B-road blaster spring rates & bottoming out...
Discussion
Current spring rates are 450lb/375lb which is too stiff for the abysmal roads round here - unless on the motorway, or going at 70...
Want to reduce spring rates to improve the traction and flow over uneven ground - eg. turn the car into a B-road blaster, rather than the track set-up I have.
HOWEVER, don't want the car to be bottoming out - which I have read a few people are having problems with...
The car is not excessively low, but probably a touch lower than others - I can get 2 fingers between each tyre and wheel arch... Don't really want to raise it, as 3 fingers just seems a touch high to my eyes.
Recommendations as per a previous thread seem to be 400/325lb - is this likely to give me what I want? Really want to know more about people's experiences with this set-up re: bottoming out vs the more supple ride...
Thanks,
Dom
Want to reduce spring rates to improve the traction and flow over uneven ground - eg. turn the car into a B-road blaster, rather than the track set-up I have.
HOWEVER, don't want the car to be bottoming out - which I have read a few people are having problems with...
The car is not excessively low, but probably a touch lower than others - I can get 2 fingers between each tyre and wheel arch... Don't really want to raise it, as 3 fingers just seems a touch high to my eyes.
Recommendations as per a previous thread seem to be 400/325lb - is this likely to give me what I want? Really want to know more about people's experiences with this set-up re: bottoming out vs the more supple ride...
Thanks,
Dom
I've been after the same and have come to the conclusion the Lotus type supple ride we seek with good A-B handling and no bottoming out is going to be a real challenge given our appalling road surfaces and the limited travel in the Chimaera suspension.
Handling & ride quality are subjective things, one man's bone shaker is an others perfect handling car and I'm sure this post will attract a few that say the solution is simply to fit Nitrons.
But I've driven a few TVR's with Nitrons and while they did feel more planted they arent in the same world as a Lotus, from A-B a well set up Lotus feels streets ahead in confidence inspiring ride quality.
With the suspension travels as it is on our cars I think the answer could lie in thinking right outside of the box, for example air as a spring medium gives you the unique ability to change spring rates on the fly something you could never do with a coil.
Air suspension has come on a long way in recent years, it's no longer for trucks or low riders but has a place in a far more sporting application if damper rates, bags & pressures are chosen with respect to axle weight and the required end result.
You can see how things have moved on by looking at whats now available, once upon a time it was all separate bags & dampers or helper bags combined with leaf springs.
These days there are a number of well priced air suspension coil over replacements designed specifically with the lighter car using wishbones in mind, and keep in mind unlike a coil or leaf spring air suspension delivers a truly progressive medium which has the potential to deliver a vastly superior ride without compromising handling.
Clearly the quality of the damper will play a big part in getting the best from such a system too, but get everything right and it has the potential to work really well on a Chimaera.
I fully expect the idea will be met with ridicule from the old guard, but think about it.
Progressive & infinitely variable adaptive spring rates could well be the answer
http://www.ridetech.com/store/shockwaves/
Handling & ride quality are subjective things, one man's bone shaker is an others perfect handling car and I'm sure this post will attract a few that say the solution is simply to fit Nitrons.
But I've driven a few TVR's with Nitrons and while they did feel more planted they arent in the same world as a Lotus, from A-B a well set up Lotus feels streets ahead in confidence inspiring ride quality.
With the suspension travels as it is on our cars I think the answer could lie in thinking right outside of the box, for example air as a spring medium gives you the unique ability to change spring rates on the fly something you could never do with a coil.
Air suspension has come on a long way in recent years, it's no longer for trucks or low riders but has a place in a far more sporting application if damper rates, bags & pressures are chosen with respect to axle weight and the required end result.
You can see how things have moved on by looking at whats now available, once upon a time it was all separate bags & dampers or helper bags combined with leaf springs.
These days there are a number of well priced air suspension coil over replacements designed specifically with the lighter car using wishbones in mind, and keep in mind unlike a coil or leaf spring air suspension delivers a truly progressive medium which has the potential to deliver a vastly superior ride without compromising handling.
