Discussion
Full leather was a rare & rather expensive option, while full leather sounds like a nice luxury option it actually has some downsides in the long term.
Most cars left the factory in the standard "Half Hide" specification, which is quite a misleading title invented by the marketing men (probably just one man, it's a TVR)
What "Half Hide" gave you was everything that appears to be leather covered in Leathercloth, which is just a trade name for vinyl.
The only part of the trim that's genuine leather are the seat faces, hardly "Half Hide" is it?
A more accurate title would have been "90% Vinyl", but I doubt that would have appealed in the same way "Half Hide" did.
The truth is Leathercloth is actually way more durable than real leather, so it's a far better material to use in areas subject to high abrasion or direct sunlight.
I for one favour the "90% Vinyl" interiors for their durability, if the car has ever leaked, mould will take hold & destroy leather far more readily than it would with Leathercloth.
A genuine leather dash top sat under the glass screen in the baking sun for years is going to shrink and crack eventually, where Leathercloth will tough it out indefinitely.
The issue with Leathercloth is it doesn't breath, that's why you want genuine leather seat backs as it avoids the sweaty back syndrome.
It's also far harder to dye Leathercloth than genuine leather as the dye tends to sit on top of it rather than being absorbed.
But according to the Furniture Clinic website their range of special vinyl dying products solve this problem, I've not tried them yet but Swanny has and seems to have achieved great results.
Most cars left the factory in the standard "Half Hide" specification, which is quite a misleading title invented by the marketing men (probably just one man, it's a TVR)
What "Half Hide" gave you was everything that appears to be leather covered in Leathercloth, which is just a trade name for vinyl.
The only part of the trim that's genuine leather are the seat faces, hardly "Half Hide" is it?
A more accurate title would have been "90% Vinyl", but I doubt that would have appealed in the same way "Half Hide" did.
The truth is Leathercloth is actually way more durable than real leather, so it's a far better material to use in areas subject to high abrasion or direct sunlight.
I for one favour the "90% Vinyl" interiors for their durability, if the car has ever leaked, mould will take hold & destroy leather far more readily than it would with Leathercloth.
A genuine leather dash top sat under the glass screen in the baking sun for years is going to shrink and crack eventually, where Leathercloth will tough it out indefinitely.
The issue with Leathercloth is it doesn't breath, that's why you want genuine leather seat backs as it avoids the sweaty back syndrome.
It's also far harder to dye Leathercloth than genuine leather as the dye tends to sit on top of it rather than being absorbed.
But according to the Furniture Clinic website their range of special vinyl dying products solve this problem, I've not tried them yet but Swanny has and seems to have achieved great results.
EggsBenedict said:
CofD, I tried those seats in my chim - didn't fit - before you go nuts (even more) then check that. I ended up putting mine back on the 'bay.
Hi EggsB,
All the measurements seemed to check out fine for me?
Sure the rails need swapping over and the protruding seat belt brackets need cutting off, but the width of the backrest & squabs seem to check out fine?
The worst I can see is I'll lose about 5-10mm of leg room due to the extra depth.
Why exactly wouldn't they fit?
Did you cut that seatbelt bracket off each seat? It's definitely got to go
Have I missed something
EggsBenedict said:
The seat lever didn't fit in even so. I didn't want to do too much choppage, and I couldn't get them to fit nicely and give a good range of fore/aft adjustment. If you're OK, then cool - I rather liked the seats, but I couldn't make it work for me. I'd just want to make sure that you fit them in and they work OK for you before doing all the restoration work!
Thanks EggsB, I'll double check it all again at the weekend.I'm confident cutting those seatbelt brackets off will give me the clearance I need.
Although I have never needed to adjust my current seat positions (both remain in the fully back position), it would be a shame if I'm unable to get the XJS ones moving fore & aft on the rails.
I'll do a final test fit before I progress but I'd be very surprised they fit perfectly in a TVR S, yet prove an impossible fit in a Chimaera.
TBH I never anticipated a straight drop in, there was always going to be a bit adjustment of the rails as a minimum.
I think it'll be worth it in the end as they do look great in an S, lets see what they look like in the more spacious Chimaera.
Funny to think a lot of S boys that haven't taken the XJS rout fit Chimaera seats as both types fit in there a treat.
Cheers, Dave.
Bassfiend said:
Mine have arrived at home today - they turned up at work last week attached to a pallet but I finally got them home this afternoon.
