Discussion
ChimpofDarkness said:
While there are longevity benefits in moving to iridium plugs I think the main advantage is that the electrode is projected, placing the spark further into the combustion chamber has to be better.
To this end I expect you'll see similar benefits if you just fit a set of NGK BPR6ES like this.
It's worth noting that many of the Rover V8 engine specialist recommend moving away from the shrouded NGK B7ECS to a projected electrode plug like a NGK BPR6ES.
I chose to go from the original 7 heat range to a hotter 6 as it seemed the 7's were fouling slightly.
I think you may have been misinformed as to why plugs with recessed tips are used where there are no clearance issues, it has nothing to do with the position of the spark. The reason a plug like a B7ECS is used is that it is better at dealing with combustion chamber vibration and has a shorter (and therefore stronger) ground electrode which is better at dispersing electrode heat. Where extreme heats issues are a problem they are a better bet and TVR would have chosen this more expensive plug for a reason, it wasn't by mistake!To this end I expect you'll see similar benefits if you just fit a set of NGK BPR6ES like this.
It's worth noting that many of the Rover V8 engine specialist recommend moving away from the shrouded NGK B7ECS to a projected electrode plug like a NGK BPR6ES.
I chose to go from the original 7 heat range to a hotter 6 as it seemed the 7's were fouling slightly.
A BP7ES (or variants) type plug is a basic "bulk" plug which has two advantages, lower price when bought at case rates and a larger gap range to allow for different applications.
Iridium plugs last longer, are essential for modern cars that run lean, but as to whether they are better on a basically old school engine is debatable and probably a waste of money. The projected tip has disadvantages over the ECS as well as advantages, you pays your money you takes your choice.
If your engine is tuned and running properly there is no way you would have to go to a hotter plug, you ought to be going the other way if anything.
Ribol said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
While there are longevity benefits in moving to iridium plugs I think the main advantage is that the electrode is projected, placing the spark further into the combustion chamber has to be better.
To this end I expect you'll see similar benefits if you just fit a set of NGK BPR6ES like this.
It's worth noting that many of the Rover V8 engine specialist recommend moving away from the shrouded NGK B7ECS to a projected electrode plug like a NGK BPR6ES.
I chose to go from the original 7 heat range to a hotter 6 as it seemed the 7's were fouling slightly.
I think you may have been misinformed as to why plugs with recessed tips are used where there are no clearance issues, it has nothing to do with the position of the spark. The reason a plug like a B7ECS is used is that it is better at dealing with combustion chamber vibration and has a shorter (and therefore stronger) ground electrode which is better at dispersing electrode heat. Where extreme heats issues are a problem they are a better bet and TVR would have chosen this more expensive plug for a reason, it wasn't by mistake!To this end I expect you'll see similar benefits if you just fit a set of NGK BPR6ES like this.
It's worth noting that many of the Rover V8 engine specialist recommend moving away from the shrouded NGK B7ECS to a projected electrode plug like a NGK BPR6ES.
I chose to go from the original 7 heat range to a hotter 6 as it seemed the 7's were fouling slightly.
A BP7ES (or variants) type plug is a basic "bulk" plug which has two advantages, lower price when bought at case rates and a larger gap range to allow for different applications.
Iridium plugs last longer, are essential for modern cars that run lean, but as to whether they are better on a basically old school engine is debatable and probably a waste of money. The projected tip has disadvantages over the ECS as well as advantages, you pays your money you takes your choice.
If your engine is tuned and running properly there is no way you would have to go to a hotter plug, you ought to be going the other way if anything.
TVR fitted those plugs to be on the safe side IMO but they def over estimated the combustion conditions thus fitting this type of plug ECS I would imagine that plug could withstand some serious abuse looking at the recessed electrode's shallow design but the TVR RV8 engine is never going to exploit these even in the higher 500/4.3BV whatever spec. NGK are a very high quality plug and even the protruding variant can withstand anything the RV8 cam throw at it inc Turbo/SC etc as long as you don't exceed the heat range 
and NGK's are very wide but that's another story 
I will be sticking to my protruding tipped BCPR7E 
Edited by Simon says on Thursday 12th July 13:12
carsy said:
Anyone know the reasoning behind the shrouded b7ecs plugs.
The shrouded NGK B7ECS is really an endurance racing plug in my opinion.I have no idea why TVR specified it for their RV8 road cars, why on earth would you need a stronger electrode when thousands of rough treatment Land Rovers & Range Rovers get on perfectly well without them.
I can only assume it was a carry over from the Tuscan Challenge cars running the RV8.
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
Think about how much stop start driving & idling you do in the real world these days, a shrouded plug in a 7 heat range may be ideal for the race track or in a forced induction application but it can't be ideal in a road car surely?
