Discussion
ChimpOnGas said:
If you have a serpentine engine its not unknown for the oil pump to fracture, in this case the pump will still make pressure just not much..
Does it look like this Daz?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh5DnOjpNpY
A quick search on the interweb shows its not that uncommon
The plate which sits on top of the oil pump is scoured and the cover where it sits .. The crank shells have some scours which you can feel with your nail and in one area worn through ,i can see a copper colour metal .
The crank it self is fine .
The crank shells are on order with a new pump and pressure relief valve .The timing cover and plate is going to be cleaned up .
I`m not going to take any chances ,the oil filter will be secured via a jubbalee clip .
We can`t work out why the oil filter let go ,the filter does not foul anything when screwed in .
ll i can say is i could see the rubber seal hanging out the side of the filter .
This damage was caused by running with no oil for a short time then what made it worse driving back 78miles .
When i got home and turned the engine off then the oil pressure valve locked closed ,it was clogged ,blocked with something from the timing cover .
I`m feeling a bit sick .
The crank it self is fine .
The crank shells are on order with a new pump and pressure relief valve .The timing cover and plate is going to be cleaned up .
I`m not going to take any chances ,the oil filter will be secured via a jubbalee clip .
We can`t work out why the oil filter let go ,the filter does not foul anything when screwed in .
ll i can say is i could see the rubber seal hanging out the side of the filter .
This damage was caused by running with no oil for a short time then what made it worse driving back 78miles .
When i got home and turned the engine off then the oil pressure valve locked closed ,it was clogged ,blocked with something from the timing cover .
I`m feeling a bit sick .
SILICONEKIDOBHP said:
The plate which sits on top of the oil pump is scoured and the cover where it sits .. The crank shells have some scours which you can feel with your nail and in one area worn through ,i can see a copper colour metal .
The crank it self is fine .
The crank shells are on order with a new pump and pressure relief valve .The timing cover and plate is going to be cleaned up .
I`m not going to take any chances ,the oil filter will be secured via a jubbalee clip .
We can`t work out why the oil filter let go ,the filter does not foul anything when screwed in .
ll i can say is i could see the rubber seal hanging out the side of the filter .
This damage was caused by running with no oil for a short time then what made it worse driving back 78miles .
When i got home and turned the engine off then the oil pressure valve locked closed ,it was clogged ,blocked with something from the timing cover .
I`m feeling a bit sick .
I feel your pain Daz, my deepest sympathies mate but it does all sound recoverable as the crank journals aren't scored.The crank it self is fine .
The crank shells are on order with a new pump and pressure relief valve .The timing cover and plate is going to be cleaned up .
I`m not going to take any chances ,the oil filter will be secured via a jubbalee clip .
We can`t work out why the oil filter let go ,the filter does not foul anything when screwed in .
ll i can say is i could see the rubber seal hanging out the side of the filter .
This damage was caused by running with no oil for a short time then what made it worse driving back 78miles .
When i got home and turned the engine off then the oil pressure valve locked closed ,it was clogged ,blocked with something from the timing cover .
I`m feeling a bit sick .
Good luck with it, Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
I feel your pain Daz, my deepest sympathies mate but it does all sound recoverable as the crank journals aren't scored.
Good luck with it, Dave.
Thanks Dave .. The big question is why did i have 6 litres of oil on the floor in seconds ? it ran for probably 10 seconds with no oil in and after new oil and filter the pressure read 55 all the way home .Good luck with it, Dave.
I can`t blame anyone ,we have looked at it in detail with the front cover on the bench ,the oil filter is clear of the sandwich plate castings and thermostat retaining nut .nut . Its a top quality filter ..
Why Why Why
The filter seal popped out one side and it was all over in seconds .
What make of filter and did it have a relief valve? Just wondering if the engine relief valve stuck for some reason and then the pressure through the filter exceeded the capacity of the seal to stay in place...?
Didn't you make some changes to the pressure switch and add a pressure sender on the timing cover side?
Didn't you make some changes to the pressure switch and add a pressure sender on the timing cover side?
Pupp said:
What make of filter and did it have a relief valve? Just wondering if the engine relief valve stuck for some reason and then the pressure through the filter exceeded the capacity of the seal to stay in place...?
Didn't you make some changes to the pressure switch and add a pressure sender on the timing cover side?
This is an extremely good point Didn't you make some changes to the pressure switch and add a pressure sender on the timing cover side?
