Turbo upgrade on RV8
Discussion
Both the 400 and 450 are good to Turbo.
Turbo negates the need for an aggressive cam but does require a very strong bottom end and good compression. I’d replace the cam and vernier timing gear personally.
Unless it’s a low mileage engine your best bet is to have a refresh of the engine so crank shells or even a regrind if scoring is present and possibly new ( gapped) piston rings and a quick hone of the bores at the very least.
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
If your looking for around 350 hp and a similar torque figure you might be better off simply rebuilding a 450 engine to a sports spec coupled with a decent ecu and maybe ported heads similar to a 500 and you should make around 320 bhp and just as importantly around 340 ft of torque.
People often mention bhp as the important figure but F1 now have huge torque figures and the cars accelerate faster than ever. RV engines don’t Rev, 6000 being a safe figure so turbo are all puffed out by 6000 anyway.
Go for torque over bhp and the car should feel very fast at any revs which is why I’d personally go for a rebuilt top line engine full of compression using a modern Ecu. In the real world there will be very little noticeable difference between such an engine and a mildly tuned turbo engine.
Having watched others turbo their TVR rarely is it a fit and forget and often ends up costing for an engine rebuild then all the cost of turbo install and an Ecu to manage it to be reliable.
Turbo ing a worn engine is a recipe for disaster imho.
Non of these options are a cheap way to gain more power.
Turbo cars can be hard to sell later down the line so be aware of that.
In fact one owner removed the turbo to actually get it sold
If your concerned with cost then just buy a good 500 which will feel just as fast as a turbo 400 and far more sellable.
Another thing to consider is a worn 450 will feel a lot slower than a rebuilt one as suggested above.The 450 in later Chims are almost stock RR with just a cam change so ripe for tuning. A rebuilt one should feel a lot stronger.
I’d try to test a few 450 and especially a rebuilt one with good cam and an aftermarket Ecu ( if you can find one) that will give you a good bench mark for power.
If you need more power after that then fill your boots and put a turbo on it.
A bit like Ecu changes, choose an installer or mapper first then discuss how to achieve your goal as travelling miles addressing setting up issues would be a pain, time consuming and expensive.
Turbo negates the need for an aggressive cam but does require a very strong bottom end and good compression. I’d replace the cam and vernier timing gear personally.
Unless it’s a low mileage engine your best bet is to have a refresh of the engine so crank shells or even a regrind if scoring is present and possibly new ( gapped) piston rings and a quick hone of the bores at the very least.
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
If your looking for around 350 hp and a similar torque figure you might be better off simply rebuilding a 450 engine to a sports spec coupled with a decent ecu and maybe ported heads similar to a 500 and you should make around 320 bhp and just as importantly around 340 ft of torque.
People often mention bhp as the important figure but F1 now have huge torque figures and the cars accelerate faster than ever. RV engines don’t Rev, 6000 being a safe figure so turbo are all puffed out by 6000 anyway.
Go for torque over bhp and the car should feel very fast at any revs which is why I’d personally go for a rebuilt top line engine full of compression using a modern Ecu. In the real world there will be very little noticeable difference between such an engine and a mildly tuned turbo engine.
Having watched others turbo their TVR rarely is it a fit and forget and often ends up costing for an engine rebuild then all the cost of turbo install and an Ecu to manage it to be reliable.
Turbo ing a worn engine is a recipe for disaster imho.
Non of these options are a cheap way to gain more power.
Turbo cars can be hard to sell later down the line so be aware of that.
In fact one owner removed the turbo to actually get it sold
If your concerned with cost then just buy a good 500 which will feel just as fast as a turbo 400 and far more sellable.
Another thing to consider is a worn 450 will feel a lot slower than a rebuilt one as suggested above.The 450 in later Chims are almost stock RR with just a cam change so ripe for tuning. A rebuilt one should feel a lot stronger.
I’d try to test a few 450 and especially a rebuilt one with good cam and an aftermarket Ecu ( if you can find one) that will give you a good bench mark for power.
If you need more power after that then fill your boots and put a turbo on it.
A bit like Ecu changes, choose an installer or mapper first then discuss how to achieve your goal as travelling miles addressing setting up issues would be a pain, time consuming and expensive.
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 11th October 14:24
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 11th October 14:33
Belle427 said:
Eann Whalley passed away some time ago sadly and I don't think anyone carried the business on.
If it were me I'd look toward a nicely built 5.0 engine from V8D or take a look at the S/C route via S C power.
And this is clearly your best option in the present day. Dom can also build you a strong engine with turbo in mind so that’s always a good option. If it were me I'd look toward a nicely built 5.0 engine from V8D or take a look at the S/C route via S C power.
Clutch and big brakes, bigger wheels to allow said brakes, how tight is your diff,,,, how good is the gearbox. Extra power usually requires other mods to handle the power.
