Bikes are slow...

[308mate]

RobM77 said:

Let's look at this another way. Let's look at the physics. Let's forget trying to compare road with road or race with race, because we're struggling there (lord knows how though - crouched over a blade is a different world to being tucked up in an Ultima listening to the radio and sipping coffee). Let's look at the basic physics:

That Superstock time you posted - the very pinnacle of road bike engineering with the best rider on the best day and the best opportunity to get the best times. He did a mid 46.

I was down at Brands the other day and Josh Hill was testing a Formula Ford. No downforce, just a spaceframe chassis, four speed gearbox, three pedals and a standard Mondeo engine. Not a Mondeo engine out of one of their quicker cars, just a standard engine. One of our guys timed him at a mid 46.

Now how about straight line performance. Acceleration? An R1 will crack 100mph from rest in 6 seconds. Autocar got a GSXR1100 to do it in 5.5 with a pro rider. Formula Renault with a Clio engine? 4.9. Braking? 100mph to rest their superbike was slower than their benchmark Ford Focus 1.6.

It's just the fact that the CofG is lower on a car and they've got four flat contact patches vs two angled ones.

I dont remember anyone argiung these points. Theyre obvious, even to us bikers (some of whom have also done a few car trackdays).

The trouble - as always - is noone can agree which example from each would be comparing apples with apples.

I think an SR8 with a BSB bike is pretty close to apples with apples. Which means I was right in the first place

[Castrol Craig]

RobM77 said:

Let's look at this another way. Let's look at the physics. Let's forget trying to compare road with road or race with race, because we're struggling there (lord knows how though - crouched over a blade is a different world to being tucked up in an Ultima listening to the radio and sipping coffee). Let's look at the basic physics:

That Superstock time you posted - the very pinnacle of road bike engineering with the best rider on the best day and the best opportunity to get the best times. He did a mid 46.

I was down at Brands the other day and Josh Hill was testing a Formula Ford. No downforce, just a spaceframe chassis, four speed gearbox, three pedals and a standard Mondeo engine. Not a Mondeo engine out of one of their quicker cars, just a standard engine. One of our guys timed him at a mid 46.

Now how about straight line performance. Acceleration? An R1 will crack 100mph from rest in 6 seconds. Autocar got a GSXR1100 to do it in 5.5 with a pro rider. Formula Renault with a Clio engine? 4.9. Braking? 100mph to rest their superbike was slower than their benchmark Ford Focus 1.6.

It's just the fact that the CofG is lower on a car and they've got four flat contact patches vs two angled ones.

no doubt cars are better set up for cornering and braking, but this on the whole is negated by the sheer acceleration

im no fast rider, hell BN stomps me all over the show, but my 07 blade cracked 100mph quicker than 6 seconds.

i think we have all gone off topic anyway. Jakal says bikes are slow, i say bikes are not.

[EvoDelta]

It's a completely useless argument. I do not doubt that round a track like the 'ring, some cars are faster than all bikes. That is true. How focused they are is a point in question, so will always just be a good bit of banter between car drivers and bikers. I love cars and bikes so it makes me smile to see on which side people come down on the issue, does it really matter?

All I care is that I (a very slow bike rider) will beat any radical/track day queen, or any other 4 wheeled transport on my commute of 55Km to my place of work, on any day of the week, in any weather. Job done.

[Greg_D]

IOM TT times are interesting due to the 'real road' nature of the track. Unfortunately, there are no sensible modern car times to compare, thus the point is moot, comparing an old rover is frankly a bit silly.

Apologies if this has already been quoted:
Nurburgring Nordschliefe (hopefully the fact that it is bumpy as hell and has a mix of mega high speed and twisty/cambered sections will suggest that it is a fair comparison)

Radical SR8 6:55 20832m
Nissan GTR 7:29 20832m
GSXR1000 7:46 20832m
GSX-R600K7 7:17 19100m
MV Agusta F4r312 7:21 19100m
R1 7:28 19100m

Interesting reading, a fat road going 2 tonne nissan can go a long way in 17 seconds, that is how far it is ahead of a gixxer thou in the hands of a 'Fast bike' journo.

Greg

[y2blade]

Greg_D said:

IOM TT times are interesting due to the 'real road' nature of the track. Unfortunately, there are no sensible modern car times to compare, thus the point is moot, comparing an old rover is frankly a bit silly.

