Brakes - Help Please

[over_the_hill]

Last weekend I changed my discs and pads all round. I decided to treat myself and went for Red Stuff pads from EBC.
I proudly posted pictures of my handy work in the "What did you do in the garage yesterday?" thread.

It was a late finish last Sunday so I didn't get chance to road test until today. I went out and back down the local DC - about 5 miles - and managed it without braking. Once back on the drive I had a careful feel of the discs. The backs were cold so fine but fronts were decidedly warm.

I jacked it up and gave the front wheels a spin and you could hear the "pad on disc noise"

The pads looked a bit tight in places and seemed to be sticking fast in the caliper so I took them out and ran a file over them where needed so they were a slight;y looser fit in the caliper.

When refitting the caliper I could not get it to fit flush against the carrier and there was a small gap leaving a small section of the slide pin exposed - not good because any dirt or grit in there would stop the caliper sliding.

Removed the caliper and wound the piston in as far as it would go so the caliper could move more freely, refitted it but still the same.

Any ideas on this at all.

Thanks

[s p a c e m a n]

I'm confused, got a photo of them you can upload? Thought there were rubber boots on these..

[kevd]

Hi
You probably need a hundred miles or so to get the new pads bedded in to the discs, and it is not unusual for the pads to to lightly touch the discs when you spin the wheel, also I would expect them to get slightly warm in normal operation. They definitely should not bind too much when you spin the wheel.i fitted Yellow Stuff pads back in the winter and did have to remove some of the paint around the areas where they locate in the carriers so that they had a bit of clearance to move freely.
You should be able to fit the pads with a smear of copper ease grease on the back faces and a little where the pad locates in the carrier, slip the carrier over the pads and screw in the two slider pins, don't forget the spring thing that stops the pads rattling
If you are using existing discs the pad may be sitting high on a ridge that is causing your problem and it needs a little time to bed in
Try putting it all back together carefully then gently do a few miles without braking too heavily then after 10-20 miles you should start to feel the brakes getting better and the pedal getting firmer
Good luck with getting it all back and working, but if you are still not confident that all is OK it would definitely pay to have an expert give it the once over
Kev

[kevd]

Hi
You probably need a hundred miles or so to get the new pads bedded in to the discs, and it is not unusual for the pads to to lightly touch the discs when you spin the wheel, also I would expect them to get slightly warm in normal operation. They definitely should not bind too much when you spin the wheel.i fitted Yellow Stuff pads back in the winter and did have to remove some of the paint around the areas where they locate in the carriers so that they had a bit of clearance to move freely.
You should be able to fit the pads with a smear of copper ease grease on the back faces and a little where the pad locates in the carrier, slip the carrier over the pads and screw in the two slider pins, don't forget the spring thing that stops the pads rattling
If you are using existing discs the pad may be sitting high on a ridge that is causing your problem and it needs a little time to bed in
Try putting it all back together carefully then gently do a few miles without braking too heavily then after 10-20 miles you should start to feel the brakes getting better and the pedal getting firmer
Good luck with getting it all back and working, but if you are still not confident that all is OK it would definitely pay to have an expert give it the once over
Kev

[QBee]

I expect the disk always to be warm/hot after driving. I always assumed it was meant to be like that.

[over_the_hill]

Thanks for the replies so far.

spaceman:
I didn't think to take a photo. I was a bit peed off so just put the wheel back on and stuck it back in the garage.
Might be a bit short on time for the rest of the weekend as well now.

kevd:
Filing the paint off around the edges certainly helped - the pads are not as tight and do move freely now.
I fitted new discs as well so no high points.
I have done brakes on other cars before now so I'm reasonably confident

Typically i couldn't find a picture on the internet either.

Coming from the back out of the wheel arch

The rubber boot sticks out of the back of the caliper.
The slide pin goes through the boot and caliper and screws into the carrier - the opposite face to where the boot sticks out at the back of the the caliper should mate up flush with the carrier but I have a gap here. You can see the slide pin in the gap between the caliper face and the carrier face.
I can't close this up

[over_the_hill]

I think I have realised what is wrong and causing the gap between the caliper and carrier exposing the pin.
There is no concertina bit of rubber between the caliper and carrier - the bit that squashes and expands.
This didn't fall off and get lost and I didn't forget to put it back on - all four of them can't be lost or missing and I doubt if they have perished.

Could I have been driving around since ???? without these - I don't know when the last time the calipers came off.

