Will 250s, 400s and 750s ever make a proper comeback?
Discussion
250s might as they start to standardise the EU laws for restricted riding (they are planning to 'stage' bike licenses to set ages and restrictions much more in the next 10 years AFAIK), but at the moment the 'cos the UK says so' doesn't really cut it enough to develop 33bhp bikes.
Not to mention that realistically these days, a decent 4-stroke sports 250 should have around 40bhp to be a bit meaty which I'm sure must put bike manufacturers off putting out some whingy 33bhp and calling it 'sport'.
400s? Maybe, though they are quite niche and I don't think they'll ever rid of the general view that a 400 is a 'pocket rocket', even if they make one with taller geometry! Not to mention the fact that with a 400, you are always asking it for just a little bit more... so they don't make a sound 'new bike' 'investment'.
Not to mention that realistically these days, a decent 4-stroke sports 250 should have around 40bhp to be a bit meaty which I'm sure must put bike manufacturers off putting out some whingy 33bhp and calling it 'sport'.
400s? Maybe, though they are quite niche and I don't think they'll ever rid of the general view that a 400 is a 'pocket rocket', even if they make one with taller geometry! Not to mention the fact that with a 400, you are always asking it for just a little bit more... so they don't make a sound 'new bike' 'investment'.
As stated above - 400's were Jap licensing peculiarity back in the day so can't see them coming back - especially as they offer nothing over the lightweight 600's we have now.
250 is a trickier one - if they change motogp rules for 250's or if licensing changes they could be popular again, but unlikely I guess.
750's are the biggest shame for me - loved this class of bike (own a ZX7R) and I think this is a great capacity for a lot of reasons - especially if the current 600's all came with 750 engines (a bit like the current GSXR750). However, with current racing rules and how light bikes are now, I can only really see 125's, 600's and 1000's dominating for the foreseeable....
250 is a trickier one - if they change motogp rules for 250's or if licensing changes they could be popular again, but unlikely I guess.
750's are the biggest shame for me - loved this class of bike (own a ZX7R) and I think this is a great capacity for a lot of reasons - especially if the current 600's all came with 750 engines (a bit like the current GSXR750). However, with current racing rules and how light bikes are now, I can only really see 125's, 600's and 1000's dominating for the foreseeable....
400s are STILL needed in Japan, and they still make them
the bike market is very fashion driven there though, race-reps were all the rage in the late 80s/early 90s
not now, they go for retro stuff now
like this cb400ss
yes, that is a current model
the bike market is very fashion driven there though, race-reps were all the rage in the late 80s/early 90s
not now, they go for retro stuff now
like this cb400ss
yes, that is a current model
Edited by hugoagogo on Tuesday 21st October 22:16
PapaBear said:
Don't bring back any 750's
Why? From all i've read and heard the Gixxer 750 is a fantastic bike. Arguably (and this is purely from hearsay) more useable on the road than the thousand and a bit more allround power than a 600.I'm guessing the only reason why 750's may not come back from all manufacturers is that i would guess most litre bikes are sold on headline figures and on paper a 'thou' is always gonna be a bit quicker than a 750.
I'm sure some Gixxer 750 owners will be able to give an owners view..
Fire99 said:
PapaBear said:
Don't bring back any 750's
Why? From all i've read and heard the Gixxer 750 is a fantastic bike. Arguably (and this is purely from hearsay) more useable on the road than the thousand and a bit more allround power than a 600.I'm guessing the only reason why 750's may not come back from all manufacturers is that i would guess most litre bikes are sold on headline figures and on paper a 'thou' is always gonna be a bit quicker than a 750.
I'm sure some Gixxer 750 owners will be able to give an owners view..
t bikes. Keep falling over and are not as good as my mate KIWI_UK around a track...Oh, hang on.Suzuki seem to think that the 750 is the ONLY bike for the road. As I'm told, they concentrate on updating the 750 model every year, ahead of the 600 and the 1000. In fact im not even sure that they do update the other two models each year...but stand to be corrected. This would indicate that the 750's are indeed around to stay.
Chilli said:
Fire99 said:
PapaBear said:
Don't bring back any 750's
Why? From all i've read and heard the Gixxer 750 is a fantastic bike. Arguably (and this is purely from hearsay) more useable on the road than the thousand and a bit more allround power than a 600.I'm guessing the only reason why 750's may not come back from all manufacturers is that i would guess most litre bikes are sold on headline figures and on paper a 'thou' is always gonna be a bit quicker than a 750.