Apologies if this has already been quoted:
Nurburgring Nordschliefe (hopefully the fact that it is bumpy as hell and has a mix of mega high speed and twisty/cambered sections will suggest that it is a fair comparison)

Radical SR8 6:55 20832m
Nissan GTR 7:29 20832m
GSXR1000 7:46 20832m
GSX-R600K7 7:17 19100m
MV Agusta F4r312 7:21 19100m
R1 7:28 19100m

Interesting reading, a fat road going 2 tonne nissan can go a long way in 17 seconds, that is how far it is ahead of a gixxer thou in the hands of a 'Fast bike' journo.

Greg

really? or did you mix that up?

there is NO WAY the 600 lapped that much quicker than the 1000
the Radical SR8 is the daddy isn't it

[RobM77]

it's easy to forget how much we agree on:

bikes are untouchable on the road (high viewing position, acceleration, poor cornering and braking don't matter because that's not safe anyway)

bikes are not slow, as Jackal suggested (I doubt he meant it, he just wanted to sit back and watch the thread!).

In defence of the bikes mentioned above, I'm almost in disbelief of that GTR time. On paper it should be doing about a 7:50, which is funnily enough what Porsche drivers got out of it when they bought one and tested it! Needless to say, it's a huge heavy four door saloon (too lumbering for me; I'd never consider one), and it can beat/equal a loony ultimate superbike around the ring.

[y2blade]

RobM77 said:

it's easy to forget how much we agree on:

bikes are untouchable on the road (high viewing position, acceleration, poor cornering and braking don't matter because that's not safe anyway)

bikes are not slow, as Jackal suggested (I doubt he meant it, he just wanted to sit back and watch the thread!).

In defence of the bikes mentioned above, I'm almost in disbelief of that GTR time. On paper it should be doing about a 7:50, which is funnily enough what Porsche drivers got out of it when they bought one and tested it! Needless to say, it's a huge heavy four door saloon (too lumbering for me; I'd never consider one), and it can beat/equal a loony ultimate superbike around the ring.

Amen Brother

[RemyMartin]

This for me highlights both arguments beautifully

each with their own merits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk&fea...

[EvoDelta]

[redacted]

[308mate]

y2blade said:

Greg_D said:

IOM TT times are interesting due to the 'real road' nature of the track. Unfortunately, there are no sensible modern car times to compare, thus the point is moot, comparing an old rover is frankly a bit silly.

Apologies if this has already been quoted:
Nurburgring Nordschliefe (hopefully the fact that it is bumpy as hell and has a mix of mega high speed and twisty/cambered sections will suggest that it is a fair comparison)

Radical SR8 6:55 20832m
Nissan GTR 7:29 20832m
GSXR1000 7:46 20832m
GSX-R600K7 7:17 19100m
MV Agusta F4r312 7:21 19100m
R1 7:28 19100m

Interesting reading, a fat road going 2 tonne nissan can go a long way in 17 seconds, that is how far it is ahead of a gixxer thou in the hands of a 'Fast bike' journo.

Greg

really? or did you mix that up?

there is NO WAY the 600 lapped that much quicker than the 1000
the Radical SR8 is the daddy isn't it

Worth noting that the cars were likely pedalled by some sort of hired ringmeister (better for the manufacturers marketing dept.), which a Fast Bike Journo is not.

Took my bike on the ring and was overtaken by a local in a Mk1 Golf GTI. Not sure what that proves....

[Greg_D]

y2blade said:

Greg_D said:

IOM TT times are interesting due to the 'real road' nature of the track. Unfortunately, there are no sensible modern car times to compare, thus the point is moot, comparing an old rover is frankly a bit silly.

Apologies if this has already been quoted:
Nurburgring Nordschliefe (hopefully the fact that it is bumpy as hell and has a mix of mega high speed and twisty/cambered sections will suggest that it is a fair comparison)

Radical SR8 6:55 20832m
Nissan GTR 7:29 20832m
GSXR1000 7:46 20832m
GSX-R600K7 7:17 19100m
MV Agusta F4r312 7:21 19100m
R1 7:28 19100m

Interesting reading, a fat road going 2 tonne nissan can go a long way in 17 seconds, that is how far it is ahead of a gixxer thou in the hands of a 'Fast bike' journo.

Greg

really? or did you mix that up?

there is NO WAY the 600 lapped that much quicker than the 1000
the Radical SR8 is the daddy isn't it

they were on different laps, the 600 did a lap that was 1700m shorter. I quoted the distances for that very reason.

