Magnecore Leads

[SILICONEKIDOBHP]

Most people buy Magnecores because they come in colours which make the engine bay look nice .

Genuine Lucas ones are black so less desirable.

[ChimpOnGas]

macdeb]Please explain [I genuinely want to learn] how an electric current travelling down a lead [any lead said:

would know what fuel is being used?

Oh dear, here we go.

Of course an HT lead had no idea what fuel is being used but as I said earlier LPG is harder to strike than petrol.

This puts significantly more load on the whole ignition system not just the leads, all this is very well understood & documented if you care to do a little research.

HT lead, plug & coil failures are all far more common on vehicles converted to LPG which is why extremely well respected companies such as NGK and Bosch market either LPG specific products or confirm their comparability with this fuel.

http://www.bosch.com.au/car_parts/en/html/2253.htm

http://ngkntk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/LPG...

http://www.lpgasmagazine.co.uk/ngk-fills-lp-gas-sp...

Read the NGK literature above it contains information of the different demands LPG places on the ignition system, this is not marketing hype but well understood proven factual information.

If you want to make what appears to be an sarcastic attack on what I've written then can I suggest you have a quick Google of the subject first.

More here...

http://hertsautotek.co.uk/lpg/

And here.......

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080...

And a thousand other places, but if you still don't believe me ask any qualified LPG installer and they'll tell you the same.

Even Magnecore talk about it, and even market their leads as the best you can use when burning LPG.

Shame the quality & performance doesn't match the marketing hype

[Sardonicus]

SILICONEKIDOBHP said:

The heat socks have trapped the heat !

Thats rubbish, read my last post Daz I did this to confirm what I had read previously but curiosity got the better of me the quality socks work ...... FACT . Dave as just been a casualty of overrated claims about a product we live & learn.

[portzi]

Had my Magnecores on for at least 4 years!!!. With extenders. Perhaps the blue leads with black shrounds last the longest?

Mark

[TV8]

I had no trouble with my blue ones on my last car but I have had a couple of the red ones needing changing on this car. I am not sure how old they are on this car though as they were on the car when I bought it. Changed FOC but I did think it a bit off message.

Are the reds different spec to the blue?

[blitzracing]

Yes- they go black - blue - red depending on Peak HT, suppression requirements, and core resistance.

As for the question about the HT load with different fuels- its reasonably simple. The insulation fuel air mix has a a "dielectric" value before it brakes down and allows an arc. So when the HT spike starts to rise it climbs as the plug gap is open circuit- but when it reaches the point the dielectric value of the fuel air is reached an arc is formed it effectively becomes a low resistance path. So what you see at the plug tip is an HT voltage that rises to say 8kv before it suddenly drops to say 2kv as the arc starts. With LPG this insulation value is much higher so the HT might rise to say 15kv before the arc can be established, hence stressing the leads. If you monitor HT voltages they vary wildly depending not just the fuel type, but the compression (ie throttle opening) as well as this changes the dielectric value.

[phazed]

These are what I use on both cars, one with socks and one without.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Accel-Ignition-Lead-Kit-...

I'm fairly certain that it's the 8mm ones, Sardonicus will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sardonicus]

phazed said:

These are what I use on both cars, one with socks and one without.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Accel-Ignition-Lead-Kit-...

I'm fairly certain that it's the 8mm ones, Sardonicus will correct me if I'm wrong.

I have the slightly different spec ones with the flexi ends you just bend them to the angle you require apparently from reading up on the old inter-web those boots will with stand silly temps but I covered them with socks anyway I custom fitted these with the Ford barbed coil pack ends and they were lovely to work with and felt nice quality hence why I past on the info to Phazed/Peter Oh yeh nearly forgot these are for 16mm rather than 18mm spark plugs so you have more plug choice into the deal my current ones are NGK BCPR7E I don't use extenders either just my cents nothing gospel

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 21st July 08:58

[ChimpOnGas]

phazed said:

These are what I use on both cars, one with socks and one without.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Accel-Ignition-Lead-Kit-...

I'm fairly certain that it's the 8mm ones, Sardonicus will correct me if I'm wrong.

They look good Peter, did they come with Ford coil pack connectors or did you buy them separately?

I'm tempted to go MSD as I've always rated their ignition components.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MSD-8-5mm-S-C-8-Cylinder...

They have flexible ends that can be individually angled away from the exhaust manifold, each one can be adjusted so it's angled in exactly the best position.

But to be honest I'm less concerned about heat than I am about finding a lead that can cope with extra ignition loads when burning LPG.

As I've said before I've ran Magnecores when I was on the standard ignition system burning petrol and had no issue with them whatsoever, burning LPG on wasted spark is massively more demanding on leads though so it would seem they have to be really high spec & quality to last longer than 6 months.

If I go with the universal MSD set I'll also need to find the Ford EDIS (hook type) fittings for the coil packs, wasn't there a MegaSquirt guy selling them, just can't find him right now

Can someone kindly point me to the hook type EDIS coil end connectors?

Cheers, Dave.

[macdeb]

ChimpOnGas said:

macdeb]Please explain [I genuinely want to learn] how an electric current travelling down a lead [any lead said:

would know what fuel is being used?

Oh dear, here we go.


If you want to make what appears to be an sarcastic attack on what I've written then can I suggest you have a quick Google of the subject first.