Every TVR I have seen running the B7ECS seems to exhibit early signs of fouling when you look closely at the plugs, mine certainly did.
I simply don't get this with the BPR6EIX, they come out looking perfect so as far as I'm concerned they must be promoting far better combustion.
As for lean burn, this was Fords baby in the early nineties, they proved you can safely deliver significant economy improvements by running very lean mixtures at part throttle.
What killed lean burn technology was the EU legislation that forced manufacturers to fit catalytic converters, and cats don't last a minute in lean burn engines.
My TVR has no cats, so I will be taking advantage of leaning it out on part throttle cruise conditions, my new Canems system is able to respond in milliseconds to snap engine load changes so I can't see an issue with 16:1 on cruise.
The 4.0 litre serpentine pistons are extremely strong & hot spots should not be an issue at 16:1, Ford ran 21:1 and those engines really didn't exhibit components with significantly better metallurgy.
IMHO the biggest weakness in our cars is on the ignition side, more specifically the distributor & coil arrangement.
Forget the archaic mechanical advance & retard element for a minute, and take a look at the strength of the spark generated by a canister coil when compared with modern coil packs.
Anything you can do to improve this situation has to be a good thing in my book, if you are still running the old distributor & coil system even fitting some better spark plugs will deliver noticeable improvements.
As proved on my car when I fitted the set of BPR6EIX.
Honestly, I kid you not, these plugs made a big difference for me.
I think they cost me about £20.00 more than a new set of the original B7ECS and they last more than twice as long too.
If you like your shrouded B7ECS then stick with them by all means.
I have just given you the benefit of my experience on my car in moving from the B7ECS to a set of BPR6EIX.
And in my experience a set of BPR6EIX is a no brainer.
Oh I forgot to mention, my radio reception is better with the resistor BPR6EIX too & I don't run plug extenders any more either.
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Thursday 12th July 14:12
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ChimpofDarkness said:
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
You mean like the Chimaera I have run for 10 years living in London, which has never done anything other than run perfectly in or out of traffic - you don't half post some rubbish.Ribol said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
You mean like the Chimaera I have run for 10 years living in London, which has never done anything other than run perfectly in or out of traffic - you don't half post some rubbish.Ribol said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
You mean like the Chimaera I have run for 10 years living in London, which has never done anything other than run perfectly in or out of traffic - you don't half post some rubbish.It really doesn't show you in a good light amongst the group.
Disagree with me by all means, that's what the forum is all about.
Debate is healthy but aggression is ugly mate, it does you no favours.
I have just tried to share my real world experiences of moving to a projected electrode plug with the group, I don't expect everyone to agree but I also don't take kindly to unnecessary aggression.
It's rather sad you consistently take this approach with me, I can only assume I have unwittingly upset you at some point which has provoked some kind of childish vendetta in you.
If this is the case I sincerely apologise and will be glad to meet you face to face & say the same, those in the group that do know me personally I hope will agree that I always endeavour to treat people with respect.
Something I have yet to experience from yourself in any of your responses to my posts.
If your TVR runs well on the NGK B7ECS then I am extremely happy for you, all I would say is my car ran very well on them to, as it did on the Lucas 14CUX & distributor.
But please don't try and tell me I'm talking rubbish when I suggest things can be improved, history has taught us time & time again that technology moves on, those that choose to ignore this often get left behind.
Now can we try and play nicely in the sand pit from now on Ribol, after all we share the same hobby & love for these cars so by rights we should be mates not bickering enemies.
I'm happy to meet you half way by extending a hand of friendship, I would be delighted if you could find the maturity to accept it.
If you prefer to take it off-line then PM me by all means, but I'd like to think this is the beginning of the end to the constant sniping you seem to think is acceptable to throw my way.
Let this be start of an improved relationship between us.
I'm ready for that, are you?
Kind regards, Dave.
Ribol said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
You mean like the Chimaera I have run for 10 years living in London, which has never done anything other than run perfectly in or out of traffic - you don't half post some rubbish.
SILICONEKID340HP said:
We all get it time to time , i take it with a pinch of salt,
Back to the thread
All i want is a Restrictive B7ECS spark plug and to get my car started so i can test my new Gaz Monos .
Made a balls up somewhere
Daz trace each lead back from coil to plug looking for any damage burn mark's split insulation etc, if you say you have put the leads back to where they was previously then its probably because you may have disturbed something, got to say though mate I would have to tidy up your HT leads they look a mess & I am not surprised your getting misfires/backfiring Back to the thread
All i want is a Restrictive B7ECS spark plug and to get my car started so i can test my new Gaz Monos .
