Outrigger question(s)

[Gary11]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

As a guide, I paid about £3,600 total for a complete rebuild, outriggers replaced, chassis stripped, blasted, zinc primered and powder coated. That price also included various other stuff: recored rad, valley gasket, fuel pump, fuel lines, and numerous other things. This was a huge amount more work than would be required just to replace the outriggers. It was done by Willow in Newark: highly recommended, if a little far away. Give Nick a call for advice; he's a very helpful fellow and you may end up deciding to take it up there anyway.

The price you've been quoted is far too much for just lifting the body and replacing the outriggers.

Edited to add: I forgot, the price I quoted also included Nick's modifications to the chassis to strengthen the seat mountings, so they're now bolted to metalwork rather than just bolted to the GRP. He did an enormous amount of work in that price!

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Saturday 29th September 08:11

My one gripe which actualy is unforgiveable IMO is that fact, how dangerous that the 4 small bolts are merely bolted through the GRP jusy lazy engineering and downright lethal in an accident they will probably pull straight through the body at 10mph inpact you can actualy feel them moving during hard road use.

Edited by Gary11 on Sunday 30th September 12:24

[carsy]

I think the extra pieces on the chassis for the seats to bolt on to are a good idea to firm the seats up but i dont see how it will help you in a crash. Its your seat belts that are going to hold you in, its the belts anchor points which need to be in good order. The only thing in a crash which is going to pull the seat bolts through the floor are the weight of the seats themselves and i cant see them doing that.

[Bassfiend]

I've just had my drivers side outrigger replaced for £650 + VAT at a place that I am very happy with in Warminster ... I should have photos coming but have absolutely no hesitation in recomending them and I have absolutely no doubt in the quality of their work.

If you can get there, give Lloyd Specialist Developments a shout - www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.com

Phil

[Gary11]

carsy said:

I think the extra pieces on the chassis for the seats to bolt on to are a good idea to firm the seats up but i dont see how it will help you in a crash. Its your seat belts that are going to hold you in, its the belts anchor points which need to be in good order. The only thing in a crash which is going to pull the seat bolts through the floor are the weight of the seats themselves and i cant see them doing that.

Oh OK if thats what you think.
Its the wiplash action and decelarating forces as per usual in a crash,not just the seatbelt anchors and forward forces,though again in true TVR fashion these are usualy rusty,seat anchor wise they are just ridiculously weak its actualy the front bolts that sometime pull through the fibreglass floor through one of mine is weak just from daily driving there is NO metal fixing ,imagine the stress fractures around the plastic after 15yrs those big penny washers just arent enough it actualy is laughable....and pointlessly undefendable.

BTW I do like them and own one,IMO just a few simple things improve them a lot and by default the factory shouldve thought of it (them) erm.. and a few other potential life endangering simple design faults.

[carsy]

Gary11 said:

Oh OK if thats what you think.
Its the wiplash action and decelarating forces as per usual in a crash,not just the seatbelt anchors and forward forces,though again in true TVR fashion these are usualy rusty,seat anchor wise they are just ridiculously weak its actualy the front bolts that sometime pull through the fibreglass floor through one of mine is weak just from daily driving there is NO metal fixing ,imagine the stress fractures around the plastic after 15yrs those big penny washers just arent enough it actualy is laughable....and pointlessly undefendable.

BTW I do like them and own one,IMO just a few simple things improve them a lot and by default the factory shouldve thought of it (them) erm.. and a few other potential life endangering simple design faults.

Yes i see your point re a rear end shunt, i was thinking of forward motion.

[Gary11]

carsy said:

Yes i see your point re a rear end shunt, i was thinking of forward motion.

Thanks for that actualy checked mine again after reading this the front r/h mount is so weak (superior 500 power I guess) the seat actualy moves under hard aceleration, on and off the throttle/brakes actualy makes the seat rock noticably!

[potato muncher]

Give Mike Vernon a call on 07717878292.
He is based at the old factory and did my outriggers.
Cannot say how much as it was mates rates but he will come in at a lot less than some of the prices quoted.

[Wedg1e]

Gary11 said:

Oh OK if thats what you think.
Its the wiplash action and decelarating forces as per usual in a crash,not just the seatbelt anchors and forward forces,though again in true TVR fashion these are usualy rusty,seat anchor wise they are just ridiculously weak its actualy the front bolts that sometime pull through the fibreglass floor through one of mine is weak just from daily driving there is NO metal fixing ,imagine the stress fractures around the plastic after 15yrs those big penny washers just arent enough it actualy is laughable....and pointlessly undefendable.

