DIY tuners and mappers unite
Discussion
SILICONEKID350HP said:
Some of the mappers want to replace the air temp sensor for one of these new MAFF units ! any advantages ..?
Yes and no daz, the ultimate way of fuelling an engine is to measure the amount of air that goes into it, air plus fuel = optimal running, the down side is, as good and as quick as ecu's are that take time to process so can feel slugish on throttle responsev8 racing said:
Yes and no daz, the ultimate way of fuelling an engine is to measure the amount of air that goes into it, air plus fuel = optimal running, the down side is, as good and as quick as ecu's are that take time to process so can feel slugish on throttle response
At what point should the lambdas stop trimming the fueling and go on to open loop ? If the lambdas can not give the feed back quick enough how is the engine tuned at higher rpm ?Edited by SILICONEKID350HP on Friday 12th April 21:34
SILICONEKID350HP said:
At what point should the lambdas stop trimming the fueling and go on to open loop ? If the lambdas can not give the feed back quick enough how is the engine tuned at higher rpm ?
I have to say i am not a fan of running lambda's at all, they are there to correct the map (fuelling) if its not right, i would use a lambda to check things if a problem occurs, but not use for setting the engine tuneEdited by SILICONEKID350HP on Friday 12th April 21:34
v8 racing said:
I have to say i am not a fan of running lambda's at all, they are there to correct the map (fuelling) if its not right, i would use a lambda to check things if a problem occurs, but not use for setting the engine tune
How is it tuned without lambdas ? how can you rely on a lambda unless they are checked on the rollers ? They may be miles out !SILICONEKID350HP said:
How is it tuned without lambdas ? how can you rely on a lambda unless they are checked on the rollers ? They may be miles out !
Why do you assume the one on the rolling road is accurate? It's controlled by the same technology and may suffer offsets and other errors too.An experienced and skilful mapper/tuner will get very close to what a c0ck-on lambda assisted set up will achieve just by listening and feeling what the engine is doing... how do you think engines were tuned before O2 sensors existed?
Pupp said:
Why do you assume the one on the rolling road is accurate? It's controlled by the same technology and may suffer offsets and other errors too.
An experienced and skilful mapper/tuner will get very close to what a c0ck-on lambda assisted set up will achieve just by listening and feeling what the engine is doing... how do you think engines were tuned before O2 sensors existed?
Like this ..An experienced and skilful mapper/tuner will get very close to what a c0ck-on lambda assisted set up will achieve just by listening and feeling what the engine is doing... how do you think engines were tuned before O2 sensors existed?
I had the great privilege of hanging around this old RAF engineer, he used to do up classics, I watched him tune a Bentley Blower by ear, brilliant as he was nigh on deaf?
He used to sit on the engine to feel if it was rough or not
I'm making it up now, lol lol lol lol lol lol goodnight gents.
He used to sit on the engine to feel if it was rough or not
I'm making it up now, lol lol lol lol lol lol goodnight gents.
Daz basically what you have to control your fuelling is a main fuel map, this is your x by x table that you can see, every thing else, air temp, coolant temp, air mass, lambda etc... are all correction factors to the main map, everything kind of works hand in hand with each other, you could have the best main map in the world but if the correction factors are wrong it will destroy the main map, imho the best way to tune an engine is to run the car on the road at its normal operating temp, lets say 85deg, turn off all the correction factors, tune the engine as best you can to this temp, once you have this map leave it alone, from there go back out on the road at different temps and tune the correction factors to meet what you want.
As for running your ecu off a lambda, this is done by a so called lambda map like your's, the downside to this is you dont really know if this is optimised for your motor, some engines on cruise like 15afr some like 14afr, if a pre programed map is insatalled for a regular mild tuned engine it may not suit another engine
As for running your ecu off a lambda, this is done by a so called lambda map like your's, the downside to this is you dont really know if this is optimised for your motor, some engines on cruise like 15afr some like 14afr, if a pre programed map is insatalled for a regular mild tuned engine it may not suit another engine
v8 racing said:
imho the best way to tune an engine is to run the car on the road at its normal operating temp, lets say 85deg, turn off all the correction factors, tune the engine as best you can to this temp, once you have this map leave it alone, from there go back out on the road at different temps and tune the correction factors to meet what you want.
noted... 