Made a balls up somewhere
Simon says said:
SILICONEKID340HP said:
We all get it time to time , i take it with a pinch of salt,
Back to the thread
All i want is a Restrictive B7ECS spark plug and to get my car started so i can test my new Gaz Monos .
Made a balls up somewhere
Daz trace each lead back from coil to plug looking for any damage burn mark's split insulation etc, if you say you have put the leads back to where they was previously then its probably because you may have disturbed something, got to say though mate I would have to tidy up your HT leads they look a mess & I am not surprised your getting misfires/backfiring Back to the thread
All i want is a Restrictive B7ECS spark plug and to get my car started so i can test my new Gaz Monos .
Made a balls up somewhere
I only got trwo mixed up and now it`s a right mess !
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 12th July 17:30
Simon says said:
Simon, can my Magnecores be used mate? 
Yes they can, my 1st set i made up using my old RV8 dizzy HT leads, the Chevy leads as you can imagine had to have s
t loads cut of to suit the baby Rover 8 
i just crimped s/hand Ford OE ends (Motorcraft are the best quality) onto these to suit my coil packs & managing to squeeze these fat leads into the original 7mm coil ends/gaiters using silicone spray 
although it depends where the Lloyds mount the coil packs 
but they probably use this kind of crowd for that http://www.formulapower.com/ I notice they do their own thermal socks too Thanks again Simon, the Lloyd boys have agreed to use my Magnecore leads.
Lloyd Specialist Developments are proving very easy to deal and show a great customer focus.
I spent two hours going over the installation and received an overview of the software, these after market engine management systems are littered with benefits when you compare with a dizzy & 14CUX.
Lets see how the Canems system pans out in the next few weeks, "Bassfiend" (Phil) seems happy with his, so I have every confidence.
Anyone want a plug & play ECU & Tornado chip package for their Lucas 14CUX?
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Thursday 12th July 17:41
You know, the ironic thing is many of the NOS and forced induction guys in the jap tuning world are advocating wholesale junking of iridium projected nose plugs in favour of, yep you guessed it, good old B7ECS NGKs on grounds of durability and robustness in application.
I run BR8ECS at the moment just because there is no resitor variant of the 7; not fouled any. Ever.
That said, they do make a BR6ECS and I may try those next
I run BR8ECS at the moment just because there is no resitor variant of the 7; not fouled any. Ever.
That said, they do make a BR6ECS and I may try those next
Pupp said:
You know, the ironic thing is many of the NOS and forced induction guys in the jap tuning world are advocating wholesale junking of iridium projected nose plugs in favour of, yep you guessed it, good old B7ECS NGKs on grounds of durability and robustness in application.
I run BR8ECS at the moment just because there is no resitor variant of the 7; not fouled any. Ever.
That said, they do make a BR6ECS and I may try those next
Have you had a look at the BR7ES (used alot on two stroke engines) ,they are resrtictive and don`t have the projected tip ..I wonder how they differ.I run BR8ECS at the moment just because there is no resitor variant of the 7; not fouled any. Ever.
That said, they do make a BR6ECS and I may try those next
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Thursday 12th July 19:37
ChimpofDarkness said:
Ribol said:
ChimpofDarkness said:
I can see how a B7ECS could work well in that application, but for a road car that is subject to normal traffic conditions a 7 plug seems a bit on the cool side.
You mean like the Chimaera I have run for 10 years living in London, which has never done anything other than run perfectly in or out of traffic - you don't half post some rubbish.I have read everything I wrote again and am 100% comfortable with every word of it. If I come across something posted that I know to be inaccurate information I will point it out, not to have a go at anyone but for the benefit of anyone taking their "advice" in the future. If you feel you have had more attention from me in that regard then draw your own conclusions as to why that may be but rest assured it isn't any sort of vendetta as you put it. I have learnt plenty on here from all sorts of very knowledgeable people, I have also read plenty of rubbish that people post simply because they can, that is the nature of public forums for you I guess.
What I posted above was not my opinion it was information given to me by a techie a Champion years ago and I shared it. If you feel it conflicts with your views that doesn't matter to me at all because plugs are his day job. As to the case in point, the B7ECS, TVR specced them for a reason and I happen to believe they were right. All the big boys who service these cars put the same plug back in to this day, maybe that isn't the right thing to do but they have been getting away with it. I have had no issues with the 10 sets that have gone into mine so I don't need convincing. You are happy with your iridiums so everyone is happy, great.
Apart from that
Pupp said:
You know, the ironic thing is many of the NOS and forced induction guys in the jap tuning world are advocating wholesale junking of iridium projected nose plugs in favour of, yep you guessed it, good old B7ECS NGKs on grounds of durability and robustness in application.
For reasons explained to me by a Champion techie bloke years ago, see above.
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