What did you do in the garage yesterday?
Discussion
ChimpOnGas said:
bobfather said:
Being an engineer I worry about this solution. Thermal insulation such as used here does not prevent thermal transmission, it delays it. On a long enough journey thermal equilibrium will occur meaning that the temperature of the HT lead will eventually equal the temperature of the outside surface of the insulation. For this solution to work there must be a means by which heat that has penetrated the insulation can escape.
I have been running socks and standard Lucas leads for the past 4k miles including two long distance touring holidays. On inspection of my leads a couple of months ago during a spark plug change they showed no signs of heat hardening. I use socks without additional insulation packing. When pulled tight to the rocker cover an air gap occurs between the sock and the lead on the hot side of the sock. This allows a natural thermal exchange of air which sweeps the hot inner sock with cooling air thus preventing thermal equilibrium from occurring.
Thanks for your concern bobfather but you needn't worry, being an engineer you'll know the best may to prove if something works is to test it up to and beyond it's normal expected operation conditions.I have been running socks and standard Lucas leads for the past 4k miles including two long distance touring holidays. On inspection of my leads a couple of months ago during a spark plug change they showed no signs of heat hardening. I use socks without additional insulation packing. When pulled tight to the rocker cover an air gap occurs between the sock and the lead on the hot side of the sock. This allows a natural thermal exchange of air which sweeps the hot inner sock with cooling air thus preventing thermal equilibrium from occurring.
To this end I think there can be no question I've done just that, my system has been tested and tested over the last two years with more than double your 4,000 miles under their belt and shown zero signs of failure.
On the other hand prior my double wrapped arrangement the Magnecore leads I ran using the "just a heat sock" method was a completely different story.
The above real world experience was the very reason I went to double wrapping and this current double wrapped system has seen some proper punishing testing that has included four hours of continuous LPG driving followed by a quick gas fill and a second similar four and a half hour run, both virtually back to back sessions totalling just well over 8 hours and 587 miles of driving which included a number of shocking 37 degree stop start French traffic jams the likes of which would make a UK jam seem like child's play.
The only rest they got was the 40 minute stop to fill with LPG, take a pee and eat a sandwich, to be honest I expect the leads got as hot as they even got during that stop due to zero air flow and huge heat soak. I don't think I can test my set up any harder than that, I was certainly frazzled at the end of the day even if my leads weren't, with this type of extreme testing under their belt I'm 100% confident I've created a reliable solution to those dreadful extenders.
I'm also 100% sure just using a sock is inferior, and I have the evidence to prove it.
If my system was going to fail it would have done so by now, LPG is also massively more punishing on all the ignition components than petrol and especially hard on HT leads, so while I appreciate your concern you can sleep easy safe in the knowledge I've pushed my double wrapped system well beyond the levels others have tested their "just a sock" arrangement at.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
CHIMV8 500 said:
This is want you want,details of contacts in the thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Completely agree, remove all the soft rubbery parts that suffer heat damage and the problem is solved. This will be my next HT lead choicehttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
bobfather said:
CHIMV8 500 said:
This is want you want,details of contacts in the thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Completely agree, remove all the soft rubbery parts that suffer heat damage and the problem is solved. This will be my next HT lead choicehttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
CHIMV8 500 said:
This is want you want,details of contacts in the thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks Mark, the Accel Ceramic HT leads look nice but I solved the problem in my own way over two years ago and have completely proved the effectiveness & reliability of my system. So I'm not sure why I'd want to replace my completely proven double wrapped system using the extremely high quality MSD Super Conductor HT leads I made up with coil pack ends to go to my MSD EDIS Mustang coil packs?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My chosen MSD Super Conductor HT leads consistently come out on top when reviewed back to back with other brands including Accel, I've put these MSD leads to the ultimate punishing test by running them on HT lead destroying LPG in the challenging TVR manifold environment using 40,000v MSD performance coil packs on wasted spark which means double the spark events per cycle than the feeble 20,000v single canister coil and distributor standard ignition system.
Compared with a standard TVR ignition system burning petrol I'm literally doubling the punishment my set up must endure, if what I created over two years ago can tolerate what I'm putting it through with total proven long term reliability it would take a very strong argument for me to change.
Indeed if others wanted to take the opportunity replace their failure prone extenders with something that's been completely pushed massively beyond the limits their leads will ever endure they might want to consider copying my two year proven recipe?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=143...
The Accel leads look fine, but no one will convince me they have tested them to the degree I've put my double wrapped MSD Super Conductor system through, unless that is.... they can prove they've done more than my two years and over 10,000 miles on wasted spark burning ignition component destroying LPG.... as I have
The Accel leads look fine, but no one will convince me they have tested them to the degree I've put my double wrapped MSD Super Conductor system through, unless that is.... they can prove they've done more than my two years and over 10,000 miles on wasted spark burning ignition component destroying LPG.... as I have
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you may have a point here Dave. I have recently decided to change my plugs after 15000 km,s of use {they were changed when the Accel leads were fitted}
I had so much trouble removing these leads that i was worried i would break the ceramic caps {even though i fitted them with dielectric grease}. after tying string around the elbow of the cap to get a straight pull on it and bending up a wire hook to get under the plug end of the cap i got them off. some of them actually pulled the end off the lead in the process!! for some reason the clips that snap on to the plug are ridiculously tight and the soft silicone lead just can't handle the force needed to remove them. my solution was to remove all leads from their ceramic caps {they are glued in so had to shorten them a bit} stretch the clips a little so they aren't so ridiculously tight on the plugs and refit them with the ceramic part free to slide up the lead. now to remove them i can slide up the ceramic portion and grab the metal part to pull it off without stressing the silicone lead. the ceramic parts look like new so thats good but unless Accel intend these leads be renewed with every plug change? then more product development needed.