Slippery slope but if you do all these known and proven mods by feck you have a good car
Just a heads up that the turbo takes up the space originally occupied by the catalytic converter - and as far as I know, no one has worked out a simple way to add the cat back in to the exhaust.
As I understand it, most turbo conversions rely on a "friendly MOT man" to pass the MOT. This has made it a non-starter for me...
Dom
As I understand it, most turbo conversions rely on a "friendly MOT man" to pass the MOT. This has made it a non-starter for me...
Dom
This might be informative
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfokIQ_fMTx9m...
I didn’t think the cat had to be removed, but I could be entirely wrong
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfokIQ_fMTx9m...
I didn’t think the cat had to be removed, but I could be entirely wrong
phazed said:
I believe you are. If you look at about 10 minutes in on the first video, you can see the turbo in the normal place in the space of the cat.
Just to add, I literally skimmed for 10 seconds and haven’t seen the video.
Fair.Just to add, I literally skimmed for 10 seconds and haven’t seen the video.
I haven't watched it, just have seen the Tools n Track guys fiddling and fettling plenty on other bits.
A turbo is not on my list of things to do, so hadn't really considered what it requires.
Im not aware of any, there are a few threads running on installs, one good one below.
The you tube channel Tools n Track also started with an install and is well worth a watch as they are decent guys.
https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/185126/tvr-ch...
The you tube channel Tools n Track also started with an install and is well worth a watch as they are decent guys.
https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/185126/tvr-ch...
All good advice from classic chim. Here is my alternative version.
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
Classic Chim said:
Both the 400 and 450 are good to Turbo.
I upgraded my 4.0 Chim to a turbo in 2017 with a new, but 2nd hand Powers kit with intercooler. It runs with low 5psi boost and makes 330 hp and 350ftlb. Its running the standard 4.0 engine, distributor and the 14cux ECUClassic Chim said:
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
Classic Chim said:
Turboing a worn engine is a recipe for disaster imho.
My engine had done 130K when converted and 6 years later its still seems ok with around 1500 miles road driving per year. When it gives up I'm going to refresh it as standard and turn up the boost a few more psi. The advice from the professionals is to refresh your engine before turbo installationClassic Chim said:
If your looking for around 350 hp and a similar torque figure you might be better off simply rebuilding a 450 engine to a sports spec coupled with a decent ecu and maybe ported heads similar to a 500 and you should make around 320 bhp and just as importantly around 340 ft of torque.
This option to get you to 320hp will likely will cost you £8-10K for a professionally built engine and go fast parts. Myself and a friend did the turbo conversion it cost £1500 for the parts. The 14CUX was simply reprogramed by Jools at Kits and classics.Classic Chim said:
If your concerned with cost then just buy a good 500 which will feel just as fast as a turbo 400 and far more sellable
.
Agree its a buyers market, and you could buy a 500 or good 450 for a reasonable sum - I already had a good car I just wanted more power without spending a fortune. If I had to do it again I might think about SC to retain the roar of the V8 and cat but overall I'm happy with the conversion. .
I looked into the S/C kit some years ago, looked a very good option but would have cost around £6000 to do it properly.
When you consider what you might spend on upgrades such as heads, cam etc then it doesnt seem an unreasonable amount.
Back then a nicely built 5.0 wasnt far off that either.
When you consider what you might spend on upgrades such as heads, cam etc then it doesnt seem an unreasonable amount.
Back then a nicely built 5.0 wasnt far off that either.
ITVRI said:
All good advice from classic chim. Here is my alternative version.
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
Doms turbo kit is at least sensible in power output. Classic Chim said:
Both the 400 and 450 are good to Turbo.
I upgraded my 4.0 Chim to a turbo in 2017 with a new, but 2nd hand Powers kit with intercooler. It runs with low 5psi boost and makes 330 hp and 350ftlb. Its running the standard 4.0 engine, distributor and the 14cux ECUClassic Chim said:
It’s not about wether you can fit a turbo but more about if the engine can actually take the extra power and remain reliable.
Classic Chim said:
Turboing a worn engine is a recipe for disaster imho.
My engine had done 130K when converted and 6 years later its still seems ok with around 1500 miles road driving per year. When it gives up I'm going to refresh it as standard and turn up the boost a few more psi. The advice from the professionals is to refresh your engine before turbo installationClassic Chim said:
If your looking for around 350 hp and a similar torque figure you might be better off simply rebuilding a 450 engine to a sports spec coupled with a decent ecu and maybe ported heads similar to a 500 and you should make around 320 bhp and just as importantly around 340 ft of torque.
This option to get you to 320hp will likely will cost you £8-10K for a professionally built engine and go fast parts. Myself and a friend did the turbo conversion it cost £1500 for the parts. The 14CUX was simply reprogramed by Jools at Kits and classics.Classic Chim said:
If your concerned with cost then just buy a good 500 which will feel just as fast as a turbo 400 and far more sellable
.
