Bikes are slow...

[y2blade]

Biker's Nemesis said:

y2blade, what are the lap times for the IOM TT, for a Superbike? Didn't a couple of car jockys have a go and couldn't match a bike.

forget superbikes, for the sake of this thread we'll keep it road going off the shelf stuff, that you or can walk in a showroom and ride home on

but yeah the Isle of man is the ideal example as it is the type of roads we all use day to day..bumpy as hell with negative cambers and elevation changes

SuperStock1000.. Production spec road bikes average 129.746mph
that is 37.74 miles in 17’26.88

you match that in any car and I'll shake your hand..until then cars are slow and bikes rule

fair enough?


now consider that the outright RACE BIKE record is 17’12.30 @ 131.578mph ...it will give the car boys some idea how quick our road bike really are

Edited by y2blade on Thursday 13th May 14:15

[fergus]

MC Bodge said:

A bike is more difficult and requires more commitment to ride fast.

For various reasons, almost any bike is more fun than almost any car and that is before you you throw in cost.

You've obviously never a race car setup for slicks?

[Distorshion wave]

This vid sums it up more than, a pile of performance figues could.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/motorc...

[y2blade]

Distorshion wave said:

This vid sums it up more than, a pile of performance figues could.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/motorc...

can't see the vid but the fastest thing he (Jay Leno) owns is a motorbike

MTT Y2K

google it!!!!

so yeah cars are still slow

Edited by y2blade on Thursday 13th May 14:06

[MC Bodge]

fergus said:

MC Bodge said:

A bike is more difficult and requires more commitment to ride fast.

For various reasons, almost any bike is more fun than almost any car and that is before you you throw in cost.

You've obviously never a race car setup for slicks?

Almost all cars are not slick-shod, well-set-up race cars are they?

I've certainly not seen many on the road. Never mind one that you could pick up for ~1500quid and that would just need filling up petrol every time it is used rather than a load of maintenance.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 13th May 14:11

[RobM77]

jp-speed-triple said:

RobM77 said:

Castrol Craig said:

RobM77 said:

Finally, I wish people would stop comparing race rep superbikes with big comfy supercars. It's not a fair comparison. The car equivalent of an R1 is a road legal Radical, which would blow an R1 into the weeds (yes, I've checked the lap times and it's about 6 seconds per minute, which is the difference between my old racing Metro and my racing Caterham...).

Both have endearing qualities though :-) I 'm happy liking both :-)

id have to disagree with you there chap.

you bring your a radical with you driving and i will provide a BB Member with a modern sportsbike. i can bet a tube of jaffa cakes that your not within 6 seconds BEHIND him, let alone in front.


and to the op,

You're on. I don't own a Radical, but I'd be happy to drive one. I know from looking at the lap times I'd be just ahead of a BSB machine. A road bike would therefore be easy meat.

At which circuit? brands Indy? I doubt it? Snett, very probably.

Which Radical? There are a number of different ones you know? I seriously doubt an 1100cc Kwaker clubby would stand a chance. A 1585cc super sport spec PR06...is a different animal BUT you couldn't drive it on 'road' anyway, so not a comparison. The SR3 in road legal trim weighs a tonne, so don't just assume all Radicals are created equal.

FFS stop waving your cock around.

eh? Why am I 'waving my cock around'. Don't shoot the middle man, I'm just browsing lap times on the web and telling you what they say. I don't own a Radical or a superbike, I'm just quoting lap times. If the lap times posted by superbikes, race bikes, Caterhams and Radicals somehow deflate your ego then that's not my problem! You live in a world where a fast Caterham, Radical etc can outrun a top superbike around a race track; if you don't like that then there's nothing I can do to help - deal with it!

By the way, you've got your race tracks the wrong way round: Snet favours bikes and Brands would favour a car.

