overtakes better; there are several points in the video where he's on the right hand side of the road well before he gets up on the traffic in front of him. The subject tends to barrel right up to the back of stuff, then flick out at the last minute.
I'll happily sit on the "wrong" side of the road on a bend, pacing a gap, until I can see it's clear to go past the vehicle in front. If traffic comes into view, I can move left and slot back into the gap as my speed's matched to the gap - I won't do this if there's no gap to go to, and of course if I can't see round the vehicle, I wouldn't go offside in any case.
The Police rider doesn't sound to me at all like he's worried or nervous. The speeds he's giving may well differ from those on the video, as I suspect he's just using his speedo, rather than running Vascar/ProPilot.
With regard to some of the "close looking" filtering/overtakes, some of that may well be down to the zoom setting on the camera, as well as the actual camera position itself. By necessity, the camera will be lower than the Police rider's sight line, so the rider will have a better view over hazards most of the time. It's alos possible that the cameras either in the side of the fairing, or on the NS mirror, which will again give something of a "false" persepctive.
It looks to me like the camera is zoomed in, which gives the appearance of being closer to approaching ahzrads than reality. It's difficult to expalin, but if you've a camcorder and some gaffer tape, stick the camera on your dashboard and drive round the block fully zoomed out, then zoom in and do it again. The zoomed in pictures will look like you're further ahead than you are.
When ProVida systems are fitted in cars, the cameras are mounted up near the rear view mirror, because this is as clos as possible to the driver's eye view, and gives the best impression fo what the driver sees (the ideal would be to mount the camera on the driver's head, I suppose!
A low camera position would also make the filtering look "worse". I'm sure if you had a knee height view of gaps you'd normally filter through quite happily, you'd be holding back.
As to entrapment/egging on, the subject rider had apparently been complained about a number of times, as per the article. He could quite easily have stopped to let the "nutter" past, but He decided HE was going to ride like that.
The silver vectra driver wants a cocking as well for sitting in lane 2 to block traffic, when lane 1 was clear. The Police rider obviosuly flicks his blues/headlamp flasher on to get him/her to shift.
Forgot to mention that the rider obviously needs his brain testing if he didn't consider the possibility he was being tailed by the BiB and, adjust his riding accordingly.
The Police driver also seems to hang back on a number of occasions leaving plenty of gap between him and the subject should anything go wrong.
I'd have to agree, as he's taking what looks like more of a "racing line", although he's not apexing/flattening the bends, he's sat over on the left on left handers, and on the right on right handers.
Not only does this reduce the vision around the bend, it also effectively tightens the radius of the bend, effectively making it sharper, so you have to take it slower. You'll see from the video that the Police rider is out to the right/centreline on left handers, and over to the left/kerb on right handers.
The Police rider also plans the overtakes better; there are several points in the video where he's on the right hand side of the road well before he gets up on the traffic in front of him. The subject tends to barrel right up to the back of stuff, then flick out at the last minute.
I'll happily sit on the "wrong" side of the road on a bend, pacing a gap, until I can see it's clear to go past the vehicle in front. If traffic comes into view, I can move left and slot back into the gap as my speed's matched to the gap - I won't do this if there's no gap to go to, and of course if I can't see round the vehicle, I wouldn't go offside in any case.
The Police rider doesn't sound to me at all like he's worried or nervous. The speeds he's giving may well differ from those on the video, as I suspect he's just using his speedo, rather than running Vascar/ProPilot.
With regard to some of the "close looking" filtering/overtakes, some of that may well be down to the zoom setting on the camera, as well as the actual camera position itself. By necessity, the camera will be lower than the Police rider's sight line, so the rider will have a better view over hazards most of the time. It's alos possible that the cameras either in the side of the fairing, or on the NS mirror, which will again give something of a "false" persepctive.
It looks to me like the camera is zoomed in, which gives the appearance of being closer to approaching ahzrads than reality. It's difficult to expalin, but if you've a camcorder and some gaffer tape, stick the camera on your dashboard and drive round the block fully zoomed out, then zoom in and do it again. The zoomed in pictures will look like you're further ahead than you are.
When ProVida systems are fitted in cars, the cameras are mounted up near the rear view mirror, because this is as clos as possible to the driver's eye view, and gives the best impression fo what the driver sees (the ideal would be to mount the camera on the driver's head, I suppose!
A low camera position would also make the filtering look "worse". I'm sure if you had a knee height view of gaps you'd normally filter through quite happily, you'd be holding back.
As to entrapment/egging on, the subject rider had apparently been complained about a number of times, as per the article. He could quite easily have stopped to let the "nutter" past, but He decided HE was going to ride like that.
