Brakes upgrade....

[silverback mike]

Hi folks,
Although I'm tempted to keep my chim completely standard, the brakes as we all know are pretty woeful.
What sort of upgrade is available? is this a kit or would I have to ferkle about buying separate bits and bobs.
Thanks.
Mike.

[MPoxon]

For road use I found a decent set of pads (Ferrodo DS2500s), braided hoses and dot 5.1 fluid is a good upgrade and more than adequate for road use imo.

Since dong few track days I have found the standard setup lacking during continual use. I now have the Alcon setup from David Gerald on mine and was very impressed. A major selling point for me is the fact they fit under the standard 15" wheels so I can keep the standard look of the car.

http://www.davidgeraldtvr.com/parts2.asp

[900T-R]

MPoxon said:

For road use I found a decent set of pads (Ferrodo DS2500s), braided hoses and dot 5.1 fluid is a good upgrade and more than adequate for road use imo.

After that, slightly more stamina can be had from upgrading to some properly heat treated and grooved (not drilled) discs - which for a lot of drivers will be enough for occasional track use.

[NickM450]

900T-R said:

MPoxon said:

For road use I found a decent set of pads (Ferrodo DS2500s), braided hoses and dot 5.1 fluid is a good upgrade and more than adequate for road use imo.

After that, slightly more stamina can be had from upgrading to some properly heat treated and grooved (not drilled) discs - which for a lot of drivers will be enough for occasional track use.

I did both of the above. Braided lines, Super Blue 5.1 fluid, Black Diamond grooved and Black Diamond Predator pads. Stops like a good 'un, vast improvement over standard.

[pwd95]

WMS on mine. Much stronger than the standard setup & also fit under the 15" fronts...

http://www.wms-brakes.co.uk/

[SILICONEKID346HP]

If you want to keep it looking factory fit the Cossy upgrade ,cheap and you will be satisfied with the results.

All you need is the 887 888 calipers and carriers and 278 or 283 discs .

http://www.rv8r.co.uk/brakeupgrade.html

Calipers: Ford Granada/Scorpio Cosworth 24v Casting No.s 887 and 888 you will need one of each

Discs: Ford Sierra Cosworth 2WD 283mm x24mm


http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by SILICONEKID346HP on Wednesday 7th May 18:43

Edited by SILICONEKID346HP on Wednesday 7th May 18:51

[NickOrangeTVR]

silverback mike said:

Hi folks,
Although I'm tempted to keep my chim completely standard, the brakes as we all know are pretty woeful.
What sort of upgrade is available? is this a kit or would I have to ferkle about buying separate bits and bobs.
Thanks.
Mike.

Do you envisage using them on the track? if not you have lots of cheap options, if you want something that survives more than 4-5 laps on the track without melting you need to spend more.

One thing that people seem to ignore is they upgrade the front's only - if you want a balanced car they both need to be upgraded. I went for Hi-Spec, fully floating with 6 pot on the front.



See more here - http://tvrengineer.co.uk/2013/10/16/chimaera-hi-sp...

[Richard 858]

WMS fronts for me & plagiarised calipers(from John Halstead AKA Engineer 1949) Hi-spec rears, matching 300mm discs all supplied by Keri at WMS.

[Hoofa]

However hispec rears don't fit on a 500 just beware of that fact before anyone rushes off and orders one for their 500

[CHIMV8]

SILICONEKID346HP said:

If you want to keep it looking factory fit the Cossy upgrade ,cheap and you will be satisfied with the results.

All you need is the 887 888 calipers and carriers and 278 or 283 discs .

http://www.rv8r.co.uk/brakeupgrade.html

Calipers: Ford Granada/Scorpio Cosworth 24v Casting No.s 887 and 888 you will need one of each

Discs: Ford Sierra Cosworth 2WD 283mm x24mm


http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Daz,them calipers are heavy!!

Any effect on the PAS when driving??

Edited by SILICONEKID346HP on Wednesday 7th May 18:43

Edited by SILICONEKID346HP on Wednesday 7th May 18:51

[s p a c e m a n]

I'm doing the E38 4pot Brembos when I pull my finger out..

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129...

[zacherynuk]

Hi... sorry to ask such a daft question - but in what way are the breaks so poor ?

I have had comments from 911 owners saying the stopping is great in my little chim, and I have never had any situation where the breaks were giving out before the tyres and I find their progressiveness very easy to drive briskly with...

Is it purely a long haul track thing where they overheat, or what ?

Cheers

Zach

[SILICONEKID346HP]

CHIMV8 said:

Yes they are a bit heavy but they work well and for a guy who does not want to spend or who can`t afford to spend thousands it is a solution .

I agree the light weight one`s are better but for some owners it`s they are fine .

Think the WMS are my future choice with affordable off the shelf discs ,not convinced you need massive discs .

[Alexdaredevils]

s p a c e m a n said:

I'm doing the E38 4pot Brembos when I pull my finger out..

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129...

1+

[SILICONEKID346HP]

Alexdaredevils said:

1+

If i picked the Brembos up could you fit them for me ? with beer tokens cheers

[QBee]

I was perfectly happy with my standard brakes on the road.

But on track you need to be able to stop faster, and repeatedly, without fade.
Now have Bremsport 4 pot callipers on the front, 324mm Black Diamond 12-grooved discs and Hawk pads. Rears are standard except for Ferodo DS2500 pads (I don't find them imbalanced), and dot 5.1 fluid to avoid boiling it on track.

Needs 17inch wheels to accommodate the bigger set-up at the front.

[900T-R]

NickOrangeTVR said:

One thing that people seem to ignore is they upgrade the front's only - if you want a balanced car they both need to be upgraded. I went for Hi-Spec, fully floating with 6 pot on the front.

For road use, most cars seem to have the brake balance a bit too rear-biased so a modest front brake upsizing actually improves the balance.

For this reason I went with a combination of DS3000 pads (front) and DS2500 (rear) on OE size discs and std. calipers.

As this is a road car that hasn't seen any more than a few casual on-track laps at Zolder and recently at Zandvoort, I will only upgrade the front discs and calipers when I find a set up that reduces unsprung/rotating weight rather than adding to it.

I'd say with the solid rear discs you are 'safe' up to 285 mm front discs, the 273 mm vented rear discs of later models shouldn't be a problem with discs of up to the 304 mm of Tuscans et al...

This all is assuming that the brake cylinder sizing of your new calipers is within close range of the originals, of course.

One important note: the standard set up should NOT feel 'rubbish' or 'pathetic' other than not having very much capacity for repeated hard braking (4-5 moderately hard driven laps on an average track is indeed what you can expect it to cope with, given good pads and fluid). If you have any problems locking up your brakes under any (road) circumstances apart from repeated emergency braking, something is amiss with your brakes and needs to be investigated PDQ.

Also note that pattern parts from motor factors are really aimed at keeping 25 year old Sierras on the road at the lowest possible cost. You can get brake pads for £9 + VAT or something like that, but then don't go and complain that the standard brake set up is 'pathetic'...

[spend]

It always amuses me how many owners say their upgrades 'are good enough'......

....until they actually get better ones...

...then they are 'superb' trailing off to just 'good enough'


So much talk about power / handling... but I am convinced even on the road brakes will make you faster from A-B in time/value against the others IYSWIM. Having confidence not just to stop, but feel the brakes without fear of grabbing/fade makes a massive difference IMHO. At the end of the day even very expensive braking is quite cheap compared to what can be spent on engines & dampers?

I can never understand some owners, raving on about expensive dampers and then advocating minimal brake upgrade? As soon as you start looking at alloy bits (even if just for unsprung weight consideration) the calipers / bells / rotors start getting expensive so why would you not improve the performance. Also seems folks get obsessed with disk size, which makes sense, but the extra size means weight, and even with alloy bells & rotors you cant get smaller swept area. Would seem nice to be able get the extra leverage without the penalty of keeping iron in the middle, pretty sure bikes have this sorted but don't see much on cars?

[900T-R]

spend said:

I can never understand some owners, raving on about expensive dampers and then advocating minimal brake upgrade?

A quick and dispassionate SWOT analysis of the Chim/Griff by any road test driver would always mention the lack of overall composure on less than completely smooth roads (and resulting sudden breakaway characteristics if on the edge of the grip envelope) as the first thing (as every single professional road test report I've read so far does) while for road driving the brakes would be well down the list or not even on it.

Being a lightweight car on a smallish footprint (and a short wheelbase for its width to boot) with relatively sturdy (heavy) mechanicals and loads of easily accessible torque from the engine, provision of finely tuned damping that if possible discriminates between high- and low speed oscillations becomes critical. You want low spring rates for traction and predictability, but on the other hand body control at high speeds and sharp turn-in charcteristics - a dichotomy that to me personally was only satisfactorily met when I upgraded my already rather expensive Intrax 1K2 Black Titan units with their Anti-Roll Control system.

Brakes are a bit more straightforward and the ratio between expenditure and subjective results (for road driving) hasn't been all that convincing so far - professional drivers have commented quite complimentary on my OEM-based brake set up while owners of other cars with caliper and disc size upgrades regularly report problems with brake feel, vibrations et cetera that the suppliers seem to be unable to solve to complete satisfaction. Hence my present reluctance to go past the current 'stage 1' upgrade which does what it says on the tin and IME is entirely adequate for road use.

That, and all of the upgrades listed so far make the main problem with the car actually worse by adding kgs of unsprung weight... Carbon ceramic discs would help, but 283 mm ones are still £3K a corner

Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 8th May 12:04

[Podie]

We have the 887/888 calipers at the front (remanufactured by BiggRed), Pagid blues all round, Ford discs and braided hoses with decent fluid.

More than adequate for road use, on a non-PAS car - IMO.