[Mad Jock]

As the OP didn't mention lap times or suchlike, the argument is moot. bhing about who get's in who's way on a motorway is just plain childish. Even 40 Tonne trucks get held up by cars that can go faster than 60 mph on a motorway.
We're all petrolheads here, whether it's cars or bikes. I've had my share of both. On the right road, in the right conditions, (ie, no-one else around)it is undeniably a rush to thread some bends together, hang the tail out or hang off, bike or car. The odd car to challenge your overtaking timing and ability just to throw a bit more spice into the journey. The Horseshoe Pass, the Cat and Fiddle, anywhere North of Fort William, to suggest a few roads, all to yourself, dry, sunny; just driving heaven. An absolute blast on a Ducati, Blade, R1, or in a Radical, Zonda, Ferrari or whatever. In the best of worlds, it would be great to have a stable of bikes and cars.
Sadly, today our roads aren't like that, most of the time. Speed cameras, unmarked plod, caravans, coaches, tractors all conspire to hold us up. In your Zonda or Caterham, you're too low to see past the exhaust pipe of the Micra in front of you, too low to see over the slightest rise in the road ahead.
On the Blade, R1 or whatever, 'tis but a couple of cogs downshift and you're past. What's that up ahead? Roadworks and temporary traffic lights? Just filter to the front of the queue.
The difference between a fast car and a fast bike on normal roads is that the bike will make progress 99% of the time.
Which is why some of the car drivers on these forums moan so much about bikes filtering past them in rush hour. At the end of the day, it's not about absolute speed, but who gets to their destination first, (and in one piece).
No prizes for guessing who that is.

[y2blade]

Mad Jock said:

As the OP didn't mention lap times or suchlike, the argument is moot. bhing about who get's in who's way on a motorway is just plain childish. Even 40 Tonne trucks get held up by cars that can go faster than 60 mph on a motorway.
We're all petrolheads here, whether it's cars or bikes. I've had my share of both. On the right road, in the right conditions, (ie, no-one else around)it is undeniably a rush to thread some bends together, hang the tail out or hang off, bike or car. The odd car to challenge your overtaking timing and ability just to throw a bit more spice into the journey. The Horseshoe Pass, the Cat and Fiddle, anywhere North of Fort William, to suggest a few roads, all to yourself, dry, sunny; just driving heaven. An absolute blast on a Ducati, Blade, R1, or in a Radical, Zonda, Ferrari or whatever. In the best of worlds, it would be great to have a stable of bikes and cars.
Sadly, today our roads aren't like that, most of the time. Speed cameras, unmarked plod, caravans, coaches, tractors all conspire to hold us up. In your Zonda or Caterham, you're too low to see past the exhaust pipe of the Micra in front of you, too low to see over the slightest rise in the road ahead.
On the Blade, R1 or whatever, 'tis but a couple of cogs downshift and you're past. What's that up ahead? Roadworks and temporary traffic lights? Just filter to the front of the queue.
The difference between a fast car and a fast bike on normal roads is that the bike will make progress 99% of the time.
Which is why some of the car drivers on these forums moan so much about bikes filtering past them in rush hour. At the end of the day, it's not about absolute speed, but who gets to their destination first, (and in one piece).
No prizes for guessing who that is.

yep cars are slow in real world situations

bikes rule


thanks

[RobM77]

y2blade said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

y2blade, what are the lap times for the IOM TT, for a Superbike? Didn't a couple of car jockys have a go and couldn't match a bike.

forget superbikes, for the sake of this thread we'll keep it road going off the shelf stuff, that you or can walk in a showroom and ride home on

but yeah the Isle of man is the ideal example as it is the type of roads we all use day to day..bumpy as hell with negative cambers and elevation changes

SuperStock1000.. Production spec road bikes average 129.746mph
that is 37.74 miles in 17’26.88

you match that in any car and I'll shake your hand..until then cars are slow and bikes rule

fair enough?


now consider that the outright RACE BIKE record is 17’12.30 @ 131.578mph ...it will give the car boys some idea how quick our road bike really are

Edited by y2blade on Thursday 13th May 14:03

Well no, it just makes an interesting engineering point that a race bike is closer to a road bike than a race car is to a road car.

Given Pond's time in a lumbering great front wheel drive car with a wheezy engine, I've no doubt that the diferences between cars and bikes on track would map to the TT course. I can't see any reason why not.

