Chim Hard Top Pics
Discussion
Great to see the positive responses to the pics guy's
The Horse said:
Looks great. If it can use the standard targa panel then that would keep costs down a bit too ?
In theory this is possible, but I think overall it would be more work and hassle than just getting both panels as a matching pair.The reason for this is because trying to mix and match original targa panels to the rear section would show up slight differences in the shape.
It's unlikely that two original TVR targa panels are identical and they tend to be specific to the car they were originally fitted to, so for example swapping one from car to car could show up differences where the targa panel aligns up to the windscreen, and may not be a perfectly flush fit to the rear section either.
The Malaysian-style rear section and its matching targa panel had a skim of filler across the joint line at the mock-up stage, and then blocked down so they matched flush to each other, then the mould was taken.
If luck was on your side, and you happened to have an existing targa panel that was a nice fit up to your windscreen, and was also a good flush fit up to the Malaysian rear section (without any of the corners sitting proud, etc), then in theory all you need to do is strip the old canvas off your existing targa, clean up the surface and make sure the profile is filled smooth (expect to find a poor surface under the canvas), and then add the cant profile with filler down each side so it follows through from the 'C' pillar on the rear section, and then prep & paint them.
Overall I think having a matching pair of panels supplied would definitely be a lot easier and cheaper overall, although I'd be happy to just provide the rear section if someone was prepared to carry out the work described above to their existing targa.
Steve.
So do I Phil, fingers crossed.
There is good news though, there seems to be noticeably less build time with this version compared to the original hardtop which will make it a easier and cheaper to make.
The shape of this Malaysian rear section lends itself to being clamped down easier than my original hardtop - the strong rear pillars on the Malaysian hardtop mean I can place the clamps behind these and pulling down at an angle which keeps the struts nicely tensioned.
Because my original hardtop remains faithful to the style of the original soft top the anchoring methods under the rear screen are restrictive - I have to fabricate a metal strengthener from a small diameter tube, carefully bent to follow the fibreglass shape, and which discreetly bonds in place horizontally under the full width of the rear window, with specially cut ends and MIG welded joints to accept the quick release catches. This alone can easily take half a day to fabricate, then it needs carefully positioning and bonding in place.
This new version needs none of that, so straight away there's a time/cost saving which can be passed on.
Steve.
There is good news though, there seems to be noticeably less build time with this version compared to the original hardtop which will make it a easier and cheaper to make.
The shape of this Malaysian rear section lends itself to being clamped down easier than my original hardtop - the strong rear pillars on the Malaysian hardtop mean I can place the clamps behind these and pulling down at an angle which keeps the struts nicely tensioned.
Because my original hardtop remains faithful to the style of the original soft top the anchoring methods under the rear screen are restrictive - I have to fabricate a metal strengthener from a small diameter tube, carefully bent to follow the fibreglass shape, and which discreetly bonds in place horizontally under the full width of the rear window, with specially cut ends and MIG welded joints to accept the quick release catches. This alone can easily take half a day to fabricate, then it needs carefully positioning and bonding in place.
This new version needs none of that, so straight away there's a time/cost saving which can be passed on.
Steve.
Steve-Edwards said:
In theory this is possible, but I think overall it would be more work and hassle than just getting both panels as a matching pair.
The reason for this is because trying to mix and match original targa panels to the rear section would show up slight differences in the shape.
It's unlikely that two original TVR targa panels are identical and they tend to be specific to the car they were originally fitted to, so for example swapping one from car to car could show up differences where the targa panel aligns up to the windscreen, and may not be a perfectly flush fit to the rear section either.
The Malaysian-style rear section and its matching targa panel had a skim of filler across the joint line at the mock-up stage, and then blocked down so they matched flush to each other, then the mould was taken.
If luck was on your side, and you happened to have an existing targa panel that was a nice fit up to your windscreen, and was also a good flush fit up to the Malaysian rear section (without any of the corners sitting proud, etc), then in theory all you need to do is strip the old canvas off your existing targa, clean up the surface and make sure the profile is filled smooth (expect to find a poor surface under the canvas), and then add the cant profile with filler down each side so it follows through from the 'C' pillar on the rear section, and then prep & paint them.
Overall I think having a matching pair of panels supplied would definitely be a lot easier and cheaper overall, although I'd be happy to just provide the rear section if someone was prepared to carry out the work described above to their existing targa.
Steve.
For a proper fit and seal, it is often the case that each targa top needs to be slightly customised to fit each Chim due to the natural variation form the hand making process.The reason for this is because trying to mix and match original targa panels to the rear section would show up slight differences in the shape.
It's unlikely that two original TVR targa panels are identical and they tend to be specific to the car they were originally fitted to, so for example swapping one from car to car could show up differences where the targa panel aligns up to the windscreen, and may not be a perfectly flush fit to the rear section either.
The Malaysian-style rear section and its matching targa panel had a skim of filler across the joint line at the mock-up stage, and then blocked down so they matched flush to each other, then the mould was taken.
If luck was on your side, and you happened to have an existing targa panel that was a nice fit up to your windscreen, and was also a good flush fit up to the Malaysian rear section (without any of the corners sitting proud, etc), then in theory all you need to do is strip the old canvas off your existing targa, clean up the surface and make sure the profile is filled smooth (expect to find a poor surface under the canvas), and then add the cant profile with filler down each side so it follows through from the 'C' pillar on the rear section, and then prep & paint them.
Overall I think having a matching pair of panels supplied would definitely be a lot easier and cheaper overall, although I'd be happy to just provide the rear section if someone was prepared to carry out the work described above to their existing targa.
Steve.
Most people already have a (custom-shaped) well-fitting targa - and supplying a new targa would require the same customisation process to be applied in order to profile it to the correct shape etc...
Re-using the existing targa would minimise cost, both in terms of initial purchase and "fitment fettling" (as well as final painting) - you say that using filler might be a method of reducing cost, but that the existing targa's have a poor finish underneath the canvas and will require some sort of work to get smooth...
Might an alternative solution be to create a thin (fibreglass/vacuum-formed-plastic) shaped "skin" instead that could be bonded to the top of the existing targa roof, thus eliminating the need for a new targa (with its cost and re-profiling implications) and solving the poor-finish issues in one fell swoop, whilst still appearing to "match up" the rooflines...? (if the skin came down to the window rubbers, there would be no join lines etc)
Just a thought...
Dom
Thinking about it - I reckon fitment may be a bit of a red herring...:
Therefore, if you can fit a skin for much less cost (with perhaps a little adjustment to get corners flush etc as mentioned by Steve previously) - why re-invent the wheel (targa!), by recreating something 97% identical for much more cost..?
Dom
- Existing targa: fits windscreen, may need re-profiling to fit rear
- New targa: fits rear, may need re-profiling to fit windscreen
Therefore, if you can fit a skin for much less cost (with perhaps a little adjustment to get corners flush etc as mentioned by Steve previously) - why re-invent the wheel (targa!), by recreating something 97% identical for much more cost..?
Dom
Dominic TVRetto said:
For a proper fit and seal, it is often the case that each targa top needs to be slightly customised to fit each Chim due to the natural variation form the hand making process.
Most people already have a (custom-shaped) well-fitting targa - and supplying a new targa would require the same customisation process to be applied in order to profile it to the correct shape etc...
Re-using the existing targa would minimise cost, both in terms of initial purchase and "fitment fettling" (as well as final painting) - you say that using filler might be a method of reducing cost, but that the existing targa's have a poor finish underneath the canvas and will require some sort of work to get smooth...
Might an alternative solution be to create a thin (fibreglass/vacuum-formed-plastic) shaped "skin" instead that could be bonded to the top of the existing targa roof, thus eliminating the need for a new targa (with its cost and re-profiling implications) and solving the poor-finish issues in one fell swoop, whilst still appearing to "match up" the rooflines...? (if the skin came down to the window rubbers, there would be no join lines etc)
Just a thought...
Dom
I see where you're coming from Dom, but I build my targa panels in a way which gets around the problems you've listed.Most people already have a (custom-shaped) well-fitting targa - and supplying a new targa would require the same customisation process to be applied in order to profile it to the correct shape etc...
Re-using the existing targa would minimise cost, both in terms of initial purchase and "fitment fettling" (as well as final painting) - you say that using filler might be a method of reducing cost, but that the existing targa's have a poor finish underneath the canvas and will require some sort of work to get smooth...
Might an alternative solution be to create a thin (fibreglass/vacuum-formed-plastic) shaped "skin" instead that could be bonded to the top of the existing targa roof, thus eliminating the need for a new targa (with its cost and re-profiling implications) and solving the poor-finish issues in one fell swoop, whilst still appearing to "match up" the rooflines...? (if the skin came down to the window rubbers, there would be no join lines etc)
Just a thought...
Dom
These targa's are pretty much a lightweight outer skin like you describe above, and they sit on a fibreglass 'frame' underneath which is identical to the existing underside profile but with the entire centre area removed - just leaving the lip/frame running around all four sides.
This makes the targa a LOT lighter than the heavy original items, and by having the lip around the edge they can be easily held in one hand making them a lot easier to manhandle into the boot.
The two sections - outer skin and underside frame, after test fitting, are bonded together with high strength Polyurethane sealant (Sikaflex) and then fitted to the car to cure overnight.