Don't know what all the fuss is about with plug leads. Over 2,000 miles with these ones that Powers fitted with the socks and absolutely no issues at all. The discolouration on number 2 sock is not heat damage. It was failure of the original gaskets before I fitted the reinforced steel type.
And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
Swapped out 4 of the spark plugs today - I bought the wrong size uj so did the ones I could access - for some NGK Iridium ones. Checked the HT leads at the cap and a couple were loose so sorted that.
Wendy was definitely in need of a service! Running much sweeter now and only part way through the service.
Weather permitting, I'll change the gear linkage bushes and adjust the handbrake on Thursday. After that its the front light electrics and fluids change.
Wendy was definitely in need of a service! Running much sweeter now and only part way through the service.
Weather permitting, I'll change the gear linkage bushes and adjust the handbrake on Thursday. After that its the front light electrics and fluids change.
N7GTX said:
Don't know what all the fuss is about with plug leads. Over 2,000 miles with these ones that Powers fitted with the socks and absolutely no issues at all. The discolouration on number 2 sock is not heat damage. It was failure of the original gaskets before I fitted the reinforced steel type.
And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
That's because of the large air gap .Can you tell me the internal diameter thanks .And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
Have you still got the metal plug extenders fitted ?
N7GTX said:
Don't know what all the fuss is about with plug leads. Over 2,000 miles with these ones that Powers fitted with the socks and absolutely no issues at all. The discolouration on number 2 sock is not heat damage. It was failure of the original gaskets before I fitted the reinforced steel type.
And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
And, no I don't drive it like my granny...
QBee said:
No, the point is he has replaced them with fibreglass socks
The sock/boot is more of a shield rather than a replacement for the extender is it not ?Anyway, when i had my Turbo installation done the installer did exactly the same with socks/boots i had purchased from Thermal Velocity, when it went on the dyno to be mapped they failed, started to burn. One of the leads was arking inside the sock/boot and on inspection the lead had melted. All leads were new.
Before you ask, the boots were not in contact with the manifold or anything else, the only contact was on the inside where the lead touched the boot. The installer removed the socks/boots and replaced damaged lead and re-fitted the plug extenders and didn't have a problem after doing so. Where they are discoloured they are very soft as though any coating has burnt off.
This is the description fro the Thermal Velocity website
http://www.textiletechnologies.co.uk/spark-plug-in...
Spark Plug Insulator
Spark Plugs Boots offer the same high temperature protection in an easy slip on sleeve that will extend the life of expensive spark plug wires by protecting them where they need it most at the boot.
Just slip these 3/4” diameter double thickness (triple thick at the sewn end) sleeves over any spark plug cable and boot (even right angle boots) to protect them from engine temperatures up to 650°C.
Once installed, the sleeves require no clearance from hot surfaces, and can even rest directly on hot exhaust headers without affecting performance.
Spark Plug Boot Sleeves are completely non-conductive, resist all engine chemicals, will not support combustion, and provide an easy, economical solution to the challenge of wire protection in the cramped, high temperature environment of any high performance engine compartment.
Any thoughts on this ?
QBee said:
Some time tomorrow I will take mine off the car and take a photo. Mine have been on for about 5000 miles now, following the failure of 6 of my new plug extenders. No misfires, no issues of which I am aware, car has done 4 track days during that time.
Where were your socks/boots purchased and what leads are you using, out of interest. Although my leads have been good without the socks.Thermal Velocity did give me a refund by the way, which i thought was very good
davetripletvr said:
Any thoughts on this ?
Thats how mine went and are now in the bin. I`m currently on the normal extenders and have been for a couple of years now, with fortunately no problems.May well give them another go though as the extenders are a potential area for concern as we all know. Maybe there are good socks and bad socks.
I bought these from Hong Kong. Took 3 weeks to arrive, but have been good.
http://www.banggood.com/Black-Heat-Protector-Spark...
I think my leads are just the standard dark grey ones....I did have some pale blue Lumenition leads, but changed them back when problem solving previously. Cannot remember what the issue was.
http://www.banggood.com/Black-Heat-Protector-Spark...
I think my leads are just the standard dark grey ones....I did have some pale blue Lumenition leads, but changed them back when problem solving previously. Cannot remember what the issue was.
Edited by QBee on Sunday 28th August 16:57
carsy said:
Thats how mine went and are now in the bin. I`m currently on the normal extenders and have been for a couple of years now, with fortunately no problems.
May well give them another go though as the extenders are a potential area for concern as we all know. Maybe there are good socks and bad socks.
Yes, my thouhgts are the same. I purchased them because i thought they were a good idea, but to fail on the 1st real test which was on the dyno put me off, perhaps you are right about good and bad ones. There are a lot of chinese copies for everything these days, although these were not cheap and from a UK companyMay well give them another go though as the extenders are a potential area for concern as we all know. Maybe there are good socks and bad socks.
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