DIY tuners and mappers unite
Discussion
SILICONEKID350HP said:
I mean the VE numbers ! if they are miles out it`s to much for the autotune .. I thought the autotune were just to perfect it once its very close.
You can adjust how much and how easy the cells change,But if you're wideband is even the slightest bit out on tuner studio and the afr targets are wrong you will end up with a total disaster
Daz,
I’m a bit confused, when you refer to the map are you talking about the AFR table, advance table or the VE table? I think the term map includes all of these. If Phil did your mapping I would be surprised if any of these are too far out. It seems that your main issue is regarding closed loop and Autotune.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but my understanding is that normally running on ‘closed loop’ refers to EGO control which adjusts the fuelling while driving to try and match the AFR table. This only really only works well at fairly constant load as ECU cannot react quickly enough to adjust the fuelling during heavy acceleration and deceleration.
You will see from the settings (EGO control in Basic settings) that there are certain areas on the map that ego control is disabled. I currently have EGO control switched off as, but the default settings originally were:
So basically you need the VE table to be pretty much spot on regardless of whether you are running in closed loop or not.
Autotune is used for tuning the VE table and I wouldn’t consider this to be true closed loop as it isn't directly controlling the fuelling, even if you have it set to automatically update the controller, which I wouldn't recommend.
As mentioned before go for a drive with auto tune activated and monitor the recommended changes and accept them if you are happy, then repeat. You will need the engine to be up to normal operating temperature to do this as the software doesn’t compensate for warm-up enrichments which could be active up to about 75 – 80 deg.
You can set filters under advanced settings so that the software ignores certain data, e.g. below 72 degC and 1000 RPM. Additionally you can limit the maximum cell value or percentage change which is definitely required if you have it set to automatically update the controller as you drive.
Autotune works very differently to EGO control as it effectively logs data and only updates the VE table when it has enough data adjust the map so it isn't strictly closed loop. The amount of data required before it makes a change can be adjusted by adjusting the cell change resistance under advanced settings.
If you also want to use the VE analyser function in megalog viewer it is important to save you tunes files and corresponding log files.
I’m a bit confused, when you refer to the map are you talking about the AFR table, advance table or the VE table? I think the term map includes all of these. If Phil did your mapping I would be surprised if any of these are too far out. It seems that your main issue is regarding closed loop and Autotune.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but my understanding is that normally running on ‘closed loop’ refers to EGO control which adjusts the fuelling while driving to try and match the AFR table. This only really only works well at fairly constant load as ECU cannot react quickly enough to adjust the fuelling during heavy acceleration and deceleration.
You will see from the settings (EGO control in Basic settings) that there are certain areas on the map that ego control is disabled. I currently have EGO control switched off as, but the default settings originally were:
- Active above 600 rpm
- Active above coolant temp 71 degC
- Active below TPS 70%
So basically you need the VE table to be pretty much spot on regardless of whether you are running in closed loop or not.
Autotune is used for tuning the VE table and I wouldn’t consider this to be true closed loop as it isn't directly controlling the fuelling, even if you have it set to automatically update the controller, which I wouldn't recommend.
As mentioned before go for a drive with auto tune activated and monitor the recommended changes and accept them if you are happy, then repeat. You will need the engine to be up to normal operating temperature to do this as the software doesn’t compensate for warm-up enrichments which could be active up to about 75 – 80 deg.
You can set filters under advanced settings so that the software ignores certain data, e.g. below 72 degC and 1000 RPM. Additionally you can limit the maximum cell value or percentage change which is definitely required if you have it set to automatically update the controller as you drive.
Autotune works very differently to EGO control as it effectively logs data and only updates the VE table when it has enough data adjust the map so it isn't strictly closed loop. The amount of data required before it makes a change can be adjusted by adjusting the cell change resistance under advanced settings.
If you also want to use the VE analyser function in megalog viewer it is important to save you tunes files and corresponding log files.
Edited by angus99 on Monday 15th April 23:29
Edited by angus99 on Monday 15th April 23:31
angus99 said:
Daz,
I’m a bit confused, when you refer to the map are you talking about the AFR table, advance table or the VE table? I think the term map includes all of these. If Phil did your mapping I would be surprised if any of these are too far out. It seems that your main issue is regarding closed loop and Autotune.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but my understanding is that normally running on ‘closed loop’ refers to EGO control which adjusts the fuelling while driving to try and match the AFR table. This only really only works well at fairly constant load as ECU cannot react quickly enough to adjust the fuelling during heavy acceleration and deceleration.
You will see from the settings (EGO control in Basic settings) that there are certain areas on the map that ego control is disabled. I currently have EGO control switched off as, but the default settings originally were:
So basically you need the VE table to be pretty much spot on regardless of whether you are running in closed loop or not.
Autotune is used for tuning the VE table and I wouldn’t consider this to be true closed loop as it isn't directly controlling the fuelling, even if you have it set to automatically update the controller, which I wouldn't recommend.
As mentioned before go for a drive with auto tune activated and monitor the recommended changes and accept them if you are happy, then repeat. You will need the engine to be up to normal operating temperature to do this as the software doesn’t compensate for warm-up enrichments which could be active up to about 75 – 80 deg.
You can set filters under advanced settings so that the software ignores certain data, e.g. below 72 degC and 1000 RPM. Additionally you can limit the maximum cell value or percentage change which is definitely required if you have it set to automatically update the controller as you drive.