[fergus]

y2blade said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

y2blade, what are the lap times for the IOM TT, for a Superbike? Didn't a couple of car jockys have a go and couldn't match a bike.

forget superbikes, for the sake of this thread we'll keep it road going off the shelf stuff, that you or can walk in a showroom and ride home on

but yeah the Isle of man is the ideal example as it is the type of roads we all use day to day..bumpy as hell with negative cambers and elevation changes

SuperStock1000.. Production spec road bikes average 129.746mph
that is 37.74 miles in 17’26.88

you match that in any car and I'll shake your hand..until then cars are slow and bikes rule

fair enough?


now consider that the outright RACE BIKE record is 17’12.30 @ 131.578mph ...it will give the car boys some idea how quick our road bike really are

Edited by y2blade on Thursday 13th May 14:03

just to fuel the fire.... the quick lap time is partly because there are a lot of flat out sections on the TT where i) a bike is capable of doing 170-190mph where the car isn't (partly due to either bumps in the road, or width of the road) and ii) the defecit in the bends is massively outweighed by the amount of time spent on the straights.

Go down something like the B660 (northampton) on a bike vs a quick caterham, etc, and I don't think there would be a lot in it.

[RemyMartin]

If I was a woman, i'd fancy Guy Martin.....perhaps lol.

[y2blade]

RemyMartin said:

If I was a woman, i'd fancy Guy Martin.....perhaps lol.

me to

[RobM77]

y2blade said:

Mad Jock said:

As the OP didn't mention lap times or suchlike, the argument is moot. bhing about who get's in who's way on a motorway is just plain childish. Even 40 Tonne trucks get held up by cars that can go faster than 60 mph on a motorway.
We're all petrolheads here, whether it's cars or bikes. I've had my share of both. On the right road, in the right conditions, (ie, no-one else around)it is undeniably a rush to thread some bends together, hang the tail out or hang off, bike or car. The odd car to challenge your overtaking timing and ability just to throw a bit more spice into the journey. The Horseshoe Pass, the Cat and Fiddle, anywhere North of Fort William, to suggest a few roads, all to yourself, dry, sunny; just driving heaven. An absolute blast on a Ducati, Blade, R1, or in a Radical, Zonda, Ferrari or whatever. In the best of worlds, it would be great to have a stable of bikes and cars.
Sadly, today our roads aren't like that, most of the time. Speed cameras, unmarked plod, caravans, coaches, tractors all conspire to hold us up. In your Zonda or Caterham, you're too low to see past the exhaust pipe of the Micra in front of you, too low to see over the slightest rise in the road ahead.
On the Blade, R1 or whatever, 'tis but a couple of cogs downshift and you're past. What's that up ahead? Roadworks and temporary traffic lights? Just filter to the front of the queue.
The difference between a fast car and a fast bike on normal roads is that the bike will make progress 99% of the time.
Which is why some of the car drivers on these forums moan so much about bikes filtering past them in rush hour. At the end of the day, it's not about absolute speed, but who gets to their destination first, (and in one piece).
No prizes for guessing who that is.

yep cars are slow in real world situations

bikes rule


thanks

Compare the two on the road and the bike would just clear off. Bikes are inherently much better suited to covering ground on a road, because firstly the rider sits much higher than a car for better visibility, secondly a bike is thinner so it can overtake at will, and lastly it's unsafe for a car to use its advantages of superior braking and cornering.

Speed on the road - bike everytime. And by a huuuge margin.

Speed on the track - it's the car; sorry, but lap times don't lie.

[y2blade]

RobM77 said:

y2blade said:

Mad Jock said:

As the OP didn't mention lap times or suchlike, the argument is moot. bhing about who get's in who's way on a motorway is just plain childish. Even 40 Tonne trucks get held up by cars that can go faster than 60 mph on a motorway.
We're all petrolheads here, whether it's cars or bikes. I've had my share of both. On the right road, in the right conditions, (ie, no-one else around)it is undeniably a rush to thread some bends together, hang the tail out or hang off, bike or car. The odd car to challenge your overtaking timing and ability just to throw a bit more spice into the journey. The Horseshoe Pass, the Cat and Fiddle, anywhere North of Fort William, to suggest a few roads, all to yourself, dry, sunny; just driving heaven. An absolute blast on a Ducati, Blade, R1, or in a Radical, Zonda, Ferrari or whatever. In the best of worlds, it would be great to have a stable of bikes and cars.
Sadly, today our roads aren't like that, most of the time. Speed cameras, unmarked plod, caravans, coaches, tractors all conspire to hold us up. In your Zonda or Caterham, you're too low to see past the exhaust pipe of the Micra in front of you, too low to see over the slightest rise in the road ahead.
On the Blade, R1 or whatever, 'tis but a couple of cogs downshift and you're past. What's that up ahead? Roadworks and temporary traffic lights? Just filter to the front of the queue.
The difference between a fast car and a fast bike on normal roads is that the bike will make progress 99% of the time.
Which is why some of the car drivers on these forums moan so much about bikes filtering past them in rush hour. At the end of the day, it's not about absolute speed, but who gets to their destination first, (and in one piece).
No prizes for guessing who that is.

