AEM Wideband Lambda
Discussion
Anyone have one of these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-AEM-Digital-Wideband...
Looking at getting one for the Chimaera prior to splashing out on a new ECU, and this looks like a good way to save over £120 over the Techedge controllers and the AEM's seem to get favourable reviews.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-AEM-Digital-Wideband...
Looking at getting one for the Chimaera prior to splashing out on a new ECU, and this looks like a good way to save over £120 over the Techedge controllers and the AEM's seem to get favourable reviews.
Edited by AceOfHearts on Monday 15th September 16:17
I've got AEM's wifi version with exhaust gas temperatures too, I use my old Ipod Touch to see the information over the local wifi connection it creates inside the car.
Works brilliantly and when you don't want to see the data its as simple as just putting the Ipod Touch away, no permanent ill-matching gauge in the dash required.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/wideband...
Having EGT on each bank has proved an excellent & very useful addition to AFR when tuning.
Works brilliantly and when you don't want to see the data its as simple as just putting the Ipod Touch away, no permanent ill-matching gauge in the dash required.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/wideband...
Having EGT on each bank has proved an excellent & very useful addition to AFR when tuning.
Ive fitted on to my car- the only down side is the LED's around the edge are not that bright so its difficult to read in sunlight with the roof off, but the center display is fine. The plastic Bezel will look pretty horrible in a TVR cabin, although I did manage to take a chrome bezel off a smiths gauge, and then grind down the plastic housing until it fitted- but it was not that easy, and left very little plastic, but it works fine. Steve sprint on the Griff forum put in a black faced analogue gauge in place of the Voltmeter, and even went so far as getting the TVR logo printed onto the face so it looks OEM- its a work of art.
I've checked the readings on my AEM X-Wifi system against two different AFR readers with their own dedicated lambda sensors and it's only ever shown itself to be 100% accurate.
The AEM X-Wifi responds super fast and I'm now sharing the same lambda sensor with my Canems to run closed loop, the Canems ECU & AEM X-Wifi readings again match perfectly.
In summary... every test we've ever done to check what the AEM X-Wifi is showing is correct (and we've done a few) only ever shows the AEM system to be totally 100% spot on.
AEM make reliable & very accurate kit at realistic prices
The AEM X-Wifi responds super fast and I'm now sharing the same lambda sensor with my Canems to run closed loop, the Canems ECU & AEM X-Wifi readings again match perfectly.
In summary... every test we've ever done to check what the AEM X-Wifi is showing is correct (and we've done a few) only ever shows the AEM system to be totally 100% spot on.
AEM make reliable & very accurate kit at realistic prices
ChimpOnGas said:
I've checked the readings on my AEM X-Wifi system against two different AFR readers with their own dedicated lambda sensors and it's only ever shown itself to be 100% accurate.
The AEM X-Wifi responds super fast and I'm now sharing the same lambda sensor with my Canems to run closed loop, the Canems ECU & AEM X-Wifi readings again match perfectly.
In summary... every test we've ever done to check what the AEM X-Wifi is showing is correct (and we've done a few) only ever shows the AEM system to be totally 100% spot on.
AEM make reliable & very accurate kit at realistic prices
Did the guys as LSD supply and fit that?The AEM X-Wifi responds super fast and I'm now sharing the same lambda sensor with my Canems to run closed loop, the Canems ECU & AEM X-Wifi readings again match perfectly.
In summary... every test we've ever done to check what the AEM X-Wifi is showing is correct (and we've done a few) only ever shows the AEM system to be totally 100% spot on.
AEM make reliable & very accurate kit at realistic prices
[quote=j&ms]ChimponGas,Where have you mounted you AEM unit, as I see the kit for your system has a short lambda lead or did you also fit an extender cable.Cheers
[/quote]
The AEM X-Wifi comes with a harness with dedicated multi plugs to make installation super simple, mine is mounted hidden under the dash top which was easy as the unit is not much bigger that a box of fags.
