Toyo T1Rs low rating on Black Circles
Discussion
Just been looking for prices of Toyo T1Rs for my 450, running 15" front and 16" rears.
Black circles have them in stock but list them as having an E rating for wet grip (A being the best), which was surprising. I've always thought the wet grip was one of the best things about these tyres (compared to the SO2s and SO3s anyhow).
The only 205/55/R15 tyre they list as having an A wet-grip rating is the Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance. Those with B ratings are Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse, Yokohama S.Drive and the Falken Ziex ZE-914 Ecorun.
I have never heard of anyone fitting any of these to a Chimaera.
The only 225/50/R16 tyre they list as having an A wet-grip rating is the Dunlop SP Sport 01. B's include Micheling Primacy HP, Yokohama Advan Sport V105, Hancook Ventus Prime 2 K115, Kumho Ecsta SPT KU31.
Again other than maybe the Eagle and the Michelin, not heard of anyone using these.
Has anyone any experience with any of these ?
Reason I am interested in wet grip is I use my car as a daily drive and the Bridgestone SO2/SO3s were disconcerting in any standing water. The T1Rs were nowhere near as good as teh Bridgestones in the dry but were a good compromise.
Black circles have them in stock but list them as having an E rating for wet grip (A being the best), which was surprising. I've always thought the wet grip was one of the best things about these tyres (compared to the SO2s and SO3s anyhow).
The only 205/55/R15 tyre they list as having an A wet-grip rating is the Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance. Those with B ratings are Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse, Yokohama S.Drive and the Falken Ziex ZE-914 Ecorun.
I have never heard of anyone fitting any of these to a Chimaera.
The only 225/50/R16 tyre they list as having an A wet-grip rating is the Dunlop SP Sport 01. B's include Micheling Primacy HP, Yokohama Advan Sport V105, Hancook Ventus Prime 2 K115, Kumho Ecsta SPT KU31.
Again other than maybe the Eagle and the Michelin, not heard of anyone using these.
Has anyone any experience with any of these ?
Reason I am interested in wet grip is I use my car as a daily drive and the Bridgestone SO2/SO3s were disconcerting in any standing water. The T1Rs were nowhere near as good as teh Bridgestones in the dry but were a good compromise.
Hi, I have the Dunlop sp sport on the front and the Toyo's on the rear, I cant really fault them for the dry or the wet. I have spun up the wheels in the wet, but that was probably too much right foot too soon! and it has always gone where i have pointed it apart from as above 
I am sure that others will be along shortly and give you their experiences as well
I am sure that others will be along shortly and give you their experiences as well
Relax, it's just the result of 1 standard wet braking test and about as representative as the NEDC normed fuel consumption test is for real-world mpg.
Every ultra high performance tyre I've sampled so far in the relevant sizes has a 'C' for wet braking (and an 'F' for rolling resistance) at best... all the 'A's and 'B's seem te be for eco- or touring tyres - which says it all really.
Having said that, the Toyos are very old hat now, and the fronts still don't come in a W rating... personally I'd advice going for the Bridgestone RE002 which may not be a high flyer but at least it's a decade newer design, others seem to be quite taken with their Uniroyal Rain Sports which are worth seeking out, too.
Also please consider that even the newest S-03s will probably have a production date that's 7-8 years old (not to mention the S-02s
) - which in all probability accounts for the observed performance deficiencies. When you get your new tyres, you can compare the hardness of the rubber, the ones that just came off (which you're driving on now) will feel like they are made of Nylon in comparison... 
Most Griffs and Chims I see run on rubber that's well past its sell-by date... looking at the production dates, more often than not they are in their second decade. Along with alignment it's the main reason their dirvers are less than satisfied with the grip and handling compared to, say, a newer Porsche or their newish company BMW even.
Every ultra high performance tyre I've sampled so far in the relevant sizes has a 'C' for wet braking (and an 'F' for rolling resistance) at best... all the 'A's and 'B's seem te be for eco- or touring tyres - which says it all really.
Having said that, the Toyos are very old hat now, and the fronts still don't come in a W rating... personally I'd advice going for the Bridgestone RE002 which may not be a high flyer but at least it's a decade newer design, others seem to be quite taken with their Uniroyal Rain Sports which are worth seeking out, too.
Also please consider that even the newest S-03s will probably have a production date that's 7-8 years old (not to mention the S-02s
) - which in all probability accounts for the observed performance deficiencies. When you get your new tyres, you can compare the hardness of the rubber, the ones that just came off (which you're driving on now) will feel like they are made of Nylon in comparison... Most Griffs and Chims I see run on rubber that's well past its sell-by date... looking at the production dates, more often than not they are in their second decade.
Along with alignment it's the main reason their dirvers are less than satisfied with the grip and handling compared to, say, a newer Porsche or their newish company BMW even. taylormj4 said:
Has anyone any experience with any of these ?
Reason I am interested in wet grip is I use my car as a daily drive and the Bridgestone SO2/SO3s were disconcerting in any standing water. The T1Rs were nowhere near as good as teh Bridgestones in the dry but were a good compromise.
Yes I'm on my second set after having covered over 50k miles on them.Reason I am interested in wet grip is I use my car as a daily drive and the Bridgestone SO2/SO3s were disconcerting in any standing water. The T1Rs were nowhere near as good as teh Bridgestones in the dry but were a good compromise.