Can they get compressed/pushed back and stuck inside the caliper ?

[Sardonicus]

The fronts don't have gaiters like the rear and never did they are ATE the rears are Lucas/Girling the fronts will always run hotter they do 75/80% of the braking.

[over_the_hill]

Sardonicus said:

The fronts don't have gaiters like the rear and never did they are ATE the rears are Lucas/Girling the fronts will always run hotter they do 75/80% of the braking.

So perhaps some of the sliding pin should be exposed then

[Pinx]

Over_the_hill, does yours look like this ? This is mine before i took the caliper off today..

If it does then mine is exactly the same, you know there are 2 washers one for each allen bolt, that sandwiches between the bolt and the mounting flange ? You did re-fit these ?

I'm in the process of fittting new discs and pads today, fingers crossed it all go's according to plan

Edited by Pinx on Tuesday 29th July 20:10

[over_the_hill]

Pinx said:

Over_the_hill, does yours look like this ? This is mine before i took the caliper off today..

If it does then mine is exactly the same, you know there are 2 washers one for each allen bolt, that sandwiches between the caliper and the mounting flange ? You did re-fit these ?

I'm in the process of fittting new discs and pads today, fingers crossed it all go's according to plan

Great picture - yes that is exactly how mine looks - there were no washers though.

[Pinx]

That'll be why you can't get it to sit flush then, when refitting they are a bit fiddly and drop out quite easy, someone before you obviously gave up and left them out


I bought all new cross drilled discs and mintex pads and spent most of saturday fitting the fronts, normally it wouls only take a couple of hours to do just the fronts, but they wouldnt bed in properly, they would brake evenly with no wobble but were making one hell of a racket, sounded like i was running on the rivets, looking at the discs after an initial drive, it would seem the pads arent breaking flush with the discs, even though i cleaned, wire brushed and filed everything to within an inch of its life ! I also spoke to a mate who's a mechanic, who said he bets theres fine burs on the cross drill holes acting like a cheese grater. Taking a look at the new rear discs he's right, they look bur free but if you run the back of your hand over them you can feel the rough edges ! In the paper work that came with them it only mentioned degreasing the discs before fitting, nothing about running some emery paper over the face (which is what i will do now) I had the fronts apart twice but plan on doing them again tomorrow evening, hopefully for the last time lol
The paper work that came with the discs said to allow 200 miles for bedding in, but if i had done that i reakon i would of warped the discs from the bad contact with the pad...

[over_the_hill]

Pinx said:

That'll be why you can't get it to sit flush then, when refitting they are a bit fiddly and drop out quite easy, someone before you obviously gave up and left them out

I have those washers - they sit between the carrier bracket and the fixing flange so you have flange-washer-carrier with the hex-head cap bolt (the one in your hand) going through

The gap where the pin is visible will get bigger with time (?) as the discs and pads wear down as there will be more travel in the piston and caliper

If you are still dismantled could you tell me what size the washers are as I will get some spares. Perhaps it needs two washer thickness.

[Pinx]

over_the_hill said:

If you are still dismantled could you tell me what size the washers are as I will get some spares. Perhaps it needs two washer thickness.

Its currently together, but tomorrow when i finish work i'll be having another go at it, so i can take some measurements then for you, whilst i have it apart

[over_the_hill]

Pinx said:

Its currently together, but tomorrow when i finish work i'll be having another go at it, so i can take some measurements then for you, whilst i have it apart

Thanks - I will not be back at it until later in the week so can't measure myself until then. This will save me time as I can get some washers in advance.

[Pinx]

over_the_hill said:

I have those washers - they sit between the carrier bracket and the fixing flange so you have flange-washer-carrier with the hex-head cap bolt (the one in your hand) going through.

It should be cap head of the bolt, split washer, large washer, then through flange and carrier together, if that makes sense. I used a vernier on the large washer its 22mm dia 10mm hole and its 4mm thick, i don't think adding an extra washer will make any difference, i showed my mechanic mate the caliper and he said it looks perfectly normal and is supposed to be like that.
Got my fronts finished tonight just before the rain started, so its just the rears to go now, but i think i'll save it till weekend

Edited by Pinx on Tuesday 29th July 20:31

Edited by Pinx on Tuesday 29th July 20:48

[over_the_hill]

Thanks - I will just make sure there is plenty of grease on the exposed bit of the pin then.