Patchy headlight beam

Patchy headlight beam

Author
Discussion

SILICONEKID345HP

Original Poster:

14,997 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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The Lupos have been fitted for a while . The beam seems to be in the right place but it is very patchy.

Any ideas ?

A well known member recommended some very expensive bulbs but they are rubbish cheers .


swallet

453 posts

142 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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Well I've found my lupos with nightbreaker a to be excellent on dipped beam. main beam though I do seem to loose some "lateral projection" as it were. I.E the lights shine further but in a narrow cone.


If your problem is light pattern new bulbs won't make a difference, they will just make your existing pattern brighter.


SILICONEKID345HP

Original Poster:

14,997 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
quotequote all
swallet said:
Well I've found my lupos with nightbreaker a to be excellent on dipped beam. main beam though I do seem to loose some "lateral projection" as it were. I.E the lights shine further but in a narrow cone.


If your problem is light pattern new bulbs won't make a difference, they will just make your existing pattern brighter.
They are new so why so rubbish ?



swallet

453 posts

142 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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Are they properly aligned?

Pupp

12,205 posts

271 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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Most likely your eyes Daz; you're getting old smile

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

178 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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Better bulbs will never solve a reflector issue Daz, and if you have a patchy pattern its almost certainly down to a badly formed reflector.

Did you buy genuine Bosch Lupo units or try and save a few quid by buying a cheaper copy?

Its quite tricky to form and shape a reflector correctly in manufacture, so you often find cheaper aftermarket units give a bad and or a patchy pattern, even Valeo who are a well respected after market headlight manufacturer get it wrong sometimes.

I bet if you spend a bit more & buy the the genuine units you'll see an immediate improvement, I believe the Bosch part number is: 31 65143 41214 5

But do check this as that number may well be for left hand drive units scratchchin

Actually when new there was nothing particularly wrong with the performance of the standard Bosch reflector and lens setup used by TVR, except being two separate components it's effectively TVRs own iffy attempt at a sealed beam unit with Sikaflex used as the seal rolleyes

Inevitably water enters & condensation forms on the reflector which soon tarnishes depleting its performance, fit new reflectors and they work really well again especially with the better performing H4 bulbs available now.

Unfortunately the original Bosch reflectors are expensive these days (if you can find a set) and the silvering will soon corrode again leaving you back to square one, what we really need is proper H4 (factory) sealed beam units which are cheap and readily available.

However to fit such units you would need to fabricate a means of adjusting them.

I'm surprised nobody has come up with a kit so you can fit and adjust the cheap & effective sealed beam halogen H4 units in a Chimaera. You do see these units used when certain specialists fit their faired headlight conversions, but I've never seen them fitted under the standard headlight cowls.

What we really need is a cost effective H4 sealed beam conversion kit with adjusters that fits under the standard headlight cowls, the result would look 100% standard but would solve the expensive & corrosion prone separate reflector problem.

I would have thought it wouldn't be that difficult to adapt one of the H4 halogen sealed beam conversion kits sold to the classic car fraternity, these come with the outer adjuster bowls that the sealed beam units then mount to so you can set your beams perfectly.

Once such a kit had been fitted you could simply swap out the one piece "sealed in the factory" lens & reflector units every few years when they get tired, for example you can buy excellent quality Hella sealed beam units for as little as £40 a pair if you know where to look.

Here's one of the classic car kits that for just £60 comes complete with everything you need including the two essential outer adjuster bowls seen at the top of the image.



Once these adjuster bowls had been securely mounted to the inner wing apertures you would simply mount your H4 sealed units to them then make your adjustment on a beam setter.

To complete the job pop your original TVR cowls on to give a totally original look.

Surely it can't be that hard to securely fit adjuster bowls to a Chimaera, or am I missing something here confused

NZ fan

310 posts

133 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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I have done pretty much what you are suggesting Chimpongas but there are a couple of problems. Firstly the sealed beam units are 7" where as the TVR ones are 7.5" so there is a gap between sealed beam unit and cowl and secondly the TVR lens is actually sloping back quite a lot not parallel to the reflector so with the lights set correctly you have a big gap between lens and cowl at the bottom. What I have done is to set the sealed beam units back where the original reflectors where and then sealed the original TVR lens over the top so I have the light going through two lenses. Not ideal theoretically but the pattern is good on a beam setter and it passes inspection every time. I will try and get a clear photo tomorrow. I don't mind the look of the lupo lights but just couldn't bring myself to altering the car. These things are a bit rare over here in New Zealand.