Agree its a buyers market, and you could buy a 500 or good 450 for a reasonable sum - I already had a good car I just wanted more power without spending a fortune. If I had to do it again I might think about SC to retain the roar of the V8 and cat but overall I'm happy with the conversion. .
which sounds about right for your set up. Not many people are going to find one of those second hand very easily and I wager not many people are gifted enough as a tools man to put it all together for £1500 but it’s great to hear you did which proves it can be done.
139,000 miles. It’s clearly ran in and a very well maintained engine.
So the cost of second hand turbo/ intercooler/ mapping + £1500 installation costs or is that all in?
when engine plays up your going to refresh it which you’d be doing sooner or later anyway I suppose but that’s another considerable cost to add.
I’m quite pleased to hear someone’s proven it can be done and your engines holding up but that’s not always the case long term for many who utilise this extra power as often as they can
Have you taken it on a drag strip to see how fast it is with the extra power as your car has more hp but about the same torque as my 450 refreshed engine. 38 mm trumpets and standard 450 heads etc so not highly tuned.
Your car must feel pretty quick. Ive done about 15 runs and my engines still full of power and compression. I dare ya. 12.604 1/4 miles time to beat.
Based on your numbers we’d have some corking close races
The Diff needed replacing though
The idea is to gain more power so that’s why you do it and use that power or why bother.
A great guy on Facebook has a lovely Turbo Chim and tracks it very aggressively but his car is massively engineered to make that happen.
I happily accept, if you want sensible numbers like 330 bhp 350 torques what you have done is exactly the way to go but there’s a reason why people suggest re fresh your engine before installing a turbo.
The real problem is once you have 330 you want 400 and before you know it your looking to turn it up.
I think N/A or Turbo around 330 is about all the clutch and box/ Dif and even the chassis can take long term so good numbers unless you really like spending money.
I think i’d just rather have a new built 450/500 engine which is glorious and replace the 400 ( sell that ) and you’ll have the same power but should last 50,000 miles rather easily and most importantly maintain the sound of a roaring V8.
I’ve done 25,000 on Doms built engine. It’s still absolutely singing and I have really used the engine hard on many occasions. I change the oil every 3000 miles or less though. His engines are reliable and worth every penny long term.
You also mentioned the cost of engine/Ecu to get similar power via an expert so professionally installed.
How much to have a turbo installed by such a professional as most can’t do what you did let’s be honest although I'm damn happy you did and if the o/p is mechanically able not a bad idea at all if he can keep the cost similar to you.
Top job, I’d love to see it one day.
Do you have any pictures.
This thread needs pictures
Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 15th October 23:27
Realtively moderate aspirations stand a good chance of being ok.
So upping the power and torque to good 5 litre levels makes sense.
It's when I hear of people who TC or SC their 450s and tell us all about the 450-500+ bhp they achieve simply by fitting the kit that I worry.
By that level you are most likely into a whole heap more expense for the engine and transmission to survive any serious exploitation of the power produced.
So upping the power and torque to good 5 litre levels makes sense.
It's when I hear of people who TC or SC their 450s and tell us all about the 450-500+ bhp they achieve simply by fitting the kit that I worry.
By that level you are most likely into a whole heap more expense for the engine and transmission to survive any serious exploitation of the power produced.
The question is how much power do you want or how fast do you want to be then figure out the power goal.
I fitted Eanns kit to my 450 a few years ago and had Dale Bladen map the MS2 and ran Jenvey 440cc injectors.
I refreshed what was a standard bottom end and it served well with 470 bhp at around 10psi of boost.
After a couple years of drag racing and getting a little greedy on the boost, over 530bhp started to prove too much and the engine was complaining.
I think a goal of around 400 is quite achievable on a standard car.
My Chimaera has had gearbox rebuilds and upgrades, the diff has been rebuilt twice, i have Dave Mac driveshafts after breaking a few standard ones. I also have SC power engine mounts, light flywheel, John Eale's cerametallic clutch to name a few other mods.
I am building another engine for next year and would like to reach 600 bhp so may look at a twin plate clutch and a TKX gearbox.
I fitted Eanns kit to my 450 a few years ago and had Dale Bladen map the MS2 and ran Jenvey 440cc injectors.
I refreshed what was a standard bottom end and it served well with 470 bhp at around 10psi of boost.
After a couple years of drag racing and getting a little greedy on the boost, over 530bhp started to prove too much and the engine was complaining.
I think a goal of around 400 is quite achievable on a standard car.
My Chimaera has had gearbox rebuilds and upgrades, the diff has been rebuilt twice, i have Dave Mac driveshafts after breaking a few standard ones. I also have SC power engine mounts, light flywheel, John Eale's cerametallic clutch to name a few other mods.
I am building another engine for next year and would like to reach 600 bhp so may look at a twin plate clutch and a TKX gearbox.
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