When fully set, the inner and outer sections are perfectly bonded to suit the individual car - the front conforms to the windscreen shape and the rear conforms to the rear header profile, so there's no need for any further custom shaping, no filler needed, no problem with proud corners, etc.
This small amount of built-in flex eliminates any poor fitment compared to the solid originals which just won't 'give' at all.
All that's left to do it trim any excess sealant from the edges, prime and paint.
I've just carried out the above procedure bonding the two halves of the targa to my car a couple of days ago, and the whole thing from start to finish only took about an hour.
My car had a replacement screen about 6 years ago and my original targa panel (which was the solid/thick/rigid TVR part) always sat slightly proud at the drivers front corner afterwards, but using the two-section bonding method I can get this front corner sitting nice by taping it down while the sealant sets.
Steve-Edwards said:
I see where you're coming from Dom, but I build my targa panels in a way which gets around the problems you've listed.
These targa's are pretty much a lightweight outer skin like you describe above, and they sit on a fibreglass 'frame' underneath which is identical to the existing underside profile but with the entire centre area removed - just leaving the lip/frame running around all four sides.
This makes the targa a LOT lighter than the heavy original items, and by having the lip around the edge they can be easily held in one hand making them a lot easier to manhandle into the boot.
The two sections - outer skin and underside frame, after test fitting, are bonded together with high strength Polyurethane sealant (Sikaflex) and then fitted to the car to cure overnight.
When fully set, the inner and outer sections are perfectly bonded to suit the individual car - the front conforms to the windscreen shape and the rear conforms to the rear header profile, so there's no need for any further custom shaping, no filler needed, no problem with proud corners, etc.
This small amount of built-in flex eliminates any poor fitment compared to the solid originals which just won't 'give' at all.
All that's left to do it trim any excess sealant from the edges, prime and paint.
I've just carried out the above procedure bonding the two halves of the targa to my car a couple of days ago, and the whole thing from start to finish only took about an hour.
My car had a replacement screen about 6 years ago and my original targa panel (which was the solid/thick/rigid TVR part) always sat slightly proud at the drivers front corner afterwards, but using the two-section bonding method I can get this front corner sitting nice by taping it down while the sealant sets.
Wow, this is very impressive.These targa's are pretty much a lightweight outer skin like you describe above, and they sit on a fibreglass 'frame' underneath which is identical to the existing underside profile but with the entire centre area removed - just leaving the lip/frame running around all four sides.
This makes the targa a LOT lighter than the heavy original items, and by having the lip around the edge they can be easily held in one hand making them a lot easier to manhandle into the boot.
The two sections - outer skin and underside frame, after test fitting, are bonded together with high strength Polyurethane sealant (Sikaflex) and then fitted to the car to cure overnight.
When fully set, the inner and outer sections are perfectly bonded to suit the individual car - the front conforms to the windscreen shape and the rear conforms to the rear header profile, so there's no need for any further custom shaping, no filler needed, no problem with proud corners, etc.
This small amount of built-in flex eliminates any poor fitment compared to the solid originals which just won't 'give' at all.
All that's left to do it trim any excess sealant from the edges, prime and paint.
I've just carried out the above procedure bonding the two halves of the targa to my car a couple of days ago, and the whole thing from start to finish only took about an hour.
My car had a replacement screen about 6 years ago and my original targa panel (which was the solid/thick/rigid TVR part) always sat slightly proud at the drivers front corner afterwards, but using the two-section bonding method I can get this front corner sitting nice by taping it down while the sealant sets.
Looking at this process makes me wonder if you could sort out my folding Surrey top fit in the same way Steve?
Don't get me wrong the folding Surrey top is a great bit of kit and it doesn't leak at all, but the fit around the header rail/screen corners on my car could definitely be a little better.
Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
Wow, this is very impressive.
Looking at this process makes me wonder if you could sort out my folding Surrey top fit in the same way Steve?
Don't get me wrong the folding Surrey top is a great bit of kit and it doesn't leak at all, but the fit around the header rail/screen corners on my car could definitely be a little better.
Dave.
I must admit Dave I've never even seen a Surrey Roof up close, so I've no knowledge of how it works exactly.Looking at this process makes me wonder if you could sort out my folding Surrey top fit in the same way Steve?
Don't get me wrong the folding Surrey top is a great bit of kit and it doesn't leak at all, but the fit around the header rail/screen corners on my car could definitely be a little better.
Dave.
Like you say though I've heard it's a neat idea and works well - a godsend if you need a quick targa without emptying the boot.
Steve.
wow, that does look very good, first I thought, the rear window is a bit high to the top, but looking at the red race car, that one looks even a bit higher, but it has some wide window sticker (fusion racing) on it, so it looks different/lower, but it is even a bit higher, so well done Steve, also way more functional your hardtop.
see
see
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 18th November 20:56
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