It's hard wired to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlqOQ1TdGQ
Once the X-Wifi is installed all you do is connect your internet enabled device to the network shown as AEM X-Wifi in your internet settings, its just like connecting to any wifi network except there's no password.
Once connected simply open the browser on your wifi enabled device and type in 192.168.3.88 to the address bar.
The data is transmitted wireless and populates the browser based screen template, you can monitor the figures standing up to 100 feet away from the car should you feel this is necessary.
In the car I typically use my IPod touch because its small & convenient, but when the car was on the rolling road I used the bigger screen on my Asus NetBook to follow what was going on from a safe distance and compare the data shown on the main rolling road screen.
As I said above the AEM data exactly matched the very expensive and sophisticated professional AFR reading kit the rolling road operator was using.
I have also sat in passenger seat with my bigger laptop while we did some fine on street open loop mapping, by resizing the browser window & my Canems software window I could view the AEM & Canems live data concurrently and next to each other on the same screen.
Once you've finished viewing the data you simply pack away your wifi enabled device and you're left with a completely standard dash, no unsightly ill-matching gauges and if I want to have another quick peek at those AFRs & EGTs I just get the little IPod Touch out again and the data is visible in seconds.
The AEM X-Wifi also has a useful data logging feature, just download the free AEM software and connect the unit to your laptop via the supplied USB cable.
All in all the AEM X-Wifi has proved to be a brilliant bit of kit, accurate & completely hidden its also been 100% reliable.
All that and you get to see EGT on each bank too, it's amazing to see how a richer mixture can reduce EGT's and how lean you can run the old Rover V8 before the EGTs get too hot.
You can see instantly degree by degree how load affects EGT and with the real time AFR right there on the same screen too you can tune to perfection, especially when the car is on the rollers holding a fixed load site you're working on.
EGT has proved invaluable when tuning for both petrol & LPG, we used EGT to completely debunk the old wives tale that an engine runs hotter on LPG.
The real reason a converted car runs hotter on gas is because the LPG piggyback ECUs used cant do anything with the ignition timing, and if you run petrol ignition timing while burning propane the engine will indeed run hotter.
That's where a two map system like the Canems dual fuel ECU really comes into it's own, you're not only controlling injector duration for optimum AFR between fuel types you're also able to alter the ignition map to maintain optimum timing & peak cylinder pressures between the two different fuels too.
EGT gives you the missing data you need to exploit this unique advantage
And if I was fitting a turbo, I most certainly wouldn't want to be without EGT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpR0VUemOV0
[/quote]
The AEM X-Wifi comes with a harness with dedicated multi plugs to make installation super simple, mine is mounted hidden under the dash top which was easy as the unit is not much bigger that a box of fags.
It's hard wired to:
- A switched 12v live
- A reliable earth
- The lambda sensor (fitted in my ACT Y-piece)
- The two exhaust gas temperature probes (one mounted in each exhaust manifold)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlqOQ1TdGQ
Once the X-Wifi is installed all you do is connect your internet enabled device to the network shown as AEM X-Wifi in your internet settings, its just like connecting to any wifi network except there's no password.
Once connected simply open the browser on your wifi enabled device and type in 192.168.3.88 to the address bar.
The data is transmitted wireless and populates the browser based screen template, you can monitor the figures standing up to 100 feet away from the car should you feel this is necessary.
In the car I typically use my IPod touch because its small & convenient, but when the car was on the rolling road I used the bigger screen on my Asus NetBook to follow what was going on from a safe distance and compare the data shown on the main rolling road screen.
As I said above the AEM data exactly matched the very expensive and sophisticated professional AFR reading kit the rolling road operator was using.
I have also sat in passenger seat with my bigger laptop while we did some fine on street open loop mapping, by resizing the browser window & my Canems software window I could view the AEM & Canems live data concurrently and next to each other on the same screen.