BTW I do like them and own one,IMO just a few simple things improve them a lot and by default the factory shouldve thought of it (them) erm.. and a few other potential life endangering simple design faults.

In 16 years of owning TVRs I've only ever heard of one person dieing in a crash in one. I suspect the seat bolts would not have played a very large part. TVR models prior to the Chimaera had their seats mounted in the same way and all passed the necessary type-approval testing - in fact the Wedge cars exceeded what was required several years prior to new 'crashability' legislation (and have better side-impact protection than Griffs and Chims as well).
Incidentally my car is 25 years old and has no stress cracks around the seat mountings that weren't made by the drill breaking through...

[Gary11]

Wedg1e said:

In 16 years of owning TVRs I've only ever heard of one person dieing in a crash in one. I suspect the seat bolts would not have played a very large part. TVR models prior to the Chimaera had their seats mounted in the same way and all passed the necessary type-approval testing - in fact the Wedge cars exceeded what was required several years prior to new 'crashability' legislation (and have better side-impact protection than Griffs and Chims as well).
Incidentally my car is 25 years old and has no stress cracks around the seat mountings that weren't made by the drill breaking through...

Ok my friend if you think thats an acceptable method of fixing power to your elbow...one of mine was so bady fitted the bold exited throurgh the floor at an angle so the penny washer (main fixing component of TVRS)wouldnt fit Ive had and seen them pull through the body.....many people have been killed or badly injured in TVRS they are NOT safe and would fail all current crash tests and criteria I think of them as marginaly better than a motor bike ....still like them though.

[FlipFlopGriff]

We had the outriggers done at Sportmotive and they've done a great job. Had the metal seat supports added as part of the job, to provide a piece of mind. I agree its a silly idea to bolt direct through the GRP for the few pennies saved, but as with every job you can upgrade as you go.
Was £1,500 + VAT from memory for both sides fitted. The Wedge chassis is a bit more robust than the Chim/Griff chassis.
FFG

[Bassfiend]

Bassfiend said:

I've just had my drivers side outrigger replaced for £650 + VAT at a place that I am very happy with in Warminster ... I should have photos coming but have absolutely no hesitation in recomending them and I have absolutely no doubt in the quality of their work.

If you can get there, give Lloyd Specialist Developments a shout - www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.com

Phil

Went over to pick mine up tonight (unfortunately not ready - still doing leaking exhaust manifold gaskets as one of the mating faces on the manifold isn't flat) but while I was there I had a look at both my old outrigger that they'd taken off and the new one they'd constructed. The old one was definitely shot and I'm glad I've had it replaced. It's been constructed in 3mm wall thickness seamless tube (as used in roll cages - I believe the standard stuff is 1.5mm wall thickness) and is bloody lovely ...

They've also pointed out that the seat mounting positions aren't that solid and have recommended that they need strengthening so I guess I'll be fibreglassing in some metal plates to beef that up a bit.

And they also showed me my engine mounts are torn to strags...

Phil

[Gary11]

Wedg1e said:

In 16 years of owning TVRs I've only ever heard of one person dieing in a crash in one. I suspect the seat bolts would not have played a very large part. TVR models prior to the Chimaera had their seats mounted in the same way and all passed the necessary type-approval testing - in fact the Wedge cars exceeded what was required several years prior to new 'crashability' legislation (and have better side-impact protection than Griffs and Chims as well).
Incidentally my car is 25 years old and has no stress cracks around the seat mountings that weren't made by the drill breaking through...

"They've also pointed out that the seat mounting positions aren't that solid and have recommended that they need strengthening so I guess I'll be fibreglassing in some metal plates to beef that up a bit."

[Whiplash]

Spoken over email with Richard at southways automotive and will be booking the old girl in for a full chassis referb/repair in early 2013.

They do some fantastic work and their FaceBook page is worth a visit.

Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction.

Edited by Whiplash on Tuesday 2nd October 20:26

[TVRmuppet]

Its just one of the many reasons a TVR would not pass an IVA test. No proper seat anchorages.

Edited by TVRmuppet on Tuesday 2nd October 19:46

[Wedg1e]

Gary11 said:

"They've also pointed out that the seat mounting positions aren't that solid and have recommended that they need strengthening so I guess I'll be fibreglassing in some metal plates to beef that up a bit."

Why not say 'ner ner ner' while you're busy quoting other people? One man's recommendation is not law.

I'd like to see some reports of the 'many people' who've been killed or injured in TVRs. I've been driving them for 16 years, have been on PH (which started as a TVR forum) for 10 and the number of fatalities I can think of comes to... er... not many. And in such a small community we WOULD get to hear of them.