Oil filters should have a simple bypass valve, the idea is if the filter becomes blocked the engine will still receive lubrication.
The problem is not oil filters are created equal, some simply don't have the bypass valve.
The consequence of a blocked oil filter with no bypass valve would be a build up of oil under pressure that would find the easiest path to atmosphere, in this case the oil filter seal.
The flat rubber oil filter seal is not designed to hold back pressure, it's only there to seal the filter against the machined face of the block.
Oil pumps don't really create massive pressure but they can shift a lot of volume, so if the escape path is big enough 6 litres of oil would be on the floor in no time.
Do an autopsy on that oil filter Daz and see what you find.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 11th July 14:44
Daz, you said "55 psi all the way home".
On what gauge? TVR one?
I am lucky if mine shows 30 psi when hot, so if yours was reading similarly to mine then you maybe had, as said above, excessive pressure which found the easiest way out, ie via the filter seal ring?
So make sure you have a relief valve that works and maybe it won't happen again?
Good luck mate - we still need to do that evening track event at Cadwell Park when you have a properly working car, to decide who's the quicker combination of car and driver...27th August looks favourite.
On what gauge? TVR one?
I am lucky if mine shows 30 psi when hot, so if yours was reading similarly to mine then you maybe had, as said above, excessive pressure which found the easiest way out, ie via the filter seal ring?
So make sure you have a relief valve that works and maybe it won't happen again?
Good luck mate - we still need to do that evening track event at Cadwell Park when you have a properly working car, to decide who's the quicker combination of car and driver...27th August looks favourite.
I can see it pushing the oil seal out of a flat face joint.. but the seal is in a recess in the filter.. it would have to bend out the rolled lip to escape... massive pressure required??
.
On the shell thats down to copper.. can you tell if thats just happened or has that gone like that over time?... Is the copper shiny?...
.
On the shell thats down to copper.. can you tell if thats just happened or has that gone like that over time?... Is the copper shiny?...
An oil filter seal/ring sitting in that recess could cope with 200 psi with ease IMO and your pump did not chew up in such short time Daz those gears would be quite happy running on a minimal film of oil without damage (even aerated) and your engine would of seized way before that kind of damage relative to scored up/worn gears that takes thousands of miles with knackered contaminated oil i.e cam lobe material floating around the sump many filters shipped dont have the seal ring seated fully home (yes even good ones) and this should always be checked before fitting inc making sure that on removal of old filter that the seal is still located on the used/old filter rather than sitting on the front cover/sandwich plate etc I have seen this on various makes of vehicles over the years more times than I care to remember 
many filters shipped dont have the seal ring seated fully home (yes even good ones) and this should always be checked before fitting inc making sure that on removal of old filter that the seal is still located on the used/old filter rather than sitting on the front cover/sandwich plate etc I have seen this on various makes of vehicles over the years more times than I care to remember QBee said:
Daz, you said "55 psi all the way home".
On what gauge? TVR one?
I am lucky if mine shows 30 psi when hot, so if yours was reading similarly to mine then you maybe had, as said above, excessive pressure which found the easiest way out, ie via the filter seal ring?
So make sure you have a relief valve that works and maybe it won't happen again?
Good luck mate - we still need to do that evening track event at Cadwell Park when you have a properly working car, to decide who's the quicker combination of car and driver...27th August looks favourite.
The oil pressure sender was recently purchased from the TVR shop ,it supposed to be an OE one and cost enough .On what gauge? TVR one?
I am lucky if mine shows 30 psi when hot, so if yours was reading similarly to mine then you maybe had, as said above, excessive pressure which found the easiest way out, ie via the filter seal ring?
So make sure you have a relief valve that works and maybe it won't happen again?
Good luck mate - we still need to do that evening track event at Cadwell Park when you have a properly working car, to decide who's the quicker combination of car and driver...27th August looks favourite.
http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/tvr-car-part-n0126...
The oil pressure relief jammed closed because some material from the cover got trapped .
TVR Beaver said:
I can see it pushing the oil seal out of a flat face joint.. but the seal is in a recess in the filter.. it would have to bend out the rolled lip to escape... massive pressure required??
.
On the shell thats down to copper.. can you tell if thats just happened or has that gone like that over time?... Is the copper shiny?...
One tiny area . .
On the shell thats down to copper.. can you tell if thats just happened or has that gone like that over time?... Is the copper shiny?...
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