They're electrically adjusted for rake and so don't have any sort of handle on the side which might in that case actually be a bonus from the sound of it ... and one of the guys at work has volunteered to make a control box for me for the electric adjustment.
(Interestingly - someone else at work I mentioned this too started off down the route of building a full microcontroller type setup for the eats including position sensors and memory functionality ... sometimes I think they maybe get a bit too techie! )
Phil
Nice one Phil, my seats slide the old school way & I'm ditching the electro wizardry lumber support pumps in favour of enema hand pumps They're electrically adjusted for rake and so don't have any sort of handle on the side which might in that case actually be a bonus from the sound of it ... and one of the guys at work has volunteered to make a control box for me for the electric adjustment.
(Interestingly - someone else at work I mentioned this too started off down the route of building a full microcontroller type setup for the eats including position sensors and memory functionality ... sometimes I think they maybe get a bit too techie!
)Phil
The heating elements will stay as I have this option already, but I must admit I've never used it.
The levers EggsB refers too on the manual seats are for rake adjustment, again it's of very little consequence to me if I delete these as my current seats hardly ever move from their chosen positions.
Anyway, the manual levers are on a square, so if I do choose to keep them they can easily be repossession to vertical thus clearing the sill area of the floor (I know it doesn't have sills but you get what I mean).
As long as I can flip the seats forward to gain access to the cubby holes they'll be fine for me, I very much doubt they will ever move from their set position.
But I'm quietly confident I can indeed get them moving for & aft on the rails, at worse the adjustment may need to be done before you set out with the door open so the door armrest doest interfere with the outer bolsters.
TBH sliding the seats fore and aft will only become useful in the unlikely event I ever want to loan my car to a dwarf.
I'm certainly not losing any sleep over fitting issues with these seats just yet
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 24th October 19:16
Barkychoc said:
The S above with Jag seats was mine - they are tight for sure but do fit. I had to remove the inboard seat pivot plastic cover, remove the jag seatbelt stalk (which is no use attached to the seat) and turned the bottom 'sill'seatbelt mount the wrong way round so it did not stick out from the sill.
I also 'adjusted' the TVR seat belt stalk with a 2 pound adjuster to make them sit flush against the centre console.
No question Chim seats are easier to fit.
Cheers Chris, your XJS seats look fantastic and had been my inspiration for trying them in the Chim.I also 'adjusted' the TVR seat belt stalk with a 2 pound adjuster to make them sit flush against the centre console.
No question Chim seats are easier to fit.
Some of the tweaks I had already worked out, but not all, so your tips will prove very helpful.
I'm determined to make them fit & I particularly liked the bit about the 2 pound adjuster
Many thanks, Dave.
biper said:
Any update on the fitting of the seats. Do they fit?
Here's a copy of the email response I sent you Barrie, I've just re-sent it.Hi Barrie,
I've not tried them yet but I'm confident they will fit as all the fundamental measurements check out Ok.
But some fine tuning will certainly be required.
There are some brackets that need trimming off, the inner pivot cover will need to be left off & the seatbelt anchor is attached to the seat on the XJS so that must go too.
It's also likely the rails will need adjusting or swapping over from my original TVR seats.
So please don't just assume they'll drop straight in, but like I say I see no significant reason why they shouldn't fit after a few tweaks here and there.
I'll update the post as soon as I done the trial fit.
Best regard, Dave.
Quietlybonkers said:
Thanks for your phone help today.....we think we (Alex and me) have got to the bottom of what has been chewed by mice.
Cheers mate, I hear the Gas Monkey resolved a lot of it for you Edited by Quietlybonkers on Sunday 11th November 17:57
Nasty vermin can destroy a car in no time, you did well to catch it when you did.
Take precautions to make sure the dont return
Bringing this back to the original topic to get the XJS seats to fit in a Chimaera I can confirm the following:
1. Both pivot covers must be removed
2. The chrome rake adjusting lever must be removed
3. The square spline that the chrome rake adjusting lever attaches to must be shortened
4. A thinner rake adjusting lever needs to be fabricated from thin flat plate and shaped acordingly
5. The seatbelt anchor on the outer sill must be adjusted with a persuader
6. The XJS seat belt bracket must be removed (this is attached to one of the rails both of which should be removed)
7. As above, both XJS rails must be removed & replaced with the TVR rails
8. A simple "H" frame must be fabricated to attach the TVR rails to the XJS seat base
9. The XJS passenger seat must be fitted to the TVR drivers side & the XJS drivers seat must be fitted to the TVR passenger side, this is to accommodate the "full forward" catches that now face inwards not outwards
10. The "full forward" catch nob on each XJS seat must be removed & replaced with a smaller thumb nut
NOTES:
In summary it looks like a nice little mod that improves comfort, support while cornering enthusiastically and personally I think they look very much in keeping with the classic style of the Chimaera.
On with the restoration & colour change using my Furniture Clinic kit.
1. Both pivot covers must be removed
2. The chrome rake adjusting lever must be removed
3. The square spline that the chrome rake adjusting lever attaches to must be shortened
4. A thinner rake adjusting lever needs to be fabricated from thin flat plate and shaped acordingly
5. The seatbelt anchor on the outer sill must be adjusted with a persuader
6. The XJS seat belt bracket must be removed (this is attached to one of the rails both of which should be removed)
7. As above, both XJS rails must be removed & replaced with the TVR rails
8. A simple "H" frame must be fabricated to attach the TVR rails to the XJS seat base
9. The XJS passenger seat must be fitted to the TVR drivers side & the XJS drivers seat must be fitted to the TVR passenger side, this is to accommodate the "full forward" catches that now face inwards not outwards
10. The "full forward" catch nob on each XJS seat must be removed & replaced with a smaller thumb nut
NOTES:
- I will be making my "H" frame adjustable so the XJS seat can be placed in the most advantageous position in relation to the transferred TVR seat rails.
- The XJS seats sit slightly higher than the TVR originals, I found this gave a more commanding view of the road and a generally more confidence inspiring driving position
- There are no headroom issues, I am 6'1" tall, with the roof on I still had 3" of space between the top of my head & the roof panel
- The roof folds as normal, no restrictions in roof operation at all, the XJS head rests do run much closer to the roof stays than the originals but do not foul them in any way
- The additional lateral support offered by the better bolsters on the XJS seats is a huge improvement over the original TVR flat backed seats
- With the XJS seats you lose about 10mm of leg room, in practice this seemed not to be an issue and plenty of pedal adjustment remains to compensate for the very small loss of leg room
- The XJS seats are sublimely comfortable compared with the TVR originals
- The XJS seats will still slide fore & aft althouth this will need to be done with the door open (so before you set out)
- The fit of the XJS seats can generally be described as "Tight as a Nuns Chuff", but with a bit of ingenuity the most definitely do fit
In summary it looks like a nice little mod that improves comfort, support while cornering enthusiastically and personally I think they look very much in keeping with the classic style of the Chimaera.
On with the restoration & colour change using my Furniture Clinic kit.
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Monday 12th November 08:36
phazed said:
My gripe is that you slide all over the place, (for a sports car) and that when you pull up the headrest to get it remotely in the correct position, the seat top finishes half way up my back, (designed for porgs?).
This is what drove me to look at different seats.As already mentioned the biggest issue limiting your options is the width, particularly at the bottom of the backrest.
A seat that's narrow enough to fit, yet gives better lateral support is tricky to find.
If that seat also needs to be comfortable in a grand tourer kind of way and look right in a Chimaera then you're really facing a challenge.
That right classic look is where the XJS seats score for me, it's the separate headrest that does it, anything with the more modern integral headrest design just doesn't look right in a Chim to me.
If your going to track the car then Elise seats are probably your best bet, but they're not really a long distance touring seat.
I've seen Chims with seats from a Honda S2000, Mazda MX5, TVR Tuscan, ect ect, and to me they all look too modern.
That's why I took a gamble on the XJS seats, I'd seen them fitted to the TVR "S" & really liked the factory look, so I figured if they fit in the "S" there's a good chance they could be encouraged into the Chimaera.
A decent seat can make a huge difference to the enjoyment of a car, after sitting in my Chimaera for the first time with the XJS seat in place I was left in no doubt they are well worth all the effort.
I can't wait to chuck the car through a few bends, the XJS seats should hold me nicely in place during spirited driving, where the TVR originals would have me sliding all over the place.
The original TVR seats just don't give you that "connected with the car" feeling you should get from a sports car, IMO a more supportive seat is just what this car needs.
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Monday 12th November 19:05
You'll be waiting a little while Phil mate
I need to fab up the simple rail frames first, then I can start the re-colour & renovation work with the Furniture Clinic kit.
In the mean time here are some more snaps from the trial fit yesterday.