I didnt get any more tuning done on mine at the weekend. I cleaned it and did a few other jobs. I look forward to tuning it on the fly on the next trip South in it in 2 weeks. I cant believe i got nearly 29 mpg very easily in the Chim but only got 28 mpg out of my Mazda 323 on the trip back South last night.
db418BHP said:
noted...
I didnt get any more tuning done on mine at the weekend. I cleaned it and did a few other jobs. I look forward to tuning it on the fly on the next trip South in it in 2 weeks. I cant believe i got nearly 29 mpg very easily in the Chim but only got 28 mpg out of my Mazda 323 on the trip back South last night.
Do you drive and then burn or let it burn as it goes ? What are the settings for auto tune ? EGO control etc . Is there anyone local ish to me who can set my laptop up ..don`t have a clue how to do it .I didnt get any more tuning done on mine at the weekend. I cleaned it and did a few other jobs. I look forward to tuning it on the fly on the next trip South in it in 2 weeks. I cant believe i got nearly 29 mpg very easily in the Chim but only got 28 mpg out of my Mazda 323 on the trip back South last night.
SILICONEKID350HP said:
db418BHP said:
noted...
I didnt get any more tuning done on mine at the weekend. I cleaned it and did a few other jobs. I look forward to tuning it on the fly on the next trip South in it in 2 weeks. I cant believe i got nearly 29 mpg very easily in the Chim but only got 28 mpg out of my Mazda 323 on the trip back South last night.
Do you drive and then burn or let it burn as it goes ? What are the settings for auto tune ? EGO control etc . Is there anyone local ish to me who can set my laptop up ..don`t have a clue how to do it .I didnt get any more tuning done on mine at the weekend. I cleaned it and did a few other jobs. I look forward to tuning it on the fly on the next trip South in it in 2 weeks. I cant believe i got nearly 29 mpg very easily in the Chim but only got 28 mpg out of my Mazda 323 on the trip back South last night.
SILICONEKID350HP said:
Do you drive and then burn or let it burn as it goes ? What are the settings for auto tune ? EGO control etc . Is there anyone local ish to me who can set my laptop up ..don`t have a clue how to do it .
I am on my first baby steps when it comes to tuning and MS yet Daz. I knew my car was running too rich so addressed that first then made some changes to the ignition map and retuned the cruise fuelling again on the way home last week.The laptop was plugged into the ECU and the 3D fuelling map on show. Hit the G button to follow the map as you drive. All i did was glance at the AFR gauge as i drove at various speeds and throttle positions and hit either Q to richen or W to weaken where i thought it needed it. I only messed with the main cruise area from 1800 to about 3500 rpm and all throttle positions upto about 25%. You hit ALT and B to burn to the ECU. I also do regular Save As with a suitable name including the date so i can take a step back if i need to.
I hope i am doing the right thing and not messing it up too much yet
If my map is good ,surely the auto tune will read the lambda feed back and adjust the VE table to make it close to spot on ..The autotune will not make bad map good .
I think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
I think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
SILICONEKID350HP said:
If my map is good ,surely the auto tune will read the lambda feed back and adjust the VE table to make it close to spot on ..The autotune will not make bad map good .
I think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
No totally the opposite, sorry dont really know how to explain any easier, if your map is good and close, but your ve table is sI think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
t, it will read the ve table
SILICONEKID350HP said:
If my map is good ,surely the auto tune will read the lambda feed back and adjust the VE table to make it close to spot on ..The autotune will not make bad map good .
I think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
Daz you said a while back you had differing readings from MS software and what the WB was indicating (voltage offset) fix this 1st or your just pissing in the wind and no Auto-tuning for you in this condition or you will end up with a right mess I think the map has to be pretty close for the autotune to work ..
I would of thought when changing injectors ,it would of been better to do some calculations first ,change the VE table before tuning .
Get your'e wallet out Daz,
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v8 racing said:
No totally the opposite, sorry dont really know how to explain any easier, if your map is good and close, but your ve table is st, it will read the ve table
I mean the VE numbers ! if they are miles out it`s to much for the autotune .. I thought the autotune were just to perfect it once its very close.t, it will read the ve tableGassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff