Bikes are slow...

[308mate]

Plotloss said:

So what you're saying is that given an identical power to weight ratio, four wheels are better than two?

I'll alert the media.

I think this about sums up the stupidity of the OP.

BTW, on a track I'd be inclined to put my money on the Radical, regardless of which BBer was riding what. And thats with me driving the Radical. Im not fast. Radicals are though.

I dont even know why Im perpetuating the discussion. Radicals have aero, slicks and bike-like acceleration FFS. Of course it will be quicker. Dont feed the bike trolls. If they need it explaining, its not worth it.

What DOES annoy me though (wont leave well-enough alone will I?) is how many car drivers come in here saying we all act like cocks as soon as the sun comes out. And now we have someone who reckons that no-matter how fast we're going, there will probably him in a £50,000 car coming past at Warp 9. Were are those same car drivers to deride his claimed behaviour?

Anyway OP, dont sing it son, bring it. Next time youre out, cog it down a gear in front of me on my R1 and we'll see whats what. Im not predicting the outcome, Im just saying when the pedal drops, the bullst stops. Coming on here and pissing in everyones pocket doesnt prove anything.

[Castrol Craig]

for a bit of context.

brand indy.

lap record

bikes

josh brookes 44.879

radical

0:47.611 Ross Allen 07/10/2007

snett

bikes

Leon Camier Airwaves Yam. 1m04.390s 2009

radical

Snetterton 1:08.460 Richard Stables 09/05/2010


Croft

Bikes

Camier 1m20.097s

radical

1:21.134 Jonathan Wright 14/06/2008

donny gp

bikes

camier 1.31

radical

1:41.012 Mark Boot 04/07/2009

oulton international

bikes

camier 1.36

radical

1:51.594 Nick Dove 21/05/2005



overall, yes bikes are slow.

shockingly, on several of those circuits the superstock 1000's were also quicker than the radicals.

and before any of you cry foul play, yesterday i emailed the lassy that runs the grid for radical extreme sports cars, and she emailed me the lap records, and those are for the comparable circuits.

my work here is done.

[308mate]

Castrol Craig said:

my work here is done.

Well that surprises me, especially Oulton. Cant argue with the stopwatch though I suppose.

[130R]

Castrol Craig said:

my work here is done.

Well not really because those are mostly times from PR6 from what I can see. Try SR8 times:

Brands Hatch (Indy) 0:43.734 Ross Kaiser 07/10/2007
Snetterton 1:03.268 Stuart Moseley 29/04/2007
Croft 1:17.534 Ross Kaiser 15/06/2008
Donington (GP) 1:29.638 Ross Kaiser 04/07/2009

A bit quicker than the bikes.

[Castrol Craig]

130R said:

Castrol Craig said:

my work here is done.

Well not really because those are mostly times from PR6 from what I can see. Try SR8 times:

Brands Hatch (Indy) 0:43.734 Ross Kaiser 07/10/2007
Snetterton 1:03.268 Stuart Moseley 29/04/2007
Croft 1:17.534 Ross Kaiser 15/06/2008
Donington (GP) 1:29.638 Ross Kaiser 04/07/2009

A bit quicker than the bikes.

how come radical gb have no record of those times? not saying they are not real, but this was the lassy fro radical uk.

[RobM77]

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Radical came up on this thread because they, along with Caterhams etc, and conceptually similar to a road superbike. Superstock times are in the 50s around Brands.... Formula Fords, with no aero and a Fiesta engine, are in the 48s, and the new Mondeo engined ones are in the 46s.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th May 10:29

[fergus]

308mate said:

Plotloss said:

So what you're saying is that given an identical power to weight ratio, four wheels are better than two?

I'll alert the media.

I think this about sums up the stupidity of the OP.

He may have made a stupid statement, but having retired in his mid 30s he's not stupid per se....

[Vidal Baboon]

RobM77 said:

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Because you see loads of Radicals parked up at Tescos right. Not really a road car is it.

Regardless of whether you can drive it on the road or not, it's about as extreme as you can get for a road going car.

Edited by Vidal Baboon on Friday 14th May 10:33

[Castrol Craig]

RobM77 said:

Superstock times are in the 50s around Brands....

our survey says......


Steve plater...lap record, 2010, hm plant stocker

46.671.

i thank you.

[RobM77]

Vidal Baboon said:

RobM77 said:

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Because you see loads of Radicals parked up at Tescos right. Not really a road car is it.

No less practical than an R1!! You sit low in the cockpit to protect you from the weather, and you can use the passenger area for storage. Caterhams even have hoods and quite big boots. Plus you don't need to don a load of special clothes before you drive it!!

Nothing wrong with bikes, but you can't claim that an R1, Ducati etc is any more of a road machine than a Radical, Ultima or Caterham.

The lap time comparison is completely unfair, because you've got the race bike record and compared it with a road/sports based car. It's as ridiculous as the BTG lap time comparison with a full lap. Utter desperation to prove a false point

[RobM77]

Castrol Craig said:

RobM77 said:

Superstock times are in the 50s around Brands....

our survey says......


Steve plater...lap record, 2010, hm plant stocker

46.671.

i thank you.

Which is over three seconds slower than the Radical time posted above.

Let's argue that 1+2=4, you'd be good at that ;-)

[308mate]

fergus said:

308mate said:

Plotloss said:

So what you're saying is that given an identical power to weight ratio, four wheels are better than two?

I'll alert the media.

I think this about sums up the stupidity of the OP.

