Hid conversion
Discussion
Seandenyer said:
IJust asked an MOT inspector on my delivery round and he says HID bulbs are legal but you must have headlight washers. Wtf , why???
Thats a very basic interpretation- part of type approval requires washers, as dirt could distort the beam shape, but there again not having the correct reflectors will do the same. Its a real mess.Heres the legal bit:
Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
These LED H4 replacements on a mustang look good but beam pattern is unknown. Looks simpler than HIDs but not sure if they will be legal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjPSn1McKA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjPSn1McKA
IainG said:
These LED H4 replacements on a mustang look good but beam pattern is unknown. Looks simpler than HIDs but not sure if they will be legal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjPSn1McKA
And here's another clip from Lifetime LED that shows the performance of these new LED H4 replacements at night:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjPSn1McKA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjidNFCnYoU
It should be noted both the Mustang ones and the Lifetime LED ones in the clips are already out of date, the ones I've bought are rated 30% brighter.
Even these early versions rated at just 1800 lumens are a clear improvement over regular incandescent H4 halogen bulbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Ohy62oh4A
I can only imagine what my new ones will be like at 3200lm on low beam and 3600lm on high beam
If they don't dazzle oncoming traffic then they should be well worth the £60 I paid, let me do the testing for you when they arrive from China land in a week or so
As soon as I've fully tested them I'll post a full honest review here with a link to where you can buy them.
Winter and the dark nights are coming, it could be the perfect time for us all to upgrade our headlights to these new super bright LEDs.
Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
And here's another clip from Lifetime LED that shows the performance of these new LED H4 replacements at night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjidNFCnYoU
It should be noted both the Mustang ones and the Lifetime LED ones in the clips are already out of date, the ones I've bought are rated 30% brighter.
Even these early versions rated at just 1800 lumens are a clear improvement over regular incandescent H4 halogen bulbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Ohy62oh4A
I can only imagine what my new ones will be like at 3200lm on low beam and 3600lm on high beam
If they don't dazzle oncoming traffic then they should be well worth the £60 I paid, let me do the testing for you when they arrive from China land in a week or so
As soon as I've fully tested them I'll post a full honest review here with a link to where you can buy them.
Winter and the dark nights are coming, it could be the perfect time for us all to upgrade our headlights to these new super bright LEDs.
Dave.
Excellent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjidNFCnYoU
It should be noted both the Mustang ones and the Lifetime LED ones in the clips are already out of date, the ones I've bought are rated 30% brighter.
Even these early versions rated at just 1800 lumens are a clear improvement over regular incandescent H4 halogen bulbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Ohy62oh4A
I can only imagine what my new ones will be like at 3200lm on low beam and 3600lm on high beam
If they don't dazzle oncoming traffic then they should be well worth the £60 I paid, let me do the testing for you when they arrive from China land in a week or so
As soon as I've fully tested them I'll post a full honest review here with a link to where you can buy them.
Winter and the dark nights are coming, it could be the perfect time for us all to upgrade our headlights to these new super bright LEDs.
Dave.
I can't find a link to the mot photo that I've seen before but there's a short image in this video.. http://youtu.be/Y5n38wDe684?t=1m31s
It's an easy test to do too if you buy the kit, fit the hid into one bulb and aim your car at a flat wall. It's not about keeping the cut off low, because the beam pattern is wrong for a reflector the beam scatters all over the road, it's equivalent to driving with a pair of left hand drive headlights and blinding all of the oncoming traffic.
If you want hid in the original headlights, just retrofit projector lenses into the original reflectors. A pair of random second hand projector headlights, cut the projectors out, cut some holes into your reflectors and glue the projectors in. There are loads of websites and youtube videos on retrofitting projectors into headlights.
It's an easy test to do too if you buy the kit, fit the hid into one bulb and aim your car at a flat wall. It's not about keeping the cut off low, because the beam pattern is wrong for a reflector the beam scatters all over the road, it's equivalent to driving with a pair of left hand drive headlights and blinding all of the oncoming traffic.
If you want hid in the original headlights, just retrofit projector lenses into the original reflectors. A pair of random second hand projector headlights, cut the projectors out, cut some holes into your reflectors and glue the projectors in. There are loads of websites and youtube videos on retrofitting projectors into headlights.
Blitz is entirely right ref HID beam, I fitted them in my Mk3 light conversion last year. yes it passed the mot and they set the beam up on a beam setter, however it was evident that the precision of the beam was not very accurate and produced a diffused display, they met the mot beam requirements but did cause occasional dazzle to oncoming drivers.
Since I redesigned the front of the chim earlier this year I will be fitting Mk3 pods again but only with standard lamps, it wont get used at night now so over bright lights wont be a problem
Rich
Since I redesigned the front of the chim earlier this year I will be fitting Mk3 pods again but only with standard lamps, it wont get used at night now so over bright lights wont be a problem
Rich
Now down to £55 a set:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161368482320?_trksid=p20...
Lets see how they work out in the TVR Chimaera silvered reflector and optical lens set up.
Or what I like to call TVR's not so sealed beam units
At least our Bosch reflectors have a dirty great bulb hood to stop light going forward and force it back into the reflector bowl where it belongs, it then goes back forward in a relatively controlled & focused way and finally has to pass through the optically cut lens to ultimately give a pretty precise pattern.
This is actually a trusted well proven design that works very well, assuming that is the reflector bowl silvering isn't corroded as it often is on our cars due to TVR's not so well sealed system
But I'm now thinking with the big bulb hood and proper cut optical lens arrangement any glare/dazzle from these super bright LEDs might actually be well controlled after all
Only time & some proper testing will tell
Here's what I've bought....
As you can see the LED unit is the same length as an incandescent H4 bulb, the light source is placed at the correct distance from the reflector & bulb hood so I'm hoping the HID issue in the diagram below shouldn't be relevant with these LED units.
The only thing that concerns me is the single sided positioning of the LED on the model I bought, I've recently discovered there is another type that has two LEDs one for dip & one on the other side for full beam.
They are in a way much more like a how the elements are positioned in normal incandescent H4 bulb, perhaps I should have bought this type instead
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161368482320?_trksid=p20...
Lets see how they work out in the TVR Chimaera silvered reflector and optical lens set up.
Or what I like to call TVR's not so sealed beam units
At least our Bosch reflectors have a dirty great bulb hood to stop light going forward and force it back into the reflector bowl where it belongs, it then goes back forward in a relatively controlled & focused way and finally has to pass through the optically cut lens to ultimately give a pretty precise pattern.
This is actually a trusted well proven design that works very well, assuming that is the reflector bowl silvering isn't corroded as it often is on our cars due to TVR's not so well sealed system
But I'm now thinking with the big bulb hood and proper cut optical lens arrangement any glare/dazzle from these super bright LEDs might actually be well controlled after all
Only time & some proper testing will tell
Here's what I've bought....
As you can see the LED unit is the same length as an incandescent H4 bulb, the light source is placed at the correct distance from the reflector & bulb hood so I'm hoping the HID issue in the diagram below shouldn't be relevant with these LED units.
The only thing that concerns me is the single sided positioning of the LED on the model I bought, I've recently discovered there is another type that has two LEDs one for dip & one on the other side for full beam.
They are in a way much more like a how the elements are positioned in normal incandescent H4 bulb, perhaps I should have bought this type instead
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 8th October 19:43
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