A smaller lever knob required.
Marking the lever for trimming.
The offending XJS seatbelt bracket that needs to go, it's riveted on.
The XJS seatbelt bracket removed, turns out I didnt need to remove it as the original TVR rail will be used.
A snug fit on the outer bolster.
Door closed, no problems.
Seatbelt anchor before adjustment.
After persuasion.
The rake pivot square.
A session with Hakisawrus.
The remaining square.
Setting the rake with a 10mm spanner, a thin lever will be made up so this can be done when the seats are fitted.
The squab fits in nicely, it's not the problem.
The bottom of the back rest, look closely at the pivots, this is the tightest & most problematic area of the whole installation.
The roof stay misses the headrest, just.
Head room and scary eyes
Head room, another angle.
She's in, snug as a bug in a rug
I need to fab up the simple rail frames first, then I can start the re-colour & renovation work with the Furniture Clinic kit.
In the mean time here are some more snaps from the trial fit yesterday.
A smaller lever knob required.
Marking the lever for trimming.
The offending XJS seatbelt bracket that needs to go, it's riveted on.
The XJS seatbelt bracket removed, turns out I didnt need to remove it as the original TVR rail will be used.
A snug fit on the outer bolster.
Door closed, no problems.
Seatbelt anchor before adjustment.
After persuasion.
The rake pivot square.
A session with Hakisawrus.
The remaining square.
Setting the rake with a 10mm spanner, a thin lever will be made up so this can be done when the seats are fitted.
The squab fits in nicely, it's not the problem.
The bottom of the back rest, look closely at the pivots, this is the tightest & most problematic area of the whole installation.
The roof stay misses the headrest, just.
Head room and scary eyes
Head room, another angle.
She's in, snug as a bug in a rug
This may help anyone thinking of putting XJS seats in a Chimaera:
As we can see from the inconsistent measurements TVR is delivering their usual levels of high quality engineering here. I'd recommend just using the image as a guide and measuring your own seats as they are probably are all fractionally different from car to car.
The Jag XJS mounting points on the other hand are spot on to the millimeter, so will almost certainly be universally the same.
And here we have the basic principle of the converter frame, the frame being represented in blue. I have purposely left the measurements off as I strongly advise taking the true measurements from your own TVR seats.
IMPORTANT! The above basic rendering shows the TVR converter frame as symmetrical in relation to the XJS mounting points, this is actually not the case as for the XJS seats to fit correctly in a Chimaera the converter frame needs to be off set slightly.
As we can see from the inconsistent measurements TVR is delivering their usual levels of high quality engineering here. I'd recommend just using the image as a guide and measuring your own seats as they are probably are all fractionally different from car to car.
The Jag XJS mounting points on the other hand are spot on to the millimeter, so will almost certainly be universally the same.
And here we have the basic principle of the converter frame, the frame being represented in blue. I have purposely left the measurements off as I strongly advise taking the true measurements from your own TVR seats.
IMPORTANT! The above basic rendering shows the TVR converter frame as symmetrical in relation to the XJS mounting points, this is actually not the case as for the XJS seats to fit correctly in a Chimaera the converter frame needs to be off set slightly.
More progress:
The eagle eyed amongst you will notice these XJS runners are electric, mine are manual but the basic principles & measurements of the adapter frames will be the same.
The biggest challenge is getting the seats adjustable back and forth on runners without ending up with the seats being too high.
I'm over 6' tall, the headroom in a Chimaera is fine for me with the standard TVR seats, but I'd hate the XJS seat project to turn out like this
The ultimate goal is to create a pair of "Plug & Play" adapter frames which (once bolted to the XJS seat frames) would allow anyone to easily drop a set of Jaguar XJS Recaro seats straight into a Chimaera.
The first set of adapter frames will be ready next week, thanks Gregor
The eagle eyed amongst you will notice these XJS runners are electric, mine are manual but the basic principles & measurements of the adapter frames will be the same.
The biggest challenge is getting the seats adjustable back and forth on runners without ending up with the seats being too high.
I'm over 6' tall, the headroom in a Chimaera is fine for me with the standard TVR seats, but I'd hate the XJS seat project to turn out like this
The ultimate goal is to create a pair of "Plug & Play" adapter frames which (once bolted to the XJS seat frames) would allow anyone to easily drop a set of Jaguar XJS Recaro seats straight into a Chimaera.
The first set of adapter frames will be ready next week, thanks Gregor
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