He may have made a stupid statement, but having retired in his mid 30s he's not stupid per se....

Valid point. Stupid statement, let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc etc.

But the bike vs car debate? Again? Not like hes a newb is it?

[Vidal Baboon]

RobM77 said:

Vidal Baboon said:

RobM77 said:

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Because you see loads of Radicals parked up at Tescos right. Not really a road car is it.

No less practical than an R1!! You sit low in the cockpit to protect you from the weather, and you can use the passenger area for storage. Caterhams even have hoods and quite big boots. Plus you don't need to don a load of special clothes before you drive it!!

Nothing wrong with bikes, but you can't claim that an R1, Ducati etc is any more of a road machine than a Radical, Ultima or Caterham.

The lap time comparison is completely unfair, because you've got the race bike record and compared it with a road/sports based car. It's as ridiculous as the BTG lap time comparison with a full lap. Utter desperation to prove a false point

But your comparison against the Radical is an R1. Not exactly the most extreme of road bikes going is it.

I've got no idea what would be concidered the 2 wheeled equivalent of a Radical would be, but I'd bet- whatever it is, wouldn't be far off the pace of those times posted.


This thread is a waste of energy really. I can't hear you banging on about lap times with my helmet on.

Good luck finding a Girlfriend you geek

[308mate]

130R said:

Castrol Craig said:

my work here is done.

Well not really because those are mostly times from PR6 from what I can see. Try SR8 times:

Brands Hatch (Indy) 0:43.734 Ross Kaiser 07/10/2007
Snetterton 1:03.268 Stuart Moseley 29/04/2007
Croft 1:17.534 Ross Kaiser 15/06/2008
Donington (GP) 1:29.638 Ross Kaiser 04/07/2009

A bit quicker than the bikes.

Craig, I had assumed you had taken times of the fast variant of the Radical, seeing as we're comparing it to BSB bikes?

[Castrol Craig]

RobM77 said:

Vidal Baboon said:

RobM77 said:

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Because you see loads of Radicals parked up at Tescos right. Not really a road car is it.

No less practical than an R1!! You sit low in the cockpit to protect you from the weather, and you can use the passenger area for storage. Caterhams even have hoods and quite big boots. Plus you don't need to don a load of special clothes before you drive it!!

Nothing wrong with bikes, but you can't claim that an R1, Ducati etc is any more of a road machine than a Radical, Ultima or Caterham.

The lap time comparison is completely unfair, because you've got the race bike record and compared it with a road/sports based car. It's as ridiculous as the BTG lap time comparison with a full lap. Utter desperation to prove a false point

no, we are comparing slick shod race (but barely legal) cars with slick shod production based bikes. equivalent series.


if you want a race bike lap record, i could always start comparing wsbk and motogp times?

as for claiming an r1 or duke is less road biased, er no they are not, they are designed as road bikes first and then converted to race bikes as a second thought.

whereas radicals are little more than a barely legal hardcore track car with some lights stuck on.

[130R]

Castrol Craig said:

how come radical gb have no record of those times? not saying they are not real, but this was the lassy fro radical uk.

They should do, they are on their web site:

http://www.radicalsportscars.com/about/racing/fast...

[jackal]

RobM77 said:

Don't be daft, you're comparing full on race bikes with a Radical!!

Radical came up on this thread because they, along with Caterhams etc, and conceptually similar to a road superbike. Superstock times are in the 50s around Brands.... Formula Fords, with no aero and a Fiesta engine, are in the 48s, and the new Mondeo engined ones are in the 46s.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th May 10:29

exactly


A boggo caterham R400 will lick nearly every road going superbike you care to throw at it ... let alone a radical !!

Off the circuit and back on the road you have to throw in manhole covers, potholes, nasty camber and all sorts of ills and the bike is even slower still. On the brakes you have to have to be absolutely godlike to exploit the bikes true braking potential and this is where the Volvo estate with 2 washing machines in the boot is mighty.

If you want to get into Race bike times then radicals don't have any meaning anymore, post up some F1 or DTM times instead or as Rob said even some basic single seater times.

[Vidal Baboon]

jackal said:

On the brakes you have to have to be absolutely godlike to exploit the bikes true braking potential and this is where the Volvo estate with 2 washing machines in the boot is mighty.

[Castrol Craig]

jackal said:

this is where the Volvo estate with 2 washing machines in the boot is mighty.

and with that everyones point is proven.

Edited by Castrol Craig on Friday 14th May 10:57

[RobM77]

Let's look at this another way. Let's look at the physics. Let's forget trying to compare road with road or race with race, because we're struggling there (lord knows how though - crouched over a blade is a different world to being tucked up in an Ultima listening to the radio and sipping coffee). Let's look at the basic physics:

That Superstock time you posted - the very pinnacle of road bike engineering with the best rider on the best day and the best opportunity to get the best times. He did a mid 46.

I was down at Brands the other day and Josh Hill was testing a Formula Ford. No downforce, just a spaceframe chassis, four speed gearbox, three pedals and a standard Mondeo engine. Not a Mondeo engine out of one of their quicker cars, just a standard engine. One of our guys timed him at a mid 46.

Now how about straight line performance. Acceleration? An R1 will crack 100mph from rest in 6 seconds. Autocar got a GSXR1100 to do it in 5.5 with a pro rider. Formula Renault with a Clio engine? 4.9. Braking? 100mph to rest their superbike was slower than their benchmark Ford Focus 1.6.

It's just the fact that the CofG is lower on a car and they've got four flat contact patches vs two angled ones.