Once you've finished viewing the data you simply pack away your wifi enabled device and you're left with a completely standard dash, no unsightly ill-matching gauges and if I want to have another quick peek at those AFRs & EGTs I just get the little IPod Touch out again and the data is visible in seconds.
The AEM X-Wifi also has a useful data logging feature, just download the free AEM software and connect the unit to your laptop via the supplied USB cable.
All in all the AEM X-Wifi has proved to be a brilliant bit of kit, accurate & completely hidden its also been 100% reliable.
All that and you get to see EGT on each bank too, it's amazing to see how a richer mixture can reduce EGT's and how lean you can run the old Rover V8 before the EGTs get too hot.
You can see instantly degree by degree how load affects EGT and with the real time AFR right there on the same screen too you can tune to perfection, especially when the car is on the rollers holding a fixed load site you're working on.
EGT has proved invaluable when tuning for both petrol & LPG, we used EGT to completely debunk the old wives tale that an engine runs hotter on LPG.
The real reason a converted car runs hotter on gas is because the LPG piggyback ECUs used cant do anything with the ignition timing, and if you run petrol ignition timing while burning propane the engine will indeed run hotter.
That's where a two map system like the Canems dual fuel ECU really comes into it's own, you're not only controlling injector duration for optimum AFR between fuel types you're also able to alter the ignition map to maintain optimum timing & peak cylinder pressures between the two different fuels too.
EGT gives you the missing data you need to exploit this unique advantage
And if I was fitting a turbo, I most certainly wouldn't want to be without EGT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpR0VUemOV0
Thanks for that info I have ordered the kit and here is the link if anyone else is interested.
http://www.xenonuk.co.uk/product/aem-x-wifi-wideba...
The EGTs are also available here if interested luckily I can get them at work.
http://www.xenonuk.co.uk/product/aem-x-wifi-wideba...
The EGTs are also available here if interested luckily I can get them at work.
[quote=j&ms]Thanks for that info I have ordered the kit and here is the link if anyone else is interested.
http://www.xenonuk.co.uk/product/aem-x-wifi-wideba...
The EGTs are also available here if interested luckily I can get them at work.
[/quote]
That's where mine came from, delivery was fast & the seller is a legitimate & honest business.
The AEM X-Wifi works out about £80 more than a traditional hard wired AFR gauge kit, but gives you the option to add EGT at a later date.
That and the fact you don't need to fit an ill-matching gauge in the dash was well worth the extra money for me, just remember you can only view the data if your wifi ready device supports AdHoc networks.
In practice that typically means any Windows laptop or Apple Mac, but if we're talking phones it pretty much limits you to the Iphone or IPod Touch, my Windows phone can not connect to it.
I have an old first gen IPod Touch that I never use so it's new role in life became my AFR & EGT viewer & it works perfectly, if you go on EBay you can buy just such a used IPod Touch for as little as £35.
If you are getting the thermocouple EGT sensors from work you'll also need to work around the fact they won't come with the AEM X-Wifi multi-plug connectors, so hooking them up to the X-Wifi controller box under the dash could prove challenging.
Personally I'd save all that hassle and buy the genuine AEM EGT sensors as they come with a plug & play harness with the correct multi-plugs, and you can be sure their calibration will be correctly matched to the controller so you'll know for sure you're seeing the true temps.
Lambda sensor fitted to ACT Y-Piece:
EGT bung welded in the N/S manifold:
EGT sensor fitted:
X-Wifi in action (light load cruise):
X-Wifi in action part load:
X-Wifi in action at idle in closed loop mode with the IPod Touch charging via the USB connector on my Pure Highway DAB head unit:
You can just see one bank of EGT in the above photo but if you rotate the IPod touch into the portrait position the EGT figures on both banks are shown clearly below the AFR reading, if you just want to see AFR keep the IPod Touch in the landscape position as shown in the above photos.