Bikes are awesome though, don't get me wrong, i would love one but admit to not having the self control necessary and would likely wrap myself round a lamp post.

Big hugs and love, i was just pointing out some facts, that's all.

Greg

[308mate]

Greg_D said:

Bikes are awesome though, don't get me wrong, i would love one but admit to not having the self control necessary and would likely wrap myself round a lamp post.



Greg

Uhuh.

Everyone who is scared of sitting a-top an engine with wheels on and going fast without a roll cage, says that.

You think we're all models of self-discipline?

[P-Jay]

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

[tori]

P-Jay said:

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

That's the sort of statement I want to hear when I'm stoned! Who would win in a mud wrestle... Jessica Rabbit or Wilma Flintsone?

[MC Bodge]

Greg_D said:

Bikes are awesome though, don't get me wrong, i would love one but admit to not having the self control necessary and would likely wrap myself round a lamp post.

No you wouldn't, but your family might not want you to get one so you tell yourself that.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 14th May 15:13

[Callyuk]

jackal said:

this is where the Volvo estate with 2 washing machines in the boot is mighty.
.

Wasnt going to reply but sod it. i own a Volvo estate the T5 version 225bhp 5 cylinder turbo as i know y2blade does as well and as much as we love them im sure he will agree that there isnt a hope in hell it will keep with 99% of most big bikes in normal road situation. would however devour my little 125 on a duel carriageway but thats about it.

[P-Jay]

tori said:

P-Jay said:

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

That's the sort of statement I want to hear when I'm stoned! Who would win in a mud wrestle... Jessica Rabbit or Wilma Flintsone?

Is it wrong I'm slightly aroused by the idea of a Jessica Rabbit v Wilma Flintstone mud wrestle..... Now if you said Betty Rubble.....

[tori]

P-Jay said:

tori said:

P-Jay said:

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

That's the sort of statement I want to hear when I'm stoned! Who would win in a mud wrestle... Jessica Rabbit or Wilma Flintsone?

Is it wrong I'm slightly aroused by the idea of a Jessica Rabbit v Wilma Flintstone mud wrestle..... Now if you said Betty Rubble.....

Versus the fit bird from "G Force"?


Wouldn't you love that to be tangible? Just a smigeon?

[P-Jay]

tori said:

P-Jay said:

tori said:

P-Jay said:

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

That's the sort of statement I want to hear when I'm stoned! Who would win in a mud wrestle... Jessica Rabbit or Wilma Flintsone?

Is it wrong I'm slightly aroused by the idea of a Jessica Rabbit v Wilma Flintstone mud wrestle..... Now if you said Betty Rubble.....

Versus the fit bird from "G Force"?


Wouldn't you love that to be tangible? Just a smigeon?

I've not seen "G Force" my Lad only likes Ben 10 and Sara 'pissing' Jane adventures, over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I don't know how kids can enjoy the same DVD the 101st view as much as they did the first time they see it.

I have however seen Jessica Rabbit's undercarrage, back-in-the-day.

[tori]

P-Jay said:

tori said:

P-Jay said:

tori said:

P-Jay said:

I know I'm 12 pages to late.

But Oh my gawd! - The OP's post is so bizarre I've turned chav.

You should write a book of your musings for us all to enjoy...

Boeing 747.... Better in a dogfight than Eurofighter because it weighs more.

Lassie.... better in a dogfight than Chuck Norris because she's a dog.

Quickest in a 100m dash Bugs Bunny v Gok Wah's dress sense - unprovable due to the 'fictional v intangible paradox'.

That's the sort of statement I want to hear when I'm stoned! Who would win in a mud wrestle... Jessica Rabbit or Wilma Flintsone?

Is it wrong I'm slightly aroused by the idea of a Jessica Rabbit v Wilma Flintstone mud wrestle..... Now if you said Betty Rubble.....

Versus the fit bird from "G Force"?


Wouldn't you love that to be tangible? Just a smigeon?

I've not seen "G Force" my Lad only likes Ben 10 and Sara 'pissing' Jane adventures, over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I don't know how kids can enjoy the same DVD the 101st view as much as they did the first time they see it.

I have however seen Jessica Rabbit's undercarrage, back-in-the-day.

That was one of the strippers in that Fantasy Lounge Joint off St Mary's street wasn't it? The big one who catered for a "Niche market"?