LPG Chimaera (Follow My Conversion)
Discussion
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Even tuned they can be efficient on low load cruising ..The engine only needs so much petrol and no more ..
I bet you could get 30mpg with the 5l if it`s setup properly
If you use the extra power to raise the gearing then you might have an argument.I bet you could get 30mpg with the 5l if it`s setup properly
Otherwise a tuned 500 will always use more fuel than a standard 400 overall.
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Even tuned they can be efficient on low load cruising ..The engine only needs so much petrol and no more ..
I bet you could get 30mpg with the 5l if it`s setup properly
1st of all Daz you dont need Lambda probes in the mix to get decent MPG so stop worring about it I bet you could get 30mpg with the 5l if it`s setup properly
you had the car mapped so remove them and keep them safe for future upgrades/check's/diagnostic's etc 
what happended to your 35 to the gallon or whatever it was that you kept raving on about some time back? 
au-revoir 
Hi i am from India and i own Tata Indigo 1800 CC 85 BHP engine. got LPG fitted now my mileage experience, i am having 60 liters of Tank.
Tank can be filled upto 60 liters but i do most time 56 liters standard here (28X2).
for 56 liters of LPG it runs about 350 miles.
Its quite smooth and bit compromise with pickup or else a little change in settings for better pickup could deliver about 320 miles.
I drive mostly on highways with speeds about 55 miles/hr.
Tank can be filled upto 60 liters but i do most time 56 liters standard here (28X2).
for 56 liters of LPG it runs about 350 miles.
Its quite smooth and bit compromise with pickup or else a little change in settings for better pickup could deliver about 320 miles.
I drive mostly on highways with speeds about 55 miles/hr.
Just when you thought it was all over, here's some more unhinged gas bagging from your favorite Chimp.
This is how we're planning to smash the 300 mile range target while still keeping that huge & wonderfully flexible boot space.
Trial fitting the bigger (four hole) bottom tank, luggage space & one piece roof panel storage completely unaffected
Chop chop....
But how much petrol will we actually lose
If it's seven gallons of the expensive stuff down to five she'll still do over 130 miles on petrol
BUT 350 MILES ON LPG
This is how we're planning to smash the 300 mile range target while still keeping that huge & wonderfully flexible boot space.
Trial fitting the bigger (four hole) bottom tank, luggage space & one piece roof panel storage completely unaffected
Chop chop....
But how much petrol will we actually lose
If it's seven gallons of the expensive stuff down to five she'll still do over 130 miles on petrol
BUT 350 MILES ON LPG
SILICONEKID343HP said:
I wonder if you spend more time doing spread sheets or sorting your misses out 
Have you seen his Mrs? I'm sure the spreadsheets take second place... SILICONEKID343HP said:
Got to say you have done a wonderful job well done !
Yeah - looking forward to seeing it sometime Dave!P
You're a funny guy Daz, and quite intuitive too
The current project should be seen as a tweak, an endorsement of the success of the conversion if you like.
Once you start on the gas you really resent paying almost £6 for a gallon of fuel that only takes you 25 miles or so down the road in a TVR.
Thoughts turn to...
"How can I trade a bit of that expensive petrol capacity to hold some more of the lovely cheap stuff"
I used to fill my petrol only TVR up every 270 miles to be safe, the best range I ever saw was 312 miles before I bottled it to pull in for a fill.
The new enhanced range 'Gas Bag" should canter on for 350 miles before needing some more LPG.
So with no real loss to boot space from the standard car the range is actually better on gas than a standard petrol only Chimaera.
And don't forget there's always the addition 130 miles of petrol if I need it, making it a 480 mile car between fills if need be.
With LPG conversions people will always tell you you'll lose range and performance, and yes these are real challenges.
But in this case we've not only eliminated these negatives, we've actually made the car better on both counts.
The car now makes more power on gas than petrol, drives even nicer on gas than petrol, and goes further on gas than it ever did on petrol.
With a little bit of extra weight in the boot it even handles better now it's on gas.
So, its a.... win, win, win, win, win situation.
All this and the cost equivalent of 45mpg, making this TVR less costly to run than my mates latest high tech but weedy 1,000cc Eco-Boost Ford Fiesta!
Whats not to like?
The cost of the conversion perhaps?
Well yes... but it only seems like yesterday I started all this and it's already saved me 12% of the initial investment.
Break even will come sooner than you think
The current project should be seen as a tweak, an endorsement of the success of the conversion if you like.
Once you start on the gas you really resent paying almost £6 for a gallon of fuel that only takes you 25 miles or so down the road in a TVR.
Thoughts turn to...
"How can I trade a bit of that expensive petrol capacity to hold some more of the lovely cheap stuff"
I used to fill my petrol only TVR up every 270 miles to be safe, the best range I ever saw was 312 miles before I bottled it to pull in for a fill.
The new enhanced range 'Gas Bag" should canter on for 350 miles before needing some more LPG.
So with no real loss to boot space from the standard car the range is actually better on gas than a standard petrol only Chimaera.
And don't forget there's always the addition 130 miles of petrol if I need it, making it a 480 mile car between fills if need be.
With LPG conversions people will always tell you you'll lose range and performance, and yes these are real challenges.
But in this case we've not only eliminated these negatives, we've actually made the car better on both counts.
The car now makes more power on gas than petrol, drives even nicer on gas than petrol, and goes further on gas than it ever did on petrol.
With a little bit of extra weight in the boot it even handles better now it's on gas.
So, its a.... win, win, win, win, win situation.
All this and the cost equivalent of 45mpg, making this TVR less costly to run than my mates latest high tech but weedy 1,000cc Eco-Boost Ford Fiesta!
Whats not to like?
The cost of the conversion perhaps?
Well yes... but it only seems like yesterday I started all this and it's already saved me 12% of the initial investment.
Break even will come sooner than you think
We've been messing about again
TIG welded twin bespoke swirl pots, solves the very slight fuel starvation on vigorous cornering & hard acceleration with the high mounted auxiliary petrol tank (a low fuel level issue only & now completely banished to the naughty corner).
Twin swirl pots also add back a gallon of petrol capacity to the new slimline petrol tank, which now quite logically makes way for more of the cheap stuff
A better petrol tank mounting frame for added safety.
Off with his head, more cheap gas means less expensive petrol.
Petrol..... I miss you not
Petrol filler goes all low profile flush fitting to save a few precious millimetres under the boot lid, gives a nice trick ally aero/race bike look too
Gas fill goes up from 53 litres to 62 litres, giving a better touring range than the standard petrol car, and there's still over 150 miles of petrol if you get stuck for LPG (never even came close to that yet).
Total range now touching 480 miles before the need to stop for fuel, she's like a 250hp V8 camel
Pop the one piece roof in, and despite the extra gas there's absolutely no loss of luggage space
Next stop, THE TRIMMER? (as yet not sure who I'll use).
Tanks (gas & petrol) will be trimmed in matching boot carpet for the ultimate stealth look
Next up, another 100 ponies courtesy of SC Power.
Watch this space
Many thanks to the team at LLOYD SPECIALIST DEVELOPMENTS for their amazing patience with me & their unshakable belief in my unhinged but immensely rewarding "Gas Bag" project
TIG welded twin bespoke swirl pots, solves the very slight fuel starvation on vigorous cornering & hard acceleration with the high mounted auxiliary petrol tank (a low fuel level issue only & now completely banished to the naughty corner).
Twin swirl pots also add back a gallon of petrol capacity to the new slimline petrol tank, which now quite logically makes way for more of the cheap stuff
A better petrol tank mounting frame for added safety.
Off with his head, more cheap gas means less expensive petrol.
Petrol..... I miss you not
Petrol filler goes all low profile flush fitting to save a few precious millimetres under the boot lid, gives a nice trick ally aero/race bike look too
Gas fill goes up from 53 litres to 62 litres, giving a better touring range than the standard petrol car, and there's still over 150 miles of petrol if you get stuck for LPG (never even came close to that yet).
Total range now touching 480 miles before the need to stop for fuel, she's like a 250hp V8 camel
Pop the one piece roof in, and despite the extra gas there's absolutely no loss of luggage space
Next stop, THE TRIMMER? (as yet not sure who I'll use).
