Chimaera 450 SC Problem

[maxxander]

portzi said:

BarnFind said:

450Nick said:

Check the supercharger is getting a proper supply of traction oil - if it does not have enough oil, it will not produce boost. If it is getting oil then check your re-circ valve spring. If it is giving out too early then it will dump boost back to the charger plenum. Lovely looking build though by the way - you've got almost exactly the same spec engine as mine (even the same colour car!)

What is the colour ?

all l can say is keep the pictures coming. lf you have had a full body off rebuild then this could be truely the best chimaera out there, maybe surpassing engineer johns rebuild , but only by body colour. rolex blue or reflex purple, or a house of kolor special maybe ??. wonderful TVR porn

mark

Very kind words but not on the same level as engineer johns. I have loads more pics that I can bore you with if you like

[Richard 858]

Anthony, I too have a 450 which I've just fitted the SC500 kit to, but as I haven't quite finished some tweaks I have no boost or power comparisons to make (and mine's not as pretty as yours !).
The advice regarding the forge (dump) valve spring concerns me a little as when I asked SC Power about what & how to fit the spring supplied they told me not to bother ! The advice previosly on this thread suggests that without a spring mine will just be dumping nearly all the boost back to the pre-charger (secondary) plenum. I'm now confused

[Hoofa]

Send me a pm and I'll be happy to chat if u want as it's easier that flipping typing, it's took me 4 years to get it running correctly

And make sure you have wired for sequential injection

Also dump the trumpets go for a blended base from Jools

Edited by Hoofa on Wednesday 30th April 21:09

Edited by Hoofa on Wednesday 30th April 21:13

[portzi]

maxxander said:

Very kind words but not on the same level as engineer johns. I have loads more pics that I can bore you with if you like

l think you should put them on, as l am sure many others would like to see .

[450Nick]

maxxander said:

Hi Nick, just checked your profile and they are virtually identical but don't worry I haven't pinched yours, mines in Rolex Blue (purple). By the way, love your car. In answer to your questions, traction oil was pressurised to 15PSI and levels checked pre start and after running up - all seems good on that front. Your concerns about the re-circ valve are definitely worth checking out.

As well as pressurising the oil and checking the level, I would remove the return line from the reservoir and make sure it it returning oil into a container. If there was a blockage in the line, or in the oil filter or cooler then you may have pressured it and have a good level but it may not be circulating.

To check the recirc valve, ideally you would make up a method of getting shop air into the system post charger. At max boost level (around 15psi at a guess), the recirc valve will dump and you'll hear it rush into the secondary plenum.

[450Nick]

Richard 858 said:

Anthony, I too have a 450 which I've just fitted the SC500 kit to, but as I haven't quite finished some tweaks I have no boost or power comparisons to make (and mine's not as pretty as yours !).
The advice regarding the forge (dump) valve spring concerns me a little as when I asked SC Power about what & how to fit the spring supplied they told me not to bother ! The advice previosly on this thread suggests that without a spring mine will just be dumping nearly all the boost back to the pre-charger (secondary) plenum. I'm now confused

There must be a misunderstanding there somewhere, if you're running a recirc valve then you obviously need a spring in it! They do offer updated springs which can hold more pressure before dumping which may be necessary if you're running higher boost, but a standard one should be plenty for most setups.

[Mr Supercharged]

Nick is correct, you need to make sure there is a flow of oil through the blower. I replaced my oil bottle filler cap with a sump plug fitted with a tyre valve so that you can pressurise the the bottle with a bike pump, crack open the banjo fitting on the oil out side of the blower and observe oil coming out to confirm that the system is correctly bled right through.

If the blower is bled and is spinning it will produce boost. The next thing to check is to remove the inlet hose to the blower and visually confirm that the impeller is turning at speed. Maybe there is interference between the snail and the impeller. I believe that when the threaded boss is welded onto the snail it has been reported that distortion has occurred and this caused the impeller to foul with the snail and not turn!

If you have oil moving through the blower and the impeller is turning the next thing to do is to check for air leaks. But I must say you would hear these! If you want me to look at your car for you let me know and I will pop round if you're not a million miles away, regards....

[maxxander]

450Nick said:

maxxander said:

Hi Nick, just checked your profile and they are virtually identical but don't worry I haven't pinched yours, mines in Rolex Blue (purple). By the way, love your car. In answer to your questions, traction oil was pressurised to 15PSI and levels checked pre start and after running up - all seems good on that front. Your concerns about the re-circ valve are definitely worth checking out.

As well as pressurising the oil and checking the level, I would remove the return line from the reservoir and make sure it it returning oil into a container. If there was a blockage in the line, or in the oil filter or cooler then you may have pressured it and have a good level but it may not be circulating.

To check the recirc valve, ideally you would make up a method of getting shop air into the system post charger. At max boost level (around 15psi at a guess), the recirc valve will dump and you'll hear it rush into the secondary plenum.

Thanks for the Nick, I think you might be on to something. As I'm currently some distance away from the car I have brought this thread to the attention of the engine builder so he can try the things suggested thus far. Thanks again for taking the time to offer advice.

[maxxander]

Mr Supercharged said:

Nick is correct, you need to make sure there is a flow of oil through the blower. I replaced my oil bottle filler cap with a sump plug fitted with a tyre valve so that you can pressurise the the bottle with a bike pump, crack open the banjo fitting on the oil out side of the blower and observe oil coming out to confirm that the system is correctly bled right through.

