Aldi/Lidl Helmet - The Truth!
Discussion
budd said:
actual real life RTAs / track crashes etc.
Thats probably the only sound way of working it out, although all accidents vary enourmously so the only way to know what happened in each respective accident would be to speak to eye witnesses, the rider (assuming he/she can remember) or to fit some kind of recording/measuring device. Helmet mounted cameras are becoming increasingly popular, and must prove very useful when trying to work out what happened in an accident.paps said:
Thats probably the only sound way of working it out, although all accidents vary enourmously so the only way to know what happened in each respective accident would be to speak to eye witnesses, the rider (assuming he/she can remember) or to fit some kind of recording/measuring device. Helmet mounted cameras are becoming increasingly popular, and must prove very useful when trying to work out what happened in an accident.
On PH, there just has to be someone who works with crash test dummies, and the accelerometers, etc, that they use. It can't be too tough to hook up these sensors to helmets. You could even take folk like Police riders, racers (and others who wear helmets professionally) who attest to having found helmets which fit perfectly, and take moulds of their heads to fit those helmets. Then subject those head/helmet profiles to various impacts, rotations, glances, vibrations or actual remote controlled crashes of various orders. yes, there are lots of variables, but with enough testing of this sort some models are goin to start to rise out of the mire.Anyone know how F1 does it (ok, less variables, I know) as that's got to be some kind of a benchmark?
Ok, we can argue/ pontificate back and forth about the merits of government tests such as the Sharp Etc, but i look to some simple facts in this matter.
I've crashed, perhaps more than i'd like. I've always worn Arai and until recently tried a top line Shoei.
I've gone down at well over 100mph and thus far i seem to be in fair order.
By comparison, a good friend of mine crashed the other day at approximately 240 KPH. I was 10ft behind him and ot was the spot where Regis Laconi came to grief at Kyalami.
Much to our constant derision he always wore a cheap helmet that you wouldn't wear delivering pizza's. But he argued it had all the safety stamps etc. His bike was an RR9 blade.
The outcome of his accident was a huge concussion, several nights in hospital and a massive blood clot in his left eye that is now looking disturbing nasty. In the accident the visor separated from the helmet and while he lay in the ambulance you could see the gravel embedded in his face in the exact form of the visor opening. The visor when recovered wasn't broken or smashed but had just detached itself from its pivot point.
I on the other hand have never had such a thing happen with any of my helmets. Not even concussion. So while sharp tests may prove a single measure of an impact at x point at y velocity theres a lot more that happens in an accident than such tests can quantify. My Arai's have never failed me when needed and i would rather throw a £600 helmet away and get on with my life than spend days in hospital for saving a few quid. Scientific i know its not, but i work on the "don't tell me- show me" principle. And Arai has done just that for me.
Helmets are a personal choice and I'll never chastise anyone for what they use. But please don't try to tell me a Lidl is comparable to and Arai. Just because it resists a single impact in a laboratory environment is not the whole truth.
Steve
I've crashed, perhaps more than i'd like. I've always worn Arai and until recently tried a top line Shoei.
I've gone down at well over 100mph and thus far i seem to be in fair order.
By comparison, a good friend of mine crashed the other day at approximately 240 KPH. I was 10ft behind him and ot was the spot where Regis Laconi came to grief at Kyalami.
Much to our constant derision he always wore a cheap helmet that you wouldn't wear delivering pizza's. But he argued it had all the safety stamps etc. His bike was an RR9 blade.
The outcome of his accident was a huge concussion, several nights in hospital and a massive blood clot in his left eye that is now looking disturbing nasty. In the accident the visor separated from the helmet and while he lay in the ambulance you could see the gravel embedded in his face in the exact form of the visor opening. The visor when recovered wasn't broken or smashed but had just detached itself from its pivot point.
I on the other hand have never had such a thing happen with any of my helmets. Not even concussion. So while sharp tests may prove a single measure of an impact at x point at y velocity theres a lot more that happens in an accident than such tests can quantify. My Arai's have never failed me when needed and i would rather throw a £600 helmet away and get on with my life than spend days in hospital for saving a few quid. Scientific i know its not, but i work on the "don't tell me- show me" principle. And Arai has done just that for me.
Helmets are a personal choice and I'll never chastise anyone for what they use. But please don't try to tell me a Lidl is comparable to and Arai. Just because it resists a single impact in a laboratory environment is not the whole truth.
Steve
Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 11th March 07:40
I don't think that anyone is seriously sugesting that a Lidl special is going to be as 'good' as a 600 quid Arai.
Very few people can afford to spend £600 on a lid though (me included), so compromises have to be made. I'm afraid that by choosing to ride a bike you have already made compromises on safety; you are by definition of exposing yourself to knocks you wouldn't get in a car.
I would wear one, but that's based on my riding, experience and usage. I don't ride at 100mph, I don't do that many miles per year and most of my riding is B-roads. I wear an open faced lid and jeans now that I just ride the classic bikes. I know that if I crash it could quite possibly end badly, but I also know that I've enjoyed many thousnads of miles in the freedom I feel riding like this. I've been riding for 15 years on the road now, and passengered on a bike all of my life (literally). I've had the odd spill and I've seen the results of some horrendous ones, and those exxperiences have shaped my decision.
I agree with Rob that there should be more to the standards than just a pass or fail; there should be a reliable rating system that all manufacturers adhere to and allow people to make their own decisions without having to rely on experience that only comes with time. I don't think that by following the racers you're necessarily making those decisions with your eyes wide open. I'd be amazed if they all paid for their lids, my brothers' a humble bike journo and he's never paid for a lid in his life (and gets far less exposure than BSB etc riders).