The silver vectra driver wants a cocking as well for sitting in lane 2 to block traffic, when lane 1 was clear. The Police rider obviosuly flicks his blues/headlamp flasher on to get him/her to shift.
Forgot to mention that the rider obviously needs his brain testing if he didn't consider the possibility he was being tailed by the BiB and, adjust his riding accordingly.
The Police driver also seems to hang back on a number of occasions leaving plenty of gap between him and the subject should anything go wrong.
Edited by Dibble on Tuesday 30th September 18:01
I quote, 'nearly had a head on' as the guy overtakes a line of cars and a passing bike is coming the other way. The only person who nearly had a head on there was the police motorcyclist. The guy in front probably thought the unmarked police bike was trying to race him. After a couple of miles there were enough traffic violations to hang him dry yet they kept filming 100mph plus in 40s which incidentally the police bike was also doing so now we have not one but two bikes doing 100 plus in a 40. Great work.
The lad was 22 years old could be his first bike, its just to easy to do these speeds, you do grow out of it and learn lessons and realise its not worth it, but I bet there is loads of people on Pistonheads who have done these speeds and more.
He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
cyberface said:
Xenocide said:
cyberface said:
Anyone contradict me on this, and say that the copper's moves were all safe? Why the hell would the controller put the copper on the bike in such danger? Or do you reckon the cop was enjoying ragging the arse off an unmarked bike free of prosecution? Again, his voice didn't indicate he was either exhilarated, or calm and controlled, he sounded flustered as hell and having to focus like hell to keep up... which from a top-trained rider means he was beyond the safe limits.
Do you think, for example, Rossi would be unsafe at those speeds? I'm sure he's not done police training. Saying they're the best trained and therefore the best riders is somewhat short sighted. Riding on the road is dictated much more by the actions of others than racing on a track, where it's you, the bike and the road (and a few other racers going the same way). And the cops' training is focused on the road, otherwise given the increased risk we'd see lots of dead police bikers and few people entering the constabulary to ride bikes...
I did get the impression he was being "goaded" on, the way they were both on the wrong side of the road at 100mph+ . You could almost see the guy was out for a race.
I think it was irresponsible of the copper to carry on. As it was stated above there was two bikes at 100+ in a 40 rather than 1. As the saying goes, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I think it was irresponsible of the copper to carry on. As it was stated above there was two bikes at 100+ in a 40 rather than 1. As the saying goes, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
996 sps said:
The lad was 22 years old could be his first bike, its just to easy to do these speeds, you do grow out of it and learn lessons and realise its not worth it, but I bet there is loads of people on Pistonheads who have done these speeds and more.
He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
The really high speeds (100+) were in relatively safer locations (dual carriageways). The really dangerous stuff (both from the kid and the copper) was in town, amongst traffic and at around 40-70 mph. You don't need a big bike to do that, and stupid town riding is just as (if not more) prevalent amongst the scooter crowd than sportsbike riders.He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
The difference being that when you get to a straight, the sportsbike can get up to 140 and suddenly you've got something for the front page of the Daily Mail.
The dodgiest bits of riding involved overtaking in heavy traffic amongst traffic islands. The kid ahead did it, then the cop just about made it through with an oncoming van... but if there'd been someone stepping out to cross the road onto that island, then at those speeds the cop bike wouldn't have been able to stop. I guess, using Roadcraft, he'd have ensured there was no pedestrian at the side of the road (and given that the cop will have a higher view than the camera, he feasibly could have). But diving in front of cars before traffic islands is dangerous IMO, perhaps I am more risk-averse than most on a motorcycle but I really don't think anyone can defend that the *entire* ride was a demonstration of safe progress by the police rider.
If it was, then we'd all be making serious progress in town. I don't think there are any heroes in this video clip, the cop did a damn good job of keeping up but I don't think he should have kept going so long. One idiot driver deciding that filtering motorbikes are 'unfair' (like the Golf GTI driver in East Grinstead last Saturday who moved and sat in the middle of the road in a traffic jam so I'd have to either undertake him or go round the wrong side of a traffic island) would have had either of them off. Yes, the cop held back in some specific locations where it was dead clear he was using Roadcraft but I simply don't buy that the entire ride was 'safe' by any stretch.
cyberface said:
996 sps said:
The lad was 22 years old could be his first bike, its just to easy to do these speeds, you do grow out of it and learn lessons and realise its not worth it, but I bet there is loads of people on Pistonheads who have done these speeds and more.