No better no worse than any other tyre I've used over my 35 year driving life but a good compromise in all areas including wet and dry grip, ride quality, tyre noise, wear and price.
I bought my first set to replace the on the 9 year old, rock hard (with tons of tread left) original S02s. The change in ride handling and grip was astonishing from the car I'd bought.
In my opinion they're excellent tyres and probably the best out there that we can still get in our early '90s rim sizes (I run 16" all round)
Edited by V8 GRF on Friday 10th October 16:47
db484bhpv8 said:
Ive just ordered a full set of Uniroyal Rainsport 3's from Camskill.
Wet rated A and very good prices.
A few people recommended these tyres to me as excellent in the wet but still very good in the dry.
I've been running RS3's on the front for most of this year (T1R's on the rear). Wet rated A and very good prices.
A few people recommended these tyres to me as excellent in the wet but still very good in the dry.
I'm very impressed and when the T1R's need replacing at the back, It will be Uniroyal RS3’s all round.
Good luck
db484bhpv8 said:
macdeb said:
Camskil 
black circles
+1 delivered in 26 hours from the order.black circles
go figure? Took a couple of weeks also
Edited by macdeb on Friday 10th October 17:49
Well from a practical perpective I've used the T1R's on my 500 - they were better in damp than my aging S02's on the front which made for an interesting experience, once a full set was on they have been great.
Very wet laps at high speed around Le Mans circuit - very secure & outperformed my expectations (or was that my driving!) and similarly on motorway around Brussels a couple of years ago when other cars were aquaplaning, despite its light weight they were very planted. In dry good too but not as sharp as say a near slick such as 888.
Interesting your review quote says the Bridgestone Advan as an A rating- I had these on an A6 a few years ago which were awful in the wet & wore out very quickly - so its all subjective.
T1R's on a Chimaera is a good thing IMO - go Camskill (if they still have them)
Very wet laps at high speed around Le Mans circuit - very secure & outperformed my expectations (or was that my driving!) and similarly on motorway around Brussels a couple of years ago when other cars were aquaplaning, despite its light weight they were very planted. In dry good too but not as sharp as say a near slick such as 888.
Interesting your review quote says the Bridgestone Advan as an A rating- I had these on an A6 a few years ago which were awful in the wet & wore out very quickly - so its all subjective.
T1R's on a Chimaera is a good thing IMO - go Camskill (if they still have them)
Hi.
Never heard of such a rating here in Germany.
I realy can recommend the nexxen n8000.
They have realy good grip.especially in the wet. Last year I'd a safety training with a fast as you want(or can) wet circle track.(sorry don't know your word for that) and the instructor was realy suprised how fast my Griffith was. Without that traction control of the other cars.
But the edge of grip and spin is very close.
Dennis
Never heard of such a rating here in Germany.
I realy can recommend the nexxen n8000.
They have realy good grip.especially in the wet. Last year I'd a safety training with a fast as you want(or can) wet circle track.(sorry don't know your word for that) and the instructor was realy suprised how fast my Griffith was. Without that traction control of the other cars.
But the edge of grip and spin is very close.
Dennis
We have T1-Rs on the Griff - and covered 2000 very wet miles over the "summer" up on Scottish roads. Very happy with them, although do need a bit more pressure in them and took a good 500 miles when new to scrub in until they felt comfortable.
A very different car, but I have the Dunlop Sport SP 01s on the my Focus ST (circa 270bhp) and they are great in the wet. Been impressed with dry grip too. Even at full throttle / boost they hook up well in the wet and the dry.
A very different car, but I have the Dunlop Sport SP 01s on the my Focus ST (circa 270bhp) and they are great in the wet. Been impressed with dry grip too. Even at full throttle / boost they hook up well in the wet and the dry.
taylormj4 said:
The only 225/50/R16 tyre they list as having an A wet-grip rating is the Dunlop SP Sport 01. Again ... not heard of anyone using these.
Podie said:
A very different car, but I have the Dunlop Sport SP 01s on the my Focus ST (circa 270bhp) and they are great in the wet. Been impressed with dry grip too. Even at full throttle / boost they hook up well in the wet and the dry.
You may also like to know that the Dunlops were the last tyre to be fitted by the factory (not for new cars)Hi,
I bought my car with the toyo's on it.
I really hate the grip of these tires especially on the front.
replaced the rears with an other manufacturer which really transformed my rear behavior. Much better really good grip. I really am going to replace the fronts as soon as i am able to.
Semi slicks is probably the best option :-)
I bought my car with the toyo's on it.
I really hate the grip of these tires especially on the front.
replaced the rears with an other manufacturer which really transformed my rear behavior. Much better really good grip. I really am going to replace the fronts as soon as i am able to.
Semi slicks is probably the best option :-)
V41LEY said:
The BC calculator comes up with 225/55/15s for the front. I run Toyos 205s.
Is there a right or a wrong for the fronts ?
I assume that's the same RR as a 205/60/15 as per originally fitted to Chims.Is there a right or a wrong for the fronts ?
There are many 'rights' and many more 'wrongs'
What's right for your car will depend on your requirements, what's fitted and how the car was built. The main items will be the shape of your body (varies considerably) how centrally your body is mounted (varies considerably) and the height, stiffness and condition of both your springs and dampers (all of which vary considerably)
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