Clearly the quality of the damper will play a big part in getting the best from such a system too, but get everything right and it has the potential to work really well on a Chimaera.
I fully expect the idea will be met with ridicule from the old guard, but think about it.
Progressive & infinitely variable adaptive spring rates could well be the answer
http://www.ridetech.com/store/shockwaves/
I have the air suspension option on my Audi A8. Utterly awesome. It is the answer, if you can find a way of doing it.
However, I have accidentally discovered a sort of air suspension recently. I fitted some tyres with a lower load rating (the number typically between say 80 and 110 in the tyre description). Still well within safety bounds. The load index can be converted into the load in kg allowed at each corner.
My track tyres are 91 load index. With the front dampers set hard, it's great on track. But unless I soften them off again, I feel every discarded matchstick on the way home.
My newly acquired Federal 595 RS-Rs are a combined road and track tyre, and the fronts are 83 load index, rears 87. On the awful B roads they feel really confidence inspiring with the dampers set hard, but the ride is comfortable.
However, I have accidentally discovered a sort of air suspension recently. I fitted some tyres with a lower load rating (the number typically between say 80 and 110 in the tyre description). Still well within safety bounds. The load index can be converted into the load in kg allowed at each corner.
My track tyres are 91 load index. With the front dampers set hard, it's great on track. But unless I soften them off again, I feel every discarded matchstick on the way home.
My newly acquired Federal 595 RS-Rs are a combined road and track tyre, and the fronts are 83 load index, rears 87. On the awful B roads they feel really confidence inspiring with the dampers set hard, but the ride is comfortable.
Interesting points on the air suspension guys, however I have GGPs and am looking at changing the springs only...
It was your previous reply Peter that suggested I use those spring rates, this now being my likely replacement.
The reason I have posted is in response to reading my last thread on spring rates and a couple of threads, and a couple of people including A900ss have mentioned bottoming out with those springs...
This was what my original set-up used to do (spring rates unknown unfortunately), and the reason I changed the springs in the first place. Just trying to ensure I don't go full circle and find myself back in the original situation again...
Dom
It was your previous reply Peter that suggested I use those spring rates, this now being my likely replacement.
The reason I have posted is in response to reading my last thread on spring rates and a couple of threads, and a couple of people including A900ss have mentioned bottoming out with those springs...
This was what my original set-up used to do (spring rates unknown unfortunately), and the reason I changed the springs in the first place. Just trying to ensure I don't go full circle and find myself back in the original situation again...
Dom
domV8 said:
Interesting points on the air suspension guys, however I have GGPs and am looking at changing the springs only...
It was your previous reply Peter that suggested I use those spring rates, this now being my likely replacement.
The reason I have posted is in response to reading my last thread on spring rates and a couple of threads, and a couple of people including A900ss have mentioned bottoming out with those springs...
This was what my original set-up used to do (spring rates unknown unfortunately), and the reason I changed the springs in the first place. Just trying to ensure I don't go full circle and find myself back in the original situation again...
Dom
Dom, It was your previous reply Peter that suggested I use those spring rates, this now being my likely replacement.
The reason I have posted is in response to reading my last thread on spring rates and a couple of threads, and a couple of people including A900ss have mentioned bottoming out with those springs...
This was what my original set-up used to do (spring rates unknown unfortunately), and the reason I changed the springs in the first place. Just trying to ensure I don't go full circle and find myself back in the original situation again...
Dom
I'm running Protechs which are 325/400 and when first fitted I was bottoming out but it was because I was running the ride height too low.
I now have the Daz 'two finger front, three finger rear' ride height and it doesn't bottom out anymore. I noticed at the recent TITT, when the roads were rough, other Chims were bottoming out at speed. I wasn't.
I think it has a lot to do with the ride height and if you're two fingers all round, I'd seriously recommending trying three fingers at the back (ooh, er Mrs!) for a short while.
Good luck.
Karl.