He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
The really high speeds (100+) were in relatively safer locations (dual carriageways). The really dangerous stuff (both from the kid and the copper) was in town, amongst traffic and at around 40-70 mph. You don't need a big bike to do that, and stupid town riding is just as (if not more) prevalent amongst the scooter crowd than sportsbike riders.He got caught and got the brunt of the law.
The difference being that when you get to a straight, the sportsbike can get up to 140 and suddenly you've got something for the front page of the Daily Mail.
The dodgiest bits of riding involved overtaking in heavy traffic amongst traffic islands. The kid ahead did it, then the cop just about made it through with an oncoming van... but if there'd been someone stepping out to cross the road onto that island, then at those speeds the cop bike wouldn't have been able to stop. I guess, using Roadcraft, he'd have ensured there was no pedestrian at the side of the road (and given that the cop will have a higher view than the camera, he feasibly could have). But diving in front of cars before traffic islands is dangerous IMO, perhaps I am more risk-averse than most on a motorcycle but I really don't think anyone can defend that the *entire* ride was a demonstration of safe progress by the police rider.
If it was, then we'd all be making serious progress in town. I don't think there are any heroes in this video clip, the cop did a damn good job of keeping up but I don't think he should have kept going so long. One idiot driver deciding that filtering motorbikes are 'unfair' (like the Golf GTI driver in East Grinstead last Saturday who moved and sat in the middle of the road in a traffic jam so I'd have to either undertake him or go round the wrong side of a traffic island) would have had either of them off. Yes, the cop held back in some specific locations where it was dead clear he was using Roadcraft but I simply don't buy that the entire ride was 'safe' by any stretch.
I'm on the "hmmm" side here too.
The guy was/is quite clearly a nobber who had to be stopped, but - he had to be STOPPED, not allowed to continue on his merry way for anyone else's enjoyment. The report says he was stopped in SOUTH LONDON - so the BiB chased, sorry, pursued, him all the way from almost the south coast into London?? Surely that can't ever under any circumstances be necessary? I too think that the BiB was enjoying himself far too much, and notwithstanding Dibble's comments about camera zoom, some of the BiB filtering, esp that at speed, made me breathe in just watching it.
The nob really was a complete nob - I'm suspicious of anything that tails me even for 10 secs, at legal speeds, so to not let that through and see what was going on was madness on his part, although it's also good that he's been stopped before it was all too late for him or someone else. Trying to think from his perspective, the way he was riding, he'd have soon been back past anything which wasn't BiB once he'd checked.
BiB also commented on the nob "forcing" his way past cars - which the BiB then immediately went on to do.
With some of the radio comments, I was half expecting a roadblock any time soon, and certainly by the time they reached Tunbridge Wells - with the congestion there it would have been easy.
No, the nob deserves everything he got (can't actually believe he didn't get a custodial) but the BiB let that go on FAR too long for it not to be down to him enjoying it too much. Being charitable, the first South London dealer I can think of approximately on that route is either 21st Moto at Swanley or Infinity at Purley Cross. However, those are 40 and 50 miles respectively from Robertsbridge.....
BTW, do we know what the Sussex unmarked bikes are? Blades?
The guy was/is quite clearly a nobber who had to be stopped, but - he had to be STOPPED, not allowed to continue on his merry way for anyone else's enjoyment. The report says he was stopped in SOUTH LONDON - so the BiB chased, sorry, pursued, him all the way from almost the south coast into London?? Surely that can't ever under any circumstances be necessary? I too think that the BiB was enjoying himself far too much, and notwithstanding Dibble's comments about camera zoom, some of the BiB filtering, esp that at speed, made me breathe in just watching it.
The nob really was a complete nob - I'm suspicious of anything that tails me even for 10 secs, at legal speeds, so to not let that through and see what was going on was madness on his part, although it's also good that he's been stopped before it was all too late for him or someone else. Trying to think from his perspective, the way he was riding, he'd have soon been back past anything which wasn't BiB once he'd checked.
BiB also commented on the nob "forcing" his way past cars - which the BiB then immediately went on to do.
With some of the radio comments, I was half expecting a roadblock any time soon, and certainly by the time they reached Tunbridge Wells - with the congestion there it would have been easy.
No, the nob deserves everything he got (can't actually believe he didn't get a custodial) but the BiB let that go on FAR too long for it not to be down to him enjoying it too much. Being charitable, the first South London dealer I can think of approximately on that route is either 21st Moto at Swanley or Infinity at Purley Cross. However, those are 40 and 50 miles respectively from Robertsbridge.....
BTW, do we know what the Sussex unmarked bikes are? Blades?
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff