DIY tuners and mappers unite
Discussion
Replying now.RR session on Saturday @ Ricky Gauld Performance Tuning in Huntly.
Run 1 - Max Power 337 bhp @ 5173 rpm, Max Toque 378 lbft
Run 2 – Max Power 337 bhp @ 5482 rpm, Max Torque 380 lbft
Generally the fuel Map was already pretty good in the cruise and normal driving areas. Top end was rich and was leaned out a bit for the second run. Could have done with a third run as it is still a little rich but time was limited as we also wanted to do some mapping on the road.
The road mapping was really useful and the car now drives much better, also managed to fix my shunting problem at low load /revs by increasing the fuelling on the bottom line of the table at around 1500 – 2000 rpm.
Only real problem is that my Lambda gauge seems to be quite a bit out (~0.5 higher than the Exhaust mounted RR gauge @ 3000 rpm) not sure if this is a calibration issue or a wiring issue similar to Daz’s. I’ll try and do a comparison between the RR data and My log of the second run to compare the AFR readings over the whole rev range.
Also still have the pre-cats in as I never had time to swap the manifolds over beforehand. Not sure what sort of improvement the de-catted manifolds will make but hopefully the current map won’t be too far out.
Run 1 - Max Power 337 bhp @ 5173 rpm, Max Toque 378 lbft
Run 2 – Max Power 337 bhp @ 5482 rpm, Max Torque 380 lbft
Generally the fuel Map was already pretty good in the cruise and normal driving areas. Top end was rich and was leaned out a bit for the second run. Could have done with a third run as it is still a little rich but time was limited as we also wanted to do some mapping on the road.
The road mapping was really useful and the car now drives much better, also managed to fix my shunting problem at low load /revs by increasing the fuelling on the bottom line of the table at around 1500 – 2000 rpm.
Only real problem is that my Lambda gauge seems to be quite a bit out (~0.5 higher than the Exhaust mounted RR gauge @ 3000 rpm) not sure if this is a calibration issue or a wiring issue similar to Daz’s. I’ll try and do a comparison between the RR data and My log of the second run to compare the AFR readings over the whole rev range.
Also still have the pre-cats in as I never had time to swap the manifolds over beforehand. Not sure what sort of improvement the de-catted manifolds will make but hopefully the current map won’t be too far out.
Peter,
Spec is very similar do Daz's car,
V8 Development 5.0l engine with Stage 3 heads and Stealth Cam,
Ported Trumpet base and Flared Trumpets,
Enlarged Plenum,
ACT induction kit,
Megasquirt (Plug 'n' play from V8D, originally fuel only)
Wasted Spark ignition (p38 Coil packs mounted behind Plenum)
Now just need to install the decatted manifolds, Fix the AFR gauge and Rev counter and should be done. Reamining jobs should all be cosmetic (Front lights and resparay) although a Clive F y piece and new exhaust are temping me at the moment.
Spec is very similar do Daz's car,
V8 Development 5.0l engine with Stage 3 heads and Stealth Cam,
Ported Trumpet base and Flared Trumpets,
Enlarged Plenum,
ACT induction kit,
Megasquirt (Plug 'n' play from V8D, originally fuel only)
Wasted Spark ignition (p38 Coil packs mounted behind Plenum)
Now just need to install the decatted manifolds, Fix the AFR gauge and Rev counter and should be done. Reamining jobs should all be cosmetic (Front lights and resparay) although a Clive F y piece and new exhaust are temping me at the moment.
Just trying to get my head round the Lambda inaccuracy. Re-read all the info on the Tech-edge site here http://wbo2.com/sw/wblinout.htm but still not sure whether it’s a problem with the sensor calibration or wiring.
The WBlin+ & WBlin- are only required for hooking up to the ECU or external data logger. If these are used then the WBlin+ is the feed to the ECU or logger and WBlin- must be connected to the dame ground as the ECU.
Both the Lambda Controller power ground and WBlin- on mine are connected to the chassis ground just in front of the gear stick on the passenger side while the ECU is grounded to the engine block. So it looks as though I’m going to have to relocate the ground points to the engine block.
However the Tech-edge gauge and tuner studio readings appear to be the same, if there is a grounding issue I would have expected the readings to be different, since the grounds wouldn’t be an issue if controller was only feeding the gauge. Might be totally wrong on this though.
So plan is as follows:
1. Take a video showing the Tuner Studio AFR and the Gauge AFR reading side by side. Should then be able to pause it and confirm readings match.
2. If the readings match re-do the Free to air Sensor Calibration.
3. If readings are different try and recalibrate the AFR within tuner studio to compensate for the Voltage offset (don’t know whether this is possible)
4. If above doesn’t work, relocate the ground to the engine block (major PITA though)
The WBlin+ & WBlin- are only required for hooking up to the ECU or external data logger. If these are used then the WBlin+ is the feed to the ECU or logger and WBlin- must be connected to the dame ground as the ECU.
Both the Lambda Controller power ground and WBlin- on mine are connected to the chassis ground just in front of the gear stick on the passenger side while the ECU is grounded to the engine block. So it looks as though I’m going to have to relocate the ground points to the engine block.
However the Tech-edge gauge and tuner studio readings appear to be the same, if there is a grounding issue I would have expected the readings to be different, since the grounds wouldn’t be an issue if controller was only feeding the gauge. Might be totally wrong on this though.
So plan is as follows:
1. Take a video showing the Tuner Studio AFR and the Gauge AFR reading side by side. Should then be able to pause it and confirm readings match.
2. If the readings match re-do the Free to air Sensor Calibration.
3. If readings are different try and recalibrate the AFR within tuner studio to compensate for the Voltage offset (don’t know whether this is possible)
4. If above doesn’t work, relocate the ground to the engine block (major PITA though)
angus337 said:
Just trying to get my head round the Lambda inaccuracy. Re-read all the info on the Tech-edge site here http://wbo2.com/sw/wblinout.htm but still not sure whether it’s a problem with the sensor calibration or wiring.
The WBlin+ & WBlin- are only required for hooking up to the ECU or external data logger. If these are used then the WBlin+ is the feed to the ECU or logger and WBlin- must be connected to the dame ground as the ECU.
Both the Lambda Controller power ground and WBlin- on mine are connected to the chassis ground just in front of the gear stick on the passenger side while the ECU is grounded to the engine block. So it looks as though I’m going to have to relocate the ground points to the engine block.
However the Tech-edge gauge and tuner studio readings appear to be the same, if there is a grounding issue I would have expected the readings to be different, since the grounds wouldn’t be an issue if controller was only feeding the gauge. Might be totally wrong on this though.
So plan is as follows:
1. Take a video showing the Tuner Studio AFR and the Gauge AFR reading side by side. Should then be able to pause it and confirm readings match.
2. If the readings match re-do the Free to air Sensor Calibration.
3. If readings are different try and recalibrate the AFR within tuner studio to compensate for the Voltage offset (don’t know whether this is possible)
4. If above doesn’t work, relocate the ground to the engine block (major PITA though)
Maybe most people are not to bothered has long as it works ! don`t think you have done anything wrong .The WBlin+ & WBlin- are only required for hooking up to the ECU or external data logger. If these are used then the WBlin+ is the feed to the ECU or logger and WBlin- must be connected to the dame ground as the ECU.
Both the Lambda Controller power ground and WBlin- on mine are connected to the chassis ground just in front of the gear stick on the passenger side while the ECU is grounded to the engine block. So it looks as though I’m going to have to relocate the ground points to the engine block.
However the Tech-edge gauge and tuner studio readings appear to be the same, if there is a grounding issue I would have expected the readings to be different, since the grounds wouldn’t be an issue if controller was only feeding the gauge. Might be totally wrong on this though.
So plan is as follows:
1. Take a video showing the Tuner Studio AFR and the Gauge AFR reading side by side. Should then be able to pause it and confirm readings match.
2. If the readings match re-do the Free to air Sensor Calibration.
3. If readings are different try and recalibrate the AFR within tuner studio to compensate for the Voltage offset (don’t know whether this is possible)
4. If above doesn’t work, relocate the ground to the engine block (major PITA though)
If you cant correct the offsets with Grounding corrections then just change the WB output voltages until both software and WB gauge follow .... for instance 0.00 volts = 10.0 AFR ~ 5.00 volts = 20 AFR corrected it could look like this 0.50 volts = 10 AFR ~ 4.70 volts = 20.00 AFR 
or similar 
its a bit of pissing around but you just have to check after that the software and WB follow each other linearly
or similar its a bit of pissing around but you just have to check after that the software and WB follow each other linearly Sardonicus said:
If you cant correct the offsets with Grounding corrections then just change the WB output voltages until both software and WB gauge follow .... for instance 0.00 volts = 10.0 AFR ~ 5.00 volts = 20 AFR corrected it could look like this 0.50 volts = 10 AFR ~ 4.70 volts = 20.00 AFR or similar its a bit of pissing around but you just have to check after that the software and WB follow each other linearly
Jools did all that on mine but had to turn the lambdas off in the end ,shame after all the money I have spent on lambda sensors .. or similar its a bit of pissing around but you just have to check after that the software and WB follow each other linearly Its a different story once it`s compared to the more superior equipment which the Mappers have.
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Jools did all that on mine but had to turn the lambdas off in the end ,shame after all the money I have spent on lambda sensors ..
Its a different story once it`s compared to the more superior equipment which the Mappers have.
