Turbo upgrade on RV8
Discussion
Gray_101 said:
Spoke to them last week, looks a cracker.
I've been looking into this very closely.
I quickly came to the conclusion that it's more or less a non-starter if you are still controlling fuel delivery with the Lucas 14CUX and the ignition timing with a distributor.
What you really need is an ECU that supports boost control and the ability to build a 3D ignition map that can also instantly retard the timing on boost.
An ECU using a manifold absolute pressure sensor & also offers a 3D pulse width modulated output to drive something like an Eaton N75J boost control solenoid is ideal for open loop boost control.
Here's a bit on how a boost control solenoid works, I wouldn't want to fit a turbo without one and you will need a modern ECU to control it:
http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87750
An engine management system that offers all these features is definitely the secret to making a proper job of a turbo conversion.
If you want to go forced induction and still have the 14CUX & dizzy I would say forget it, fortunately there are engine management systems out there that will make all your turbo dreams come true.
I recommend looking at the Canems system
http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/fully...
I quickly came to the conclusion that it's more or less a non-starter if you are still controlling fuel delivery with the Lucas 14CUX and the ignition timing with a distributor.
What you really need is an ECU that supports boost control and the ability to build a 3D ignition map that can also instantly retard the timing on boost.
An ECU using a manifold absolute pressure sensor & also offers a 3D pulse width modulated output to drive something like an Eaton N75J boost control solenoid is ideal for open loop boost control.
Here's a bit on how a boost control solenoid works, I wouldn't want to fit a turbo without one and you will need a modern ECU to control it:
http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87750
An engine management system that offers all these features is definitely the secret to making a proper job of a turbo conversion.
If you want to go forced induction and still have the 14CUX & dizzy I would say forget it, fortunately there are engine management systems out there that will make all your turbo dreams come true.
I recommend looking at the Canems system
http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/fully...
clive f said:
isnt that why Power offer the option of the new MBE ecu as part of the package?
Absolutely Clive, but you're not just restricted to TVR Power if you want a Turbo on an RV8.Eann Whalley has an excellent kit that's also a very cost effective solution.
Actually from what I understand Eann is running 9psi of boost & is still on the 14CUX (adapted) & a distributor?, by all accounts the results are still an outstanding & usable 400 plus horse power from a standard Chim 450.
Which is a significant achievement in my book, it also hints at the true potential of the turbo kit if control systems are updated.
Full three dimensional control of the ignition advance & retard characteristics and an opportunity to precisely control boost using a PWM boost control valve has to be the answer to applying forced induction to any internal combustion engine.
As good as their offering is you don't necessarily need TVR Power to make all this happen, Eann Whalley's kit and a Canems or Emerald ECU is another very viable option.
Like this it also has the potential to offer a cost effective alternative to the SC-Power supercharger kit.
I always preferred superchargers over turbos, but the truth is turbos have come on a long way in the last few years.
If you align a well chosen modern turbo to the application, then apply proper control systems to keep boost & ignition timing in check, your engine driven supercharger starts to look like yesterday's technology.
The energy thrown away in your exhaust gasses is free after all, why not put it to good use?
spitfire4v8 said:
Crikey it makes you wonder how all those turbo cars on carbs even manage to start up.
Come on now that's not what I'm saying at all, and you know it 
I'm talking about an opportunity to give yourself the benefit of proven but improved technology to get the job done properly, given who you are I'm sure you totally get that
I had a lot of fun with a Renault 5 GT Turbo years ago, that was blowing through a Sloex carb so there's no question it works.
But I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that things have moved on immeasurably since positive pressure carbs and distributors with vacuum retard on boost.
And the results are worlds apart too.
http://www.track-days.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 5th September 12:27
yep the turbo option is nice an easy, the only thing that puts me off turbos is the power delivery, more of a problem on a lightweight rear wheel drive car like the Tvr. In addition to this is also under bonnet temps, its bad enough as it is, so invest in some heat jackets for the turbo.
Hoofa said:
yep the turbo option is nice an easy, the only thing that puts me off turbos is the power delivery, more of a problem on a lightweight rear wheel drive car like the Tvr. In addition to this is also under bonnet temps, its bad enough as it is, so invest in some heat jackets for the turbo.
I would speculate that a well chosen low pressure turbo blowing evenly over 8 low compression combustion chambers in an engine that naturally produces heaps of pre-boost torque is a very different thing to blowing a higher compression 4 banger that's designed to make it's power further up the rev range.
You could even argue that the right low pressure single turbo & a Rover V8 would make perfect bedfellows.
It gets even better when you see the TVR installation, the physical space to fit a single turbo is there already, so much so it looks like Ravenscroft had it in mind from the outset.
If you get the transition from vacuum to forced induction nice and smooth then carefully wind the boost up in a progressive fashion I really don't see lag being a problem at all.
It's just a lazy old low compression V8 after all!
Surely it's all about choosing the right turbo to suit the Rover V8 and controlling the boost to work with the engine's natural characteristics.
I would gladly dump some boost in exchange for a really nice linear power delivery, the secret is all down to control and not getting too greedy
Heat is another issue altogether, or more accurately it's two issues.
It's relatively straightforward to keep air temperatures in check with an intercooler, controlling radiant heat could be more challenging but it's certainly not beyond the wit of man to resolve this too.
However, like all these things, it's way too easy to make it sound super simple typing from my desk on an internet forum.
THE DEVIL IS MOST CERTAINLY IN THE DETAIL
The good news is it's already been done by two different independent companies , as such it's totally proven to work
Eann's is the car that will be at the BNG... Its running the 14 CUX with his torque flow system but he says the original could be mapped to cope with it.. and he's also running a dizzy!.. it drops in the space where the Power one goes but connects to the existing manifoulds so it's easy to put in / out... and makes for a manik drive.... That said, I like the power delivery of the turbo over the blower.. for some strange reason having been in both, the turbo was a lot more progressive where as the blower I thought give you more of a kick?....
All I can say is have a look at what Eanns done... for £2.2K or what ever its going for, there is nothing like it for BHP per £
All I can say is have a look at what Eanns done... for £2.2K or what ever its going for, there is nothing like it for BHP per £
neal1980 said:
Hoofa said:
the only thing that puts me off turbos is the power delivery, more of a problem on a lightweight rear wheel drive car like the Tvr.
Its quite good fun mine is 550lbft and thats a nice kick...Your constantly saying "this thing is trying to kill me!"..... Santa pod next year ?. I haven't worked out how to do the laughing smiley on my fone yet .. but as I'm on my laptop m=now I can put the 
that should have been in my original post
There are very good reasons for going standalone management when forcing the air in, they're the same very good arguments for going standalone management as on a normally aspirated engine too : throttle response, maximising the bhp at every point in the rev range, 3rd party mapping availability etc etc so yes in fact I fully agree with the extra benefits it brings to the turbo party too
that should have been in my original post There are very good reasons for going standalone management when forcing the air in, they're the same very good arguments for going standalone management as on a normally aspirated engine too : throttle response, maximising the bhp at every point in the rev range, 3rd party mapping availability etc etc so yes in fact I fully agree with the extra benefits it brings to the turbo party too
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