Tanks (gas & petrol) will be trimmed in matching boot carpet for the ultimate stealth look
Next up, another 100 ponies courtesy of SC Power.
Watch this space
Many thanks to the team at LLOYD SPECIALIST DEVELOPMENTS for their amazing patience with me & their unshakable belief in my unhinged but immensely rewarding "Gas Bag" project
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Sunday 22 December 10:29
Sardonicus said:
WOW thats some fuel range.
Cheers Simon, I always think its worth comparing it with other current/comparable sports cars.Lets see what range the large manufactures consider practical for their sports car customers.
A Honda S2000 holds 11 gallons so at absolute best you'll only get 310 miles out of one before you run out.
A new BMW Z4 holds 12.3 gallons so the less powerful/thirsty variants under optimum conditions will give a 350 mile range.
The little MX5 holds 10.5 gallons but is more economical so will also take you 350 miles between fills.
A Porshe Boxster does better holding 14 gallons, so should cover a very practical 390 miles between fuel stops, again under optimum conditions.
So with the exception of the S2000 which is about the same as a standard petrol Chimaera, they all easily beat the Chim.
Which is a shame as the Chimaera really is an epic grand touring traditional old school sports car just made for those epic jaunts down to the South of France.
Some may not care about range, but it's important to me, especially now I'm dual fuel.
When you convert any car to LPG delivering a practical fuel range can be a big challenge, and not because LPG filling stations are hard to find, its a packaging thing and a product of the increased fuel consumption you'll inevitably see when running on gas.
Impractical range along with power loss & reduced luggage space are often sighted as reasons why not to convert to LPG, I'm just trying to kick each & every one of these challenges firmly into touch.
In my opinion, with its LPG friendly Rover V8 engine and enormous boot, the TVR Chimaera is just about the very best sports car candidate for an LPG conversion.
When you put 300 miles of petrol in your petrol only TVR it'll cost you at least £66.00 (probably more like £73.00).
When I put 300 miles of LPG in 'Ol Gasbag' it only costs me £42.00, that's like fuelling a Ford Fiesta!
And the Fiesta doesn't make 250hp in a thunderous & thrilling V8 package that weighs just over 1000kg
Finally I have to confess that £24 I save every time I fill up just seems to make me smile
Discopotatoes said:
Don't know how I missed this Dave?
But all I can say is awesome
But all I can say is awesome
Thanks mate, after ditching the expensive Keihin injectors it all worked out well, their impedance was just too low for the Canems LPG peak & hold injector drivers to cope with.
MagicJet injectors were the inexpensive & 100% proven solution.
Note to self...."don't try to change a proven recipe"...
Final tweaks included running a closed loop strategy for even smoother LPG drivability, essentially it's impossible to tell what fuel you're driving on without feeling if the hidden change over switch is in or out.
A larger bottom LPG tank was also fitted so she now holds a total of 14 gallons of LPG giving over 300 miles range on gas alone, the petrol tank was reduced to make space for this which dropped the petrol capacity to 5 gallons.
To bring the petrol capacity back up to 6 gallons we installed two 2.3 litre swirl pots low in the boot which also solved the fuel starvation on hard cornering and returned the petrol range to 150 miles on top of the 300 miles of gas to give an impressive total range of 450 miles between fills (if required).
All this means I can fill up here in Watford and drive straight to Le Mans uninterrupted or hindered by fuel stops and still arrive with fuel to spare.
Discopotatoes said:
Do loydds have this as a product now, Or is it all still bespoke?
The Canems Dual Fuel ECU has been available for a few years now, the LPG & petrol tank packaging was my own design that anyone is free to copy.The original targa panel fits in the boot easily with plenty of space left for luggage, but for this summer I've gone with a Surrey top arrangement to make a roof off Le Mans Classic trip even more convenient.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Discopotatoes said:
Is it worth the costs involved?
Well that's a big question, it really boils down to a couple of things.1. The miles you do, the system saves about 9p per mile
2. The maths only really stack up if you are already considering ditching the Lucas 14CUX for a mappable engine management system
Lets say you are thinking about going with the Canems petrol only system as many have of late, upgrading to the Dual Fuel ECU only costs an extra £265.
Drive it on petrol for a while and enjoy all the benefits of the Canems system on the petrol side because you were going to do that anyway, then when funds permit you can deploy your £265 additional investment by wireing up the LPG injectors fitting the LPG tanks ect.
This is the way I did it, I was ditching the 14CUX for a Canems system anyway so for me investing the extra £265 in the Dual Fuel model made perfect sense.
Its like paying £265 for a piggy back LPG ECU, the difference is the Canems Dual Fuel ECU is a rather more elegant one box design, not a splice job where the piggy back is trying to manipulate the petrol injector durations in an attempt to make them correct for the gas injectors.
The Canems Dual Fuel ECU allows you to build unique fuel & ignition maps for the unique requirements of each fuel type.
So to answer your "is it worth the costs" question, using the above logic it will stack up like this:
- Additional cost of the dual fuel element of the Canems ECU = £265
- Bespoke petrol tank & swirl pots = £400
- One 30 litre & one 42 litre LPG tank = £380
- 8 MagicJet injectors = £100
- Assorted pipe work & fittings = £150
- Vaporizer = £100
- Fitting & mapping = £500
So £1,895 divided by the £0.09p you save for ever mile you drive means driving 21,055 miles to reach pay back day.
If you do 5,000 miles a year it'll more or less take four years to become cost neutral, but if you do 10,000 miles a year it'll only take two years.
To work out the financial viability of this LPG conversion for yourself simply take your annual mileage and divide it by the 21,000 miles it will take to pay for itself in savings. This will instantly give you the number of years it'll take before you recover your investment.
Remember after you've reached your pay back day you'll continue to save £0.09p for every mile you drive but by this point the savings are all yours to enjoy, so if you're doing 10,000 miles a year you'll be saving a clear £900 every year in fuel costs thereafter.
When running on LPG, the Canems Duel Fuel ECU & my tank packaging gives me.... no loss in performance, excellent driveability, no loss of range (With 150 miles more if you use the auxiliary petrol tank) and best of all the car looks completely standard from the outside.
It's also all completely reversible, put the standard petrol tank back in and remove the pipework and in an afternoon it's back to petrol only. I have to say I doubt I'll ever do this though.
In summary, if you're thinking about ditching your 14CUX & distributor in favor of a mapped engine management system you may want to consider paying the small premium for the dual fuel element on the Camems.
But please do your sums first using the above numbers as a guide, and be honest with yourself about how many miles you do annually & how long you're prepared to wait for that glorious pay back day.
An LPG conversion is not for everyone, but for me it all made perfect sense and I'm absolutely delighted with the end result.
The Chimaera is a hugely practical sports car, it's only real failing being it's considerable thirst for fuel, fortunately for many reasons the Chimaera is also ideally suited to a well executed LPG conversion, the huge boot and the LPG friendly Rover V8 being just two.
And trust me, when you have a Chimaera that does the cost equivalent of 40mpg you'll not be buying much petrol in the future.
Keep up the good work Dave - just about to get my Griff back after 9m off the road (didn't plan for that in my Man Maths!) - have been told to 'run in' the new engine on petrol before switching to gas.
To encourage anyone further with Advanced Man Maths (see p5 if you're interested) my 14.5p a mile saving on a £1400 conversion gives a payback within < 10,000 miles
Of course the real driver for us is the excuse/justification to use the cars more often than we would otherwise do
To encourage anyone further with Advanced Man Maths (see p5 if you're interested) my 14.5p a mile saving on a £1400 conversion gives a payback within < 10,000 miles
Of course the real driver for us is the excuse/justification to use the cars more often than we would otherwise do
pjac67 said:
Snapped crankshaft bent the botton end (ie not related to LPG!)
Ooops, sorry to hear that 
We like a TVR that crackles & pops, but we can all do without the snap!
pjac67 said:
put in a new 5.4 V8D which should be good for 400 lbft....
Nice When will people stop associating LPG with taxis or forklift trucks and realise it needn't mean any loss in performance whatsoever?
At 110Ron with the right ignition map it's actually a high octane performance fuel, that just happens to be almost half the cost.
TBH 'Ol Gasbag' is just begging for a blower
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