I'm sure some Gixxer 750 owners will be able to give an owners view..
t bikes. Keep falling over and are not as good as my mate KIWI_UK around a track...Oh, hang on.Suzuki seem to think that the 750 is the ONLY bike for the road. As I'm told, they concentrate on updating the 750 model every year, ahead of the 600 and the 1000. In fact im not even sure that they do update the other two models each year...but stand to be corrected. This would indicate that the 750's are indeed around to stay.
Basically meaning they update them every 2 years.
The new model that comes out in-between is no different except they have a different paint scheme!
1 Vote for 750's
1 Vote for 250's
..and really I quite like that CB400SS in Hugoagogo's post above so that's all 3 then.
Mind you I still think the old 500 class (which used to be considered BIG when I were nobbut a lad) is worthy of resurrecting as a more nimble sporty bike. It seem to be relegated to the courier/commuter/de-restricted first bike class now.
S'pose it's just a general vote for bikes actually
1 Vote for 250's
..and really I quite like that CB400SS in Hugoagogo's post above so that's all 3 then.
Mind you I still think the old 500 class (which used to be considered BIG when I were nobbut a lad) is worthy of resurrecting as a more nimble sporty bike. It seem to be relegated to the courier/commuter/de-restricted first bike class now.
S'pose it's just a general vote for bikes actually
Fire99 said:
PapaBear said:
Don't bring back any 750's
Why? From all i've read and heard the Gixxer 750 is a fantastic bike. Arguably (and this is purely from hearsay) more useable on the road than the thousand and a bit more allround power than a 600.I'm guessing the only reason why 750's may not come back from all manufacturers is that i would guess most litre bikes are sold on headline figures and on paper a 'thou' is always gonna be a bit quicker than a 750.
I'm sure some Gixxer 750 owners will be able to give an owners view..
I'm no authority on the matter but in my opinion the current engine brackets i.e 125 - 600 - 1000 seem to have all bases covered for most syles of bike, just like when the brackets were the 250 - 400 - 750 etc. I personally would welcome back the 750 but in reality it's place in the market would be seen more (to me) as a revival as opposed to a "bracket" of it's own to compete with what's already available.
P
I bought a GSX-R750 instead of the 600 and 1000. A friend of mine bought a 600 K7 and I had a go on it and loved it, in comparison to my 600 K3, it was amazingly light and nimble but just required a lot of thrashing. Tested a 1000 K6 just after and I'm still sure that had I gone for that, I'd probably be dead now. The 750 K7 was the perfect compromise, it had everything that was great about the 600 but you could ride it a more relaxed way in normal riding circumstances or hammer the living fk out of it when you were having fun.
k out of it when you were having fun.after passing DAS I went for a CB400sf
it was largely a size / height issue for me - grey 400s are pretty poor value for money considering you can get a 5 year newer CBR600f with double the bhp than say a 1989 CBR400rr.
but the cb400 has proper brakes and looks beefier than just sticking with an er5 / cb500, given I didn't want a sports or custom bike
unless you're tiny, I don't see why someone with full das would go for a 250 or even 400 when 600 (or 650 as they now seem to be) can offer loads more to grow into.
someone with 33bhp for 2 years is unlikely to slap £4k down on a new 250 bike when in 24 months they'll want something more fruity, hence no manufacturers will make them in my opinion.
To answer the question, my Sis in law has a cbr125 and DAS - it struggles on nsl roads. Would a 250 be a huge improvement? probably not...but that progressive step is missing, and she's 5"1 so can't really jump striaght to a 600.
750s? don't know, but what can they do that a 100bhp 600 can't?
Ian
it was largely a size / height issue for me - grey 400s are pretty poor value for money considering you can get a 5 year newer CBR600f with double the bhp than say a 1989 CBR400rr.
but the cb400 has proper brakes and looks beefier than just sticking with an er5 / cb500, given I didn't want a sports or custom bike
unless you're tiny, I don't see why someone with full das would go for a 250 or even 400 when 600 (or 650 as they now seem to be) can offer loads more to grow into.
someone with 33bhp for 2 years is unlikely to slap £4k down on a new 250 bike when in 24 months they'll want something more fruity, hence no manufacturers will make them in my opinion.
To answer the question, my Sis in law has a cbr125 and DAS - it struggles on nsl roads. Would a 250 be a huge improvement? probably not...but that progressive step is missing, and she's 5"1 so can't really jump striaght to a 600.
750s? don't know, but what can they do that a 100bhp 600 can't?
Ian
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