The very fact that TVR continued to use the same method of seat mounting for so many years suggests that they did not think it an issue - and let's not forget that the later models had to comply with even stricter impact legislation than the earlier cars.

I'd also like someone to explain the dynamics that rip a seat out while you're sat in it and held by a locked seatbelt. Perhaps if the car did a double back-flip with a tuck in the half-pike position and you were a fat bd it may happen but I rather think there are more pressing things to worry about if the car is coming apart at the seams that badly. By all means add some strengthening if you wish but there are a million ways to die when stopping from high speed; if you're that worried, don't get in a car.

And TVR generally used 2m wall tubing, not 1.5mm, Bassfiend.

[Gary11]

Wedg1e said:

Why not say 'ner ner ner' while you're busy quoting other people? One man's recommendation is not law.

I'd like to see some reports of the 'many people' who've been killed or injured in TVRs. I've been driving them for 16 years, have been on PH (which started as a TVR forum) for 10 and the number of fatalities I can think of comes to... er... not many. And in such a small community we WOULD get to hear of them.

The very fact that TVR continued to use the same method of seat mounting for so many years suggests that they did not think it an issue - and let's not forget that the later models had to comply with even stricter impact legislation than the earlier cars.

I'd also like someone to explain the dynamics that rip a seat out while you're sat in it and held by a locked seatbelt. Perhaps if the car did a double back-flip with a tuck in the half-pike position and you were a fat bd it may happen but I rather think there are more pressing things to worry about if the car is coming apart at the seams that badly. By all means add some strengthening if you wish but there are a million ways to die when stopping from high speed; if you're that worried, don't get in a car.

And TVR generally used 2m wall tubing, not 1.5mm, Bassfiend.

Its ok really dont worry about it chap...its just a crap idea thats easily fixed.

[Bassfiend]

Gary11 said:

Wedg1e said:

In 16 years of owning TVRs I've only ever heard of one person dieing in a crash in one. I suspect the seat bolts would not have played a very large part. TVR models prior to the Chimaera had their seats mounted in the same way and all passed the necessary type-approval testing - in fact the Wedge cars exceeded what was required several years prior to new 'crashability' legislation (and have better side-impact protection than Griffs and Chims as well).
Incidentally my car is 25 years old and has no stress cracks around the seat mountings that weren't made by the drill breaking through...

"They've also pointed out that the seat mounting positions aren't that solid and have recommended that they need strengthening so I guess I'll be fibreglassing in some metal plates to beef that up a bit."

Mine are apparently cracked and split around the bolt holes - might have something to do with my 136kgs!

Phil

[Gary11]

Bassfiend said:

Mine are apparently cracked and split around the bolt holes - might have something to do with my 136kgs!

Phil

when you think under hard acceleration or braking you "may" push or pull 2g thats a lot of push and pull on a tiny 12mm bolt in plastic oh yes dont forget the penny washers on the studs that exit a flat bit of grp!!
2 of mine are on the piss and exit in such a place on the mould you cant even get a washer on!!

[Kitchski]

TVRmuppet said:

Its just one of the many reasons a TVR would not pass an IVA test. No proper seat anchorages.

Edited by TVRmuppet on Tuesday 2nd October 19:46

Quite true....you'd have a fair bit of work on to get a Chimaera through an IVA today. That said, you could say the same thing about most kit cars from the mid-90's, and sadly some of the ones currently on offer.

Regarding the seats, we (Southways) have developed some retro-fit seat anchoring plates which we'll be fitting to the blue Chimaera we're refurbing, and once we're happy with them we'll be putting them on the market.
We believe the design of the seat mounting is better on the Chimaera/Griffith than the earlier Wedges and S models, because the GRP is formed to be more rigid around the front mounts. However, both of the rear mounts are bolted through a relatively flat area which isn't all that strong. Only takes someone to overtighten the seats with inadequate washers a couple of times and the area is damaged.

[Gary11]

Kitchski said:

Quite true....you'd have a fair bit of work on to get a Chimaera through an IVA today. That said, you could say the same thing about most kit cars from the mid-90's, and sadly some of the ones currently on offer.

Regarding the seats, we (Southways) have developed some retro-fit seat anchoring plates which we'll be fitting to the blue Chimaera we're refurbing, and once we're happy with them we'll be putting them on the market.
We believe the design of the seat mounting is better on the Chimaera/Griffith than the earlier Wedges and S models, because the GRP is formed to be more rigid around the front mounts. However, both of the rear mounts are bolted through a relatively flat area which isn't all that strong. Only takes someone to overtighten the seats with inadequate washers a couple of times and the area is damaged.

Could you please PM me once your happy with the modification please.
Thank you