If the blower is bled and is spinning it will produce boost. The next thing to check is to remove the inlet hose to the blower and visually confirm that the impeller is turning at speed. Maybe there is interference between the snail and the impeller. I believe that when the threaded boss is welded onto the snail it has been reported that distortion has occurred and this caused the impeller to foul with the snail and not turn!

If you have oil moving through the blower and the impeller is turning the next thing to do is to check for air leaks. But I must say you would hear these! If you want me to look at your car for you let me know and I will pop round if you're not a million miles away, regards....

Thanks for your thoughts, this all sounds very plausible. The car is currently in Wellington, Somerset so this may be a little too far to ask you to travel but I really appreciate the offer. Just as a matter of interest, if I ever get it running properly, what would you consider to be a reasonable power output?

[macdeb]

maxxander said:

So far the only comment is that they have supplied 80 plus so far and haven't had a problem and that it must be an installation error. Time will tell!

Crikey, a bit off handish? Thought they may at least give some pointers as to what it may be, still, s'pose your only the customer
Good luck mate, at least there are some helpful folk on here. [still can't believe suppliers response]
ETA that does NOT look like a shoddy install, demand some help! they don't do themselves any favours hence why I went a different route.

Edited by macdeb on Thursday 1st May 17:49

[LordGrover]

^^ Maybe worth asking them in writing/via email - may be handy to get their response in writing. Just in case.

[450Nick]

So how did the fault finding go? Has your engine builder managed to get it running correctly yet?

[maxxander]

450Nick said:

So how did the fault finding go? Has your engine builder managed to get it running correctly yet?

Sadly we don't seem to be any further forward. I spoke to him this morning and he's taken on board all the suggestions and is working through them. The dump valve was supplied with two springs, one yellow and one blue, I'm assuming these were for different pressures and he is going to swop them over. He is also going to drain down the hydraulic system and re pressurise it. Fingers crossed that one of these works. In an ideal world I would like to be able to measure the pressure direct from the supercharger before it makes its way into the intercooler but I have no idea how to do this. First thoughts were to make a bung to go in the end of the pipe with a tyre valve screwed into the end but on second thoughts this would probably give completely spurious readings. Any suggestions as to how I could get an accurate reading would be very gratefully received.

[Hoofa]

I actually fitted a different dump valve as the forge dump valve piston was fouling on closing, there is nothing to guide the piston back into its closed position. As it closes under high boost the piston hits the side and doesn't shut and it's not central as boost pressure forces the piston on the piss. Think I have a pic somewhere that tells the story. Took ages to find that one .


And you have fitted a uprated air filter ?, I also dumped the plenum box as that was a waste of time.so was the trumpet base, gained some more torque in the mid range back to back testing.

Also did a 8 rib belt conversion on all pulleys , this is because rotrex is running a 8 rib pulley. Now no belt slip or squealing.

Yes i did change the tensioner before the conversion. Your running the biggest charger.

Edited by Hoofa on Friday 2nd May 17:02

Edited by Hoofa on Friday 2nd May 17:04

[Mr Supercharged]

maxxander said:

Thanks for your thoughts, this all sounds very plausible. The car is currently in Wellington, Somerset so this may be a little too far to ask you to travel but I really appreciate the offer. Just as a matter of interest, if I ever get it running properly, what would you consider to be a reasonable power output?

I'm in Gloucester, if you're still stuck let me know. With your set up you should be making well over 400 bhp, I have the baby 4ltr and running the C30 blower flat out at the top end and that makes good power with no engine mods.

As hoofa says, dump the recirc hose and the box behind the blower, you can do this beac use you are running the Omex 710 and presumably using a MAP sensor for load. The box behind the blower is only necessary when running the lucas 14CUX / AFM where all of the air passing through the AFM needs to be accounted for. Once you go MAP for load the ECU wont give a **** if you're dumping boost to atmosphere.

Here's the part I fitted, it tidies up the whole installation by de-cluttering.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PR...

fits perfect!

[chris watton]

Mr Supercharged said:

maxxander said:

Thanks for your thoughts, this all sounds very plausible. The car is currently in Wellington, Somerset so this may be a little too far to ask you to travel but I really appreciate the offer. Just as a matter of interest, if I ever get it running properly, what would you consider to be a reasonable power output?

I'm in Gloucester, if you're still stuck let me know. With your set up you should be making well over 400 bhp, I have the baby 4ltr and running the C30 blower flat out at the top end and that makes good power with no engine mods.

As hoofa says, dump the recirc hose and the box behind the blower, you can do this beac use you are running the Omex 710 and presumably using a MAP sensor for load. The box behind the blower is only necessary when running the lucas 14CUX / AFM where all of the air passing through the AFM needs to be accounted for. Once you go MAP for load the ECU wont give a **** if you're dumping boost to atmosphere.

Here's the part I fitted, it tidies up the whole installation by de-cluttering.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PR...

fits perfect!

You're not too far away from me - I'm in Cinderford! Wonder if we've ever seen you out in your Chim.....

[Mr Supercharged]

Possibly, don't often take the car out there.

[BarnFind]

dumping boost to atmosphere..doesn't that sound great !

[macdeb]

[maxxander]

Having trouble with the forum and get an error message every time I try to quote anyone, hoping that I can post without quoting. I've just got back from visiting the engine builder and we've decided to take a really basic approach to the fault finding. We are going to start by checking the boost as best we can at the SC outlet, if we are getting sufficient boost there we will move onto the next link in the chain and check boost at the intercooler outlet. If that's all good we will reconnect everything and go on to check the boost at the dump valve. I know this sounds very basic stuff but at least it will enable us to rule out the obvious.