Edited by A900ss on Wednesday 30th July 18:25
FlipFlopGriff said:
Got 325/400 on the 500 (Griff). Aren't Chimps set up softer?
FFG
I seem to recall reading something way back when that Chims (note the absence of a P) were softer from the factory because they were the 'touring' version of the Griff, hence also the larger boot........FFG
Most planted thing I've driven on the road was a Noble GTO3R, not really any relevance to this thread, but I like remembering it
It was furking awesome. Getting out of it straight into the Chim (admittedly before the Mono's and Geo) was, er, different. And not in a good way 
ChilliWhizz said:
FlipFlopGriff said:
Got 325/400 on the 500 (Griff). Aren't Chimps set up softer?
FFG
I seem to recall reading something way back when that Chims (note the absence of a P) were softer from the factory because they were the 'touring' version of the Griff, hence also the larger boot........FFG
I thought the later Chims had the same suspension rates as the Griffs from the factory and virtually all will now either be on new coilovers or the originally dampers would have been rebuilt.
A900ss said:
And wasn't this only for the first couple of years of production?
I thought the later Chims had the same suspension rates as the Griffs from the factory and virtually all will now either be on new coilovers or the originally dampers would have been rebuilt.
Pretty much this ...later versions from the factory and I would think all aftermarket offerings will market griff and chim the same. I thought the later Chims had the same suspension rates as the Griffs from the factory and virtually all will now either be on new coilovers or the originally dampers would have been rebuilt.
Thanks for the replies guys.
The car does not bottom out any more - that was the reason I took the opportunity to increase the spring rates when I had the dampers rebuilt at the beginning of last year.
The car does not bottom out any more, even at it current ride height.
However, the ride has been transformed into a much more crashy experience around our terrible Bournemouth roads, even with - as Spend says - the dampers slackened right off to almost comical levels.
I feel like the change has come from the spring rate, and therefore want to try another set halfway in between - just wondered if anyone had any problems to report before I committed to 325/400 (it is rear/front, right?)...
Dom
The car does not bottom out any more - that was the reason I took the opportunity to increase the spring rates when I had the dampers rebuilt at the beginning of last year.
The car does not bottom out any more, even at it current ride height.
However, the ride has been transformed into a much more crashy experience around our terrible Bournemouth roads, even with - as Spend says - the dampers slackened right off to almost comical levels.
I feel like the change has come from the spring rate, and therefore want to try another set halfway in between - just wondered if anyone had any problems to report before I committed to 325/400 (it is rear/front, right?)...
Dom
Humour me - what tyres are you on please, make and full size etc description off the sidewall ?
People who complain about crashy rides in daily drivers usually tend to be on low profile elastic bands on over-sized wheels.
When I bought my Audi I bought it on the standard 18 inch wheels. The other one I tried was on 21 inch wheels.....you can imagine the ride
People who complain about crashy rides in daily drivers usually tend to be on low profile elastic bands on over-sized wheels.
When I bought my Audi I bought it on the standard 18 inch wheels. The other one I tried was on 21 inch wheels.....you can imagine the ride
50lb isn't going to make that much difference IMHO... Remember it's force not mass (ie m * a) so weighing your car and matching to springs is not the whole story...
IF when you completely soften the dampers it doesn't begin to feel like a bobbing duck your dampers are probably working as stiffeners instead of dampers so they're basically buggered.
IF when you completely soften the dampers it doesn't begin to feel like a bobbing duck your dampers are probably working as stiffeners instead of dampers so they're basically buggered.
Intrax 1K2 Black Titans with ARC (Anti Roll Control) - like having your cake and eat it. Even lower spring rates than std - 50 kg/cm front, 35 kg/cm rear (Intrax wanted to supply still lower rates when we upgraded to ARC but we declined...) so great traction an predictability in the wet, but with very tightly controlled body movements at any speed. Much, much more confidence inspiring than before (even the Intrax' pre-upgrade). Of course, it steers very differently from a Lotus (more meat, less delicacy) but as for handling/ride balance it's pretty much there. Really chuffed.
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