Very few people can afford to spend £600 on a lid though (me included), so compromises have to be made. I'm afraid that by choosing to ride a bike you have already made compromises on safety; you are by definition of exposing yourself to knocks you wouldn't get in a car.
I would wear one, but that's based on my riding, experience and usage. I don't ride at 100mph, I don't do that many miles per year and most of my riding is B-roads. I wear an open faced lid and jeans now that I just ride the classic bikes. I know that if I crash it could quite possibly end badly, but I also know that I've enjoyed many thousnads of miles in the freedom I feel riding like this. I've been riding for 15 years on the road now, and passengered on a bike all of my life (literally). I've had the odd spill and I've seen the results of some horrendous ones, and those exxperiences have shaped my decision.
I agree with Rob that there should be more to the standards than just a pass or fail; there should be a reliable rating system that all manufacturers adhere to and allow people to make their own decisions without having to rely on experience that only comes with time. I don't think that by following the racers you're necessarily making those decisions with your eyes wide open. I'd be amazed if they all paid for their lids, my brothers' a humble bike journo and he's never paid for a lid in his life (and gets far less exposure than BSB etc riders).
Biker's Nemesis said:
shouldbworking said:
Silver993tt said:
They are top quality, the only difference is you're not paying for a big brand name & all of the marketing.
Not quite true. You are also paying for an easy means of identifying the brand snobs and people unable to make their own decisions
I could have gone for the sharp tests showing it better than 'premium' brands response
The only thing anyone can say for certain is that there is no definitive proof on this subject, and by extension that anyone lauding those purchasing these lids are doing so without any scientific basis, and thus my statement is perfectly accurate.
One of these unbranded lids provokes debate, and will allow you by means of that debate to readily identify those who are happy to spend significant sums of money for something based on nothing more than testimonials not supported by science. Ametech engine restore anyone? (ok, if you look around that is actually scientifically disproven so a bit of a shonky comparison)
peace all, its a lovely day outside, enjoy riding
Well said bass GT3, I agree with everything all of that post, I know it’s anecdotal and non scientific but it’s something you hear from Arai wearers time after time so much so it can’t be coincidence or owners simply trying to justify the premium price.
I too have an Arai crash story (several in fact) and as a result place my trust in Arai without a second thought, that said the quality of ‘budget’ Helmets as increased massively over the years, when I was looking for a new helmet last year I was genuinely impressed by some of the lids, and even though I still bought an Arai I’m sure you can buy a very good helmet for £100 -150.
Here's a pick of some of my helmets
the Arai on the left is 21 yrs old!!! and is still(superficially at least) is in great condition, the centre is my new RX7 on the right is my car racing h elmet from V2pro a company I’m sure very few have heard of, I bought this budget lid (£150) to replace an old damage Arai GP and I’ll hold my hands up and say I bought it solely on price and after briefly trying on a friends and to be honest it’s very very good not quite as good as an Arai but considering the gulf in price ( a new GP6 would start at about £600) it’s remarkably close and amazing that they can produce a Snell 2005 / MSA approved helmet for so little money and remember they’re making profit on that price so god knows what it actually costs to produce.
I think the same applies to budget MC helmets and you don't need a to spend a fortune to buy a good lid.
I too have an Arai crash story (several in fact) and as a result place my trust in Arai without a second thought, that said the quality of ‘budget’ Helmets as increased massively over the years, when I was looking for a new helmet last year I was genuinely impressed by some of the lids, and even though I still bought an Arai I’m sure you can buy a very good helmet for £100 -150.
Here's a pick of some of my helmets
the Arai on the left is 21 yrs old!!! and is still(superficially at least) is in great condition, the centre is my new RX7 on the right is my car racing h elmet from V2pro a company I’m sure very few have heard of, I bought this budget lid (£150) to replace an old damage Arai GP and I’ll hold my hands up and say I bought it solely on price and after briefly trying on a friends and to be honest it’s very very good not quite as good as an Arai but considering the gulf in price ( a new GP6 would start at about £600) it’s remarkably close and amazing that they can produce a Snell 2005 / MSA approved helmet for so little money and remember they’re making profit on that price so god knows what it actually costs to produce.
I think the same applies to budget MC helmets and you don't need a to spend a fortune to buy a good lid.
Edited by budd on Friday 11th March 09:49
Biker's Nemesis said:
SHARP based their testing on how solid helmets were which anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that isn't the way a helmet works.
Not quite, they test how much force from an external impact is transferred to the "head" inside. Absorbing, and spreading the force of an impact is precisely the way a good helmet works. I will agree the test is very limited, since they only look at a handful of specific areas, whereas you don't get to choose where you get hit in a crash. However, IMO it does test the helmet in exactly the way it's designed to work.I wonder how Arai manage to design these apparently awesome helmets? Do they have fleets of riders throwing themselves off bikes, since it seems this is the only reliable way of testing?
Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 11th March 09:57
Biker's Nemesis said:
Where has all this £600 for a helmet come from? the helmet I wear cost £200 brand new, in a box!
I've got some good anecdotal first hand experience but I will keep those experiences to myself.
I was referring to BassGT3's post where he specifically mentioned a £600 helmet.I've got some good anecdotal first hand experience but I will keep those experiences to myself.
redstu said:
Apart from fit are there any features which are good/bad?
Whilst flip up fronts seem like a good idea if they could flip during an accident that clearly would be bad , they also add extra weight.
Is there a summary of things to look out for somewhere?
er .... yes ...... SHARP!Whilst flip up fronts seem like a good idea if they could flip during an accident that clearly would be bad , they also add extra weight.
Is there a summary of things to look out for somewhere?
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