Don't get wrapped up with running closed loop anyway if your running De-Cat Its a different story once it`s compared to the more superior equipment which the Mappers have.
I run open loop all the time anyway lets face it if your trying to squeeze the last MPG then why run a V8 
I would rather know that I am running proper fueling low down with all the other benefits i.e throttle response virtually eliminated shunting etc just my cents worth others do things differently I know 
I can't get my head around those map numbers .. are those real time milliseconds every 2 engine revs? if so at 6500rpm you only have 18.5 milliseconds of engine rotation time to get your 22 milliseconds of injector duration into? something not right there. What are the numbers in your fuel map relating to ? By my reckoning your injectors are maxed out at load site 12 (100% duty) and really you should have a bit of reserve in there too. Not sure I understand what's going on there ..
Edited by spitfire4v8 on Wednesday 28th August 19:23
spitfire4v8 said:
I can't get my head around those map numbers .. are those real time milliseconds every 2 engine revs? if so at 6500rpm you only have 18.5 milliseconds of engine rotation time to get your 22 milliseconds of injector duration into? something not right there. What are the numbers in your fuel map relating to ? By my reckoning your injectors are maxed out at load site 12 (100% duty) and really you should have a bit of reserve in there too. Not sure I understand what's going on there ..
Tbh I've not been able to map it past 180kpa or column 11, so the figures past that are theoretical, and do need looking at but I was in the low 11 AFRs at 180 kpa so could lean it off a bit. The injectors are 650 cc so I doubt they are maxed out! Edited by spitfire4v8 on Wednesday 28th August 19:23
I'm still learning about this mapping malarkey so I'm open to suggestions.
Also after a 1400 mile road trip around France it returned an average of 28.3mpg so I was quite chuffed with that.
Edited by Discopotatoes on Thursday 5th September 00:26
Hi All, been stuck at home in house looking after newish baby so been playing with TunerStudio.
I am getting 18/19 to the gallon at the moment on mainly motorway work and driving around in the wet so going gently. Way off the mid 20s that others are getting. I am running Neal's old twin turbo motor so fuel economy not the be all and end all, but set me in motion looking at AFR and ignition.
I used Disco's advance table in this topic to roughly map into my table format to compare for interests sake. Would be interested what other forced induction set ups are using (I am maxing out at 1 bar boost).
Here are the two tables side by side and they are significantly different in some areas. I know I need to get to a Dyno to sort this for my set up but would be interested in any comments. I am also looking at knock sensors as my old Thor Range Rover is getting scrapped so I am going to pull them and see if I can figure out an install with MS.
My current spark table looks like this:
[url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/dqg5XyYE[/url]
Disco's spark table translated roughly to my table would look like this:
My current AFR targets are as follows:
Car is running well so not about to make any rash changes, but interested to get any views as I try and learn a little more about this black art.
Cheers,
Matt
I am getting 18/19 to the gallon at the moment on mainly motorway work and driving around in the wet so going gently. Way off the mid 20s that others are getting. I am running Neal's old twin turbo motor so fuel economy not the be all and end all, but set me in motion looking at AFR and ignition.
I used Disco's advance table in this topic to roughly map into my table format to compare for interests sake. Would be interested what other forced induction set ups are using (I am maxing out at 1 bar boost).
Here are the two tables side by side and they are significantly different in some areas. I know I need to get to a Dyno to sort this for my set up but would be interested in any comments. I am also looking at knock sensors as my old Thor Range Rover is getting scrapped so I am going to pull them and see if I can figure out an install with MS.
My current spark table looks like this:
[url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/dqg5XyYE[/url]Disco's spark table translated roughly to my table would look like this:
My current AFR targets are as follows:
Car is running well so not about to make any rash changes, but interested to get any views as I try and learn a little more about this black art.
Cheers,
Matt
Edited by mattrosersv on Saturday 8th March 00:01
Had another go at fixing My Rev Couter at the weekend and realised that the Tach output was switched off in Tunerstudio.
Tried switching this using pin JS11, which seemed to be the default, but this gave a confilct error and didn't give a measurable volatge from the ECU output (I believe the output should be ~5v to drive the tachfix module)
Tuner studio gives the following options for the Tach out, can I ask what out put pin others are using.
IGN (JS10)
IAC1
IAC2
JS11
FIDLE
D14
D16
D15
AD06/JS5
AD07/JS4
Tried switching this using pin JS11, which seemed to be the default, but this gave a confilct error and didn't give a measurable volatge from the ECU output (I believe the output should be ~5v to drive the tachfix module)
Tuner studio gives the following options for the Tach out, can I ask what out put pin others are using.
IGN (JS10)
IAC1
IAC2
JS11
FIDLE
D14
D16
D15
AD06/JS5
AD07/JS4
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