I'll try and take some photos of my setup in portrait mode so you can see EGT in action on my dual fuel TVR, we've tuned the car so that when you toggle back and forth between petrol & LPG as you drive there is no change to either AFR of EGT.
You simply can not feel the transition between fuel types as you toggle back & forth between them and the car drives super smooth on both fuels with no loss of performance on LPG just the cost equivalent of 45mpg average fuel consumption which is nice
With the Canems duel fuel system the car now drives 100% smoother than it ever did on the Lucas 14CUX system, in fact on LPG its so much better than it ever was on petrol running the 14CUX it's like a different car.
If people think LPG means you lose drivability or performance think again, I challenge anyone to drive my Chimaera on gas back to back with a 14CUX car on petrol, all you'll find is 'Ol Gasbag' is a night & day better & a far smoother drive with zero shunting these cars are typically plagued with.
We've absolutely nailed the AFRs on both fuels using closed loop, and the EGTs never exceed an absolute maximum of 1080 degrees fahrenheit under load on either fuel which is both safe & efficient.
90% of the time the EGTs are well bellow 1000f and both banks consistently run withing 10-15 degrees degrees fahrenheit of each other (unless you have an Magnecor HT lead failure
), which while I only have one lambda sensor demonstrates just how well matched the burn is on each bank.
Enjoy
http://www.xenonuk.co.uk/product/aem-x-wifi-wideba...
The EGTs are also available here if interested luckily I can get them at work.
[/quote]
That's where mine came from, delivery was fast & the seller is a legitimate & honest business.
The AEM X-Wifi works out about £80 more than a traditional hard wired AFR gauge kit, but gives you the option to add EGT at a later date.
That and the fact you don't need to fit an ill-matching gauge in the dash was well worth the extra money for me, just remember you can only view the data if your wifi ready device supports AdHoc networks.
In practice that typically means any Windows laptop or Apple Mac, but if we're talking phones it pretty much limits you to the Iphone or IPod Touch, my Windows phone can not connect to it.
I have an old first gen IPod Touch that I never use so it's new role in life became my AFR & EGT viewer & it works perfectly, if you go on EBay you can buy just such a used IPod Touch for as little as £35.
If you are getting the thermocouple EGT sensors from work you'll also need to work around the fact they won't come with the AEM X-Wifi multi-plug connectors, so hooking them up to the X-Wifi controller box under the dash could prove challenging.
Personally I'd save all that hassle and buy the genuine AEM EGT sensors as they come with a plug & play harness with the correct multi-plugs, and you can be sure their calibration will be correctly matched to the controller so you'll know for sure you're seeing the true temps.
Lambda sensor fitted to ACT Y-Piece:
EGT bung welded in the N/S manifold:
EGT sensor fitted:
X-Wifi in action (light load cruise):
X-Wifi in action part load:
X-Wifi in action at idle in closed loop mode with the IPod Touch charging via the USB connector on my Pure Highway DAB head unit:
You can just see one bank of EGT in the above photo but if you rotate the IPod touch into the portrait position the EGT figures on both banks are shown clearly below the AFR reading, if you just want to see AFR keep the IPod Touch in the landscape position as shown in the above photos.
I'll try and take some photos of my setup in portrait mode so you can see EGT in action on my dual fuel TVR, we've tuned the car so that when you toggle back and forth between petrol & LPG as you drive there is no change to either AFR of EGT.
You simply can not feel the transition between fuel types as you toggle back & forth between them and the car drives super smooth on both fuels with no loss of performance on LPG just the cost equivalent of 45mpg average fuel consumption which is nice
With the Canems duel fuel system the car now drives 100% smoother than it ever did on the Lucas 14CUX system, in fact on LPG its so much better than it ever was on petrol running the 14CUX it's like a different car.
If people think LPG means you lose drivability or performance think again, I challenge anyone to drive my Chimaera on gas back to back with a 14CUX car on petrol, all you'll find is 'Ol Gasbag' is a night & day better & a far smoother drive with zero shunting these cars are typically plagued with.
We've absolutely nailed the AFRs on both fuels using closed loop, and the EGTs never exceed an absolute maximum of 1080 degrees fahrenheit under load on either fuel which is both safe & efficient.
90% of the time the EGTs are well bellow 1000f and both banks consistently run withing 10-15 degrees degrees fahrenheit of each other (unless you have an Magnecor HT lead failure
), which while I only have one lambda sensor demonstrates just how well matched the burn is on each bank.Enjoy
db484bhpv8 said:
How about having all 8 EGTs?
That's exactly what engine developers do these days, its also one of the ways factory technicians map a new car.An F1 car will have 8 EGT sensors which transmits EGT on each cylinder back to the pits in real time as part of the telemetry system.
EGT, AFR & cylinder head temp sensors on each cylinder is whats used and very useful it is too, but its only really of any use with true fully sequential injection systems as this allows extremely accurate individual cylinder tuning.
Even with an aftermarket system like my Canems you'll typically only have a semi sequential system (multi-port fuel injection) where the injectors are fired in banks or groups so individual EGT & AFR by cylinder are more or less pointless.
Having 8 EGT sensors on our cars would show the state of combustion in each cylinder so you could quickly identify a burnt valve or ignition fault, but you couldn't use the data to tune each cylinder.
Proper fully sequential direct injection with an ECU that allows accurate tuning by cylinder is the way forward, as with the latest Corvette gen 5 LT1 engine which is fekkin awesome by the way.
On 'Ol Gasbag' just getting my EGTs between left to right banks within 10-15 degrees of each other under all load conditions on either fuel is a massive success in my mind, having just one lamdba sensor and doing and old school plug colour check on each cylinder is perfectly acceptable too.
The Rover V8 even running our after market engine management systems is a ridiculously crude & out of date thing, but getting it to run at it's best is all part of the fun.
Personally I want one of these running the latest liquid injected LPG systems:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/n...
460hp and the cost equivalent of 50mpg on liquid injected propane.... no problem at all
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 17th September 10:08
I would like 8 EGTs.
If one suddenly runs hot then could it be set up to send a signal and shut down my nitrous system almost instantly?
Its always one of the front 2 that would run lean anyway (the launch g-force actually has a real effect on the fuel and pulls it back whereas the high pressure nitrous is unaffected).
So maybe i would just fit the 2 EGTs on number 1 and 2 primaries.
If one suddenly runs hot then could it be set up to send a signal and shut down my nitrous system almost instantly?
Its always one of the front 2 that would run lean anyway (the launch g-force actually has a real effect on the fuel and pulls it back whereas the high pressure nitrous is unaffected).
So maybe i would just fit the 2 EGTs on number 1 and 2 primaries.
db484bhpv8 said:
I would like 8 EGTs.
If one suddenly runs hot then could it be set up to send a signal and shut down my nitrous system almost instantly?
Its always one of the front 2 that would run lean anyway (the launch g-force actually has a real effect on the fuel and pulls it back whereas the high pressure nitrous is unaffected).
So maybe i would just fit the 2 EGTs on number 1 and 2 primaries.
Sounds like a plan, my guess is something like the AEM Fail Safe could be configured to respond to EGT just as easily as it does AFR or boost.If one suddenly runs hot then could it be set up to send a signal and shut down my nitrous system almost instantly?
Its always one of the front 2 that would run lean anyway (the launch g-force actually has a real effect on the fuel and pulls it back whereas the high pressure nitrous is unaffected).
So maybe i would just fit the 2 EGTs on number 1 and 2 primaries.
All you need is something that says said cylinder is getting above your target temp and an a nitrous controller that can cut the Nos or an ECU that could dump in more petrol in response.
What I can tell you is the changes in EGT on 'Ol Gasbag' are extremely responsive to load & throttle position, in fact when cruising on the flat you can control the EGTs almost degree by degree by making tiny movements on the throttle pedal.
As you know, whats happening in your combustion chambers when things go bad is either too much of the good stuff or more likely too little petrol, it's just like using a cutting torch when you warm the work to cherry red then introduce oxygen in a split second.
Just like the cutting torch slices through steel the lack of fuel means too much oxygen is present in the super hot combustion chamber and the cutting torch effect melts your pistons in a split second.
And here's you're issue, namely speed of response!
Can an EGT fail safe system respond quickly enough?
Can it cut the Nos or dump more fuel in to save the pistons in time?
Two questions you really need answers to before you shell out on EGT sensors.
Have you looked at staged petrol injection?
Its an old 80's idea and largely out of date now petrol injectors are better, but staged injection could have a place for you on the strip.
Essentially all staged injection means is you have a second set of injectors that chime in at a given RPM or load site, but I guess you could trigger them however you wanted.
Lets say you had an 8 channel EGT setup, you could tell a pretty basic board to open up the second set of petrol injectors at a given temperature, to be honest all cylinders would get soaked not just the hot one unless you were able to create a cylinder specific system that is
If you just dump shed loads of fuel into all 8 cylinders you're time will be in the bin as you go up the strip in clouds of black smoke.
But at least it would save the one overly hot piston from going into meltdown.
You're best bet is to understand & completely resolve the origins of your fuel starvation under hard acceleration, for some reason there's a cylinder or two that's not getting fuel for a split second and this is what ultimately needs to be corrected.
Ask yourself what cylinders are typically more prone to meltdown, are they the furthest from the feed to the rail?
What happens to your fuel pressure at meltdown, are you logging this parameter on each run to build up a picture of whats actually happening with FP and it's effects when things go wrong?
Would you benefit from the new breed of electronic fuel pressure regulator system that talks to it's specially paired fuel pump and overdrives it when a rapid spike in fuel pressure is needed?
Have a look at this from FuelLab:
http://fuelab.com/products/performance/fuel-pressu...
For fear of stating the obvious you just need to make sure there's sufficient fuel pressure at the back of each & every one of the 8 injectors when its needed.
If you can ensure this, you'll never melt another piston again.
Keep up the good work, you've achieved so much with your car already reaching the point of 100% Nos reliability is almost certainly not that far away and probably has a pretty simplistic solution.
At that point my money is on you dumping in some more good stuff in an attempt to get a better time and doing another piston in the process.
But hey, isn't pushing the boundaries what you're all about?
You'll never make an omelet without breaking a few eggs
ChimpOnGas said:
You'll never make an omelet without breaking a few eggs
Certainly food for thought 
Just to clarify how the nitrous systems work (i will keep this simple as i am not such a fan of typing as you).
Extra fuel is added independantly of the injection system and fuel rail. A t piece in the fuel line feeds the nitrous fuel solenoids and plumbing meets at 'crossfire' injectors. Ie fuel at 3 bar exits the injector with nitrous blasting through at 950 psi. The object of these injectors is to mix and atomize the fuel and nitrous liquid.
I run 2 seperate systems. On 1 i have 2 crossfires in the plenum flare aiming toward the roof of the plenum front and back. Another is simply a single injector in the elbow just ahead of the throttle.
I believe that at launch on the stip and with acceleration forces the lower pressure heavy fuel is being pulled back in the plenum and therefore allowing the front pots to run weak. My wideband will only show the average result so will look fine from that.
The solution would be a decent direct port system with an injector for each pot in the trumpet base. This is something i need to do i guess. I need to use the NOS injectors as these are jetted individually and therefore will ensure even distribution. When trying to go direct port with the WON systems that are jetted from the solenoid the same problem occurs with fuel distribution getting pulled toward the rear.
To add... i run a Bosch 044 with a 3 bar weber alpha. There is a fuel pressure switch in the system that will signal the nitrous system to cut if the pressure drops below a set level.
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