yep cars are slow in real world situations

bikes rule


thanks

Compare the two on the road and the bike would just clear off. Bikes are inherently much better suited to covering ground on a road, because firstly the rider sits much higher than a car for better visibility, secondly a bike is thinner so it can overtake at will, and lastly it's unsafe for a car to use its advantages of superior braking and cornering.

Speed on the road - bike everytime. And by a huuuge margin.

Speed on the track - it's the car; sorry, but lap times don't lie.

we are talking about road use after all

[fergus]

MC Bodge said:

fergus said:

MC Bodge said:

A bike is more difficult and requires more commitment to ride fast.

For various reasons, almost any bike is more fun than almost any car and that is before you you throw in cost.

You've obviously never a race car setup for slicks?

Almost all cars are not slick-shod, well-set-up race cars are they?

I've certainly not seen many on the road. Never mind one that you could pick up for ~1500quid and that would just need filling up petrol every time it is used rather than a load of maintenance.

I wasn't discussing cost, etc. I was responding to your simple statement...

Try driving a non current generation GT3 *quickly*.

Bikes are the same. John (BN) can ride *quickly*, however, most people would be on their arses at a point prior to this. Defining *fast* in these cases is the difficult thing. e.g. most intermediates at a t/day think they are 'fast'. Get them out with Steve Brogan, etc, they wil have their definitions of fast recalibrated.

Likewise, go out with a highly skilled road car driver, and he will show how quickly a car can be piloted down a typical UK road.

Riding a car or bike properly *fast* can't be done by 95% of people.....

[MC Bodge]

fergus said:

I wasn't discussing cost, etc. I was responding to your simple statement...

Please explain, with reference to my simple statement, what has this got to do with Fun?

[fergus]

MC Bodge said:

fergus said:

I wasn't discussing cost, etc. I was responding to your simple statement...

Please explain, with reference to my simple statement, what has this got to do with Fun?

OK, so ignoring my reply to your previous post....

Fun is subjective, not objective. Driving a car quickly, or at least trying to master its nuances, may be deemed more fun than riding a bike by some folks. Ever considered that others may have different viewpoints to your own?

[MC Bodge]

fergus said:

Ever considered that others may have different viewpoints to your own?

Of course not, this is the internet!

[RemyMartin]

fergus said:

MC Bodge said:

fergus said:

I wasn't discussing cost, etc. I was responding to your simple statement...

Please explain, with reference to my simple statement, what has this got to do with Fun?

OK, so ignoring my reply to your previous post....

Fun is subjective, not objective. Driving a car quickly, or at least trying to master its nuances, may be deemed more fun than riding a bike by some folks. Ever considered that others may have different viewpoints to your own?

This is a slightly irrelevant point. The OP said bikes are slow, when it's clear they are not. Some people take pleasure in logging down Eddie Stobard lorry numbers, don't mean it's relevant.

[Biker's Nemesis]

RobM77 said:

y2blade said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

y2blade, what are the lap times for the IOM TT, for a Superbike? Didn't a couple of car jockys have a go and couldn't match a bike.

forget superbikes, for the sake of this thread we'll keep it road going off the shelf stuff, that you or can walk in a showroom and ride home on

but yeah the Isle of man is the ideal example as it is the type of roads we all use day to day..bumpy as hell with negative cambers and elevation changes

SuperStock1000.. Production spec road bikes average 129.746mph
that is 37.74 miles in 17’26.88

you match that in any car and I'll shake your hand..until then cars are slow and bikes rule

fair enough?


now consider that the outright RACE BIKE record is 17’12.30 @ 131.578mph ...it will give the car boys some idea how quick our road bike really are

Edited by y2blade on Thursday 13th May 14:03

Given Pond's time in a lumbering great front wheel drive car with a wheezy engine, I've no doubt that the diferences between cars and bikes on track would map to the TT course. I can't see any reason why not.

A Rover SD1 is rear wheel drive?

Didn't you see my post about the TZR 250cc road bike that lapped the TT course at 100mph over 25 years ago?