Autotune works very differently to EGO control as it effectively logs data and only updates the VE table when it has enough data adjust the map so it isn't strictly closed loop. The amount of data required before it makes a change can be adjusted by adjusting the cell change resistance under advanced settings.
If you also want to use the VE analyser function in megalog viewer it is important to save you tunes files and corresponding log files.
I`m talking about the VE table ,is that the pulse width which changes the amount or time or width the injectors are open . I thought the auto tune reads the Lamabda feed back then changes the VE table to get close as possible to the target afr..I’m a bit confused, when you refer to the map are you talking about the AFR table, advance table or the VE table? I think the term map includes all of these. If Phil did your mapping I would be surprised if any of these are too far out. It seems that your main issue is regarding closed loop and Autotune.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but my understanding is that normally running on ‘closed loop’ refers to EGO control which adjusts the fuelling while driving to try and match the AFR table. This only really only works well at fairly constant load as ECU cannot react quickly enough to adjust the fuelling during heavy acceleration and deceleration.
You will see from the settings (EGO control in Basic settings) that there are certain areas on the map that ego control is disabled. I currently have EGO control switched off as, but the default settings originally were:
- Active above 600 rpm
- Active above coolant temp 71 degC
- Active below TPS 70%
So basically you need the VE table to be pretty much spot on regardless of whether you are running in closed loop or not.
Autotune is used for tuning the VE table and I wouldn’t consider this to be true closed loop as it isn't directly controlling the fuelling, even if you have it set to automatically update the controller, which I wouldn't recommend.
As mentioned before go for a drive with auto tune activated and monitor the recommended changes and accept them if you are happy, then repeat. You will need the engine to be up to normal operating temperature to do this as the software doesn’t compensate for warm-up enrichments which could be active up to about 75 – 80 deg.
You can set filters under advanced settings so that the software ignores certain data, e.g. below 72 degC and 1000 RPM. Additionally you can limit the maximum cell value or percentage change which is definitely required if you have it set to automatically update the controller as you drive.
Autotune works very differently to EGO control as it effectively logs data and only updates the VE table when it has enough data adjust the map so it isn't strictly closed loop. The amount of data required before it makes a change can be adjusted by adjusting the cell change resistance under advanced settings.
If you also want to use the VE analyser function in megalog viewer it is important to save you tunes files and corresponding log files.
Edited by angus99 on Monday 15th April 23:29
Edited by angus99 on Monday 15th April 23:31
Am I getting close ..
The megalog viewer means nothing to me, just squiggly lines ,but I like watching them .
Edited by SILICONEKID350HP on Monday 15th April 23:50
SILICONEKID350HP said:
I`m talking about the VE table ,is that the pulse width which changes the amount or time or width the injectors are open . I thought the auto tune reads the Lamabda feed back then changes the VE table to get close as possible to the target afr..
Am I getting close ..
The megalog viewer means nothing to me, just squiggly lines ,but I like watching them .
Yep the Auto tune monitors and logs the AFR output readings as you drive and then calculates a new values in the areas of the map that it has data for. Its pretty much impossible to cover the whole map while driving so you will have to do some smoothing later. Am I getting close ..
The megalog viewer means nothing to me, just squiggly lines ,but I like watching them .
To see how megalogviewer works, open a log file and then click on 'Open Tune File' and open the corresponding tune file.
Next click on 'VE analyser'. The right hand side (advanced settings) shows the filters you can set, AFR offset and cell change resistance.
If you click 'run analysis it will adjust the VE table in a very similar way to autotune. If you then click 'update table' it will overrite the table in tuner studio with the new settings, so don't do this unless you are sure you are happy with it. Next time you plug the laptop into the ECU it will give you the option to use the cuurent Controller (ECU) settings or the new Tuner Studio settings.
Neal gave me a VERY old IBM thinkpad that looks like its been thrown across the room a few times. It has very little software on it, never gets connected to the interweb and is only used for MS and the car. Connects via an old school serial cable and works a treat.
Keep up with the inane questions and techy answers people. I am taking notes.
Keep up with the inane questions and techy answers people. I am taking notes.
about 1982 then 
..... 
sorry couldn't resist 
New fuel injectors now fitted, despite the minor drama of loosing an injector O'ring inside the inlet manifold.
Got the car booked in for a mapping session on Tuesday so need to get a bsic map working over the weekend. To start with I was going to scale down the fuel required under basic settings in order to get the car running and then get some basic mapping done.
Calulation for required fuel as follows, does this make sense?
Current Fuel required =18.3 Injector Capacity = 19lb/hr @ 2.5 bar
New injectors 30lb/hr at 3 bar, Equavalent to 30x(2.5/3)^0.5 = 27.4 lb/h at 2.5 bar
New Fuel required = 19/27.4*18.3 = 12.7.
Got the car booked in for a mapping session on Tuesday so need to get a bsic map working over the weekend. To start with I was going to scale down the fuel required under basic settings in order to get the car running and then get some basic mapping done.
Calulation for required fuel as follows, does this make sense?
Current Fuel required =18.3 Injector Capacity = 19lb/hr @ 2.5 bar
New injectors 30lb/hr at 3 bar, Equavalent to 30x(2.5/3)^0.5 = 27.4 lb/h at 2.5 bar
New Fuel required = 19/27.4*18.3 = 12.7.
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