Wind yer neck in! It was intended as a genuine question about something I don't know.

[macdeb]

blitzracing said:

As for the question about the HT load with different fuels- its reasonably simple. The insulation fuel air mix has a a "dielectric" value before it brakes down and allows an arc. So when the HT spike starts to rise it climbs as the plug gap is open circuit- but when it reaches the point the dielectric value of the fuel air is reached an arc is formed it effectively becomes a low resistance path. So what you see at the plug tip is an HT voltage that rises to say 8kv before it suddenly drops to say 2kv as the arc starts. With LPG this insulation value is much higher so the HT might rise to say 15kv before the arc can be established, hence stressing the leads. If you monitor HT voltages they vary wildly depending not just the fuel type, but the compression (ie throttle opening) as well as this changes the dielectric value.

Thanks Blitz', a sensible informative reply.
I've learned something new.

[ChimpOnGas]

Ha Simon's simultaneous post looks a bit like mine

Simon, can you help me get this whole lead thing sorted mate?

If I supplied you with a universal MSD set, my lead lengths and the coil pack ends could you make me up a set?

I'd be very grateful for your help.

Kind regards, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

macdeb said:

ChimpOnGas said:

macdeb]Please explain [I genuinely want to learn] how an electric current travelling down a lead [any lead said:

would know what fuel is being used?

Oh dear, here we go.


If you want to make what appears to be an sarcastic attack on what I've written then can I suggest you have a quick Google of the subject first.

Wind yer neck in! It was intended as a genuine question about something I don't know.

Shame it came across as terribly sarcastic then, perhaps reconsider your phrasing in future?

[Sardonicus]

macdeb said:

Thanks Blitz', a sensible informative reply.
I've learned something new.

Hence why you should not continue to use a car that as knackered leads or spark plugs or misfiring as the coil driver/ignition module gets over worked followed closely by the owner crying that they have suffered ignition failure not so good when the spark drivers are an integral part of an ECU like many modern cars & Emerald/Canems/Megasquirt/Motec etc etc before the introduction of coil on plug ignition anyway back on topic Dave if you give me 8 serviceable or a new set of Gen 2 Ford coil pack ends (I take it that's what your using) I will sort it out.

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 21st July 09:07

[macdeb]

ChimpOnGas said:

Shame it came across as terribly sarcastic then, perhaps reconsider your phrasing in future?

My phrasing???
Perhaps you should read the question.

[QBee]

ChimpOnGas said:

Shame it came across as terribly sarcastic then, perhaps reconsider your phrasing in future?

Never thought I would be jumping to Mac's defence, but I read his question as a genuine request for an explanation, just as he meant it. I too didn't see how the system knew which fuel was being used, but Blitz's response has taught me something I didn't know.

It also explains how a few years ago I ended up with a faulty coil pack on my LPG Saab, when I "accidentally" over-revved it when cold but just after the LPG had kicked in. (Note to self - warm the car up before showing off to bus queues )

[ianwayne]

As a bystander in this, it did seem to be a genuine question, although it could be read as slightly sarcastic. Especially since (as most people should know ), it's a high voltage path, the current (i.e. amperage) consumed is very low.

I've learned something myself regarding LPG though. I'd read somewhere that the engine runs slightly hotter.

[ChimpOnGas]

ianwayne said:

As a bystander in this, it did seem to be a genuine question, although it could be read as slightly sarcastic. Especially since (as most people should know ), it's a high voltage path, the current (i.e. amperage) consumed is very low.

I've learned something myself regarding LPG though. I'd read somewhere that the engine runs slightly hotter.

An engine may run hotter on LPG but that's only because most systems don't offer the opportunity to alter ignition advance when you switch fuels.

Get the timing right for LPG and the engine will actually run cooler, I have exhaust gas temperature probes on each bank so can see this in real time.

On petrol ERG sensors are an extremely useful tool when tuning for peak performance & economy, on LPG even more so.

The hotter running on LPG thing is yet another leftover from the days when LPG systems were very crude indeed, most of the negative stuff you still hear about LPG has been relegated to the history books by vastly more sophisticated fuel & ignition managements systems.

But the fact LPG is harder on ignition components remains, you can't beat the physics but you can fit components that can cope.

Petrol people really shouldn't worry too much if they have Magnecores, I ran these leads on petrol for a number of years with absolutely no issues whatsoever and I've witnessed them laying on the manifold with no scorching at all so they are definitely very heat resistant.

What they aren't is up to the job of LPG, which ordinarily wouldn't surprise or bother me but Magnecore make a big play of their leads being the best you can get for LPG and clearly they are not.

Right now I've got a cheap set Commercial Ignition leads on the back two cylinders and they are working fine, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they even last longer than the very expensive Magnecores did.

Only time will tell.

[macdeb]

QBee said:

Never thought I would be jumping to Mac's defence,

[rigga]

ChimpOnGas said:

Shame it came across as terribly sarcastic then, perhaps reconsider your phrasing in future?

And this is the problem with the internet and forum's, the written word sometime can be misconstrued and taken out of context, what one man reads is often different to another, to me also it seemed an honest request for info.
I think sometimes you believe everyone is against your conversion and willing to knock it at every opportunity, this is not the case, and as so many don't know the system, its benefits and limitations, info is always welcome.