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

178 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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NZ fan said:
I have done pretty much what you are suggesting Chimpongas but there are a couple of problems. Firstly the sealed beam units are 7" where as the TVR ones are 7.5" so there is a gap between sealed beam unit and cowl and secondly the TVR lens is actually sloping back quite a lot not parallel to the reflector so with the lights set correctly you have a big gap between lens and cowl at the bottom. What I have done is to set the sealed beam units back where the original reflectors where and then sealed the original TVR lens over the top so I have the light going through two lenses. Not ideal theoretically but the pattern is good on a beam setter and it passes inspection every time. I will try and get a clear photo tomorrow. I don't mind the look of the lupo lights but just couldn't bring myself to altering the car. These things are a bit rare over here in New Zealand.
Thanks for that NZ Fan thumbup

What you have sounds interesting, TBH I didn't realise the TVR units were 7.5" but it now makes sense why nobody has defaulted to the cheap, effective & ubiquitous 7" sealed units before.

As you point out the double lens arrangement you've got is less than ideal, but it's good to know your setup is working well.

Perhaps the solution would be for someone to make a replica TVR headlight cowl to suit the readily available 7" sealed beam units?

Perhaps Julian from Fibreon could make some up, he makes the standard ones already so must have a mold.

http://www.damagedtvrs.co.uk/products/part/74

Fiberon are half way there already, he just needs reduce the headlight aperture to 7" and make sure the angle of the cowl edge follows the new 7" sealed unit with no gaps.

The initial outlay would probably work out a the same as fitting Lupo lights but what you'll achieve is effective, cheap to replace, and readily available headlights for ever!

And unlike the Lupo lights the 7" mod would look completely original as I very much doubt you'd ever spot the half inch diameter difference assuming the cowls have been made nicely and fit the lens well.

Glass in the adjuster bowls, fit your new 7" sealed beam units to them, adjust the beams then fit the modified cowl over the lot for a 100% original look with no gaps.

I made that sound easy didn't I whistle

SILICONEKID345HP

Original Poster:

14,997 posts

230 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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ChimpOnGas said:
And unlike the Lupo lights the 7" mod would look completely original as I very much doubt you'd ever spot the half inch diameter difference assuming the cowls have been made nicely and fit the lens well.
Don't think it would look at all original because the glass would be vertical and very old fashioned, would not "flow" at all with the body lines like the original lights or Lupo's scratchchin

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

178 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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phillpot said:
Don't think it would look at all original because the glass would be vertical and very old fashioned, would not "flow" at all with the body lines like the original lights or Lupo's scratchchin
sorry Phillpot but I can only assume you're not familiar with the 7" sealed beam units I'm referring to.

Both our Bosch lens and the lens on a 7" sealed beam unit look exactly the same, that's because they work on exactly the same principle of a silvered reflector throwing light through an engraved lens.

Its this engraving in the lens that creates and controls the beam pattern. The Bosch lens we have is as old fashioned as a sealed beam lens and visa versa because they are both using the old fashioned silvered reflector and engraved lens system, its just the sealed beam units are 7" and as NZFan kindly pointed out our Bosch lens is just half an inch bigger.

If the headlight cowls were made to suit you just wouldn't notice the half inch diameter difference, and the sloping angle mentioned is very slight if you look at it, again if the cowls were made to suit you simply wouldn't notice the difference.

The only reason it seems NZFan didn't do as I've suggested was that understandably the 7" sealed beam units looked a bit gappy around the original cowl, a cowl to suit would again solve this in a stroke.

Fit Lupo lights by all means but for me the Chimaera was conceived as a modern interpretation of a traditional 1960 's classic, as soon as you start trying to modernize its aesthetics you end up with a muddled mess.

NZ fan

310 posts

133 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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For what it's worth this is a shot of one of my lights ie. 7" sealed beams in behind the factory 7.5" TVR lens. I have a tapered stainless sleeve in between the two, you can sort of see the angle difference.

phillpot

17,105 posts

182 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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ChimpOnGas said:
sorry Phillpot but I can only assume you're not familiar with the 7" sealed beam units I'm referring to.
Standard 7" unit as fitted to literally hundreds of earlier cars, including my S Series and Taimar?

The original Chimaera lens, as you say, leans backwards a little, not a lot but I think the difference would stand out a mile (and look all wrong).


But, go for it, do it, prove me wrong! smile







Edited by phillpot on Thursday 16th October 09:10

Adrian@

4,289 posts

281 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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How does a 7" sealed beam with it's own glass reflector THEN reflected through the TVR lens ever work? Whereas a 7" spot light and I can see sense in it but....
Adrian@

Says, a man with Lupo lights on his Chimaera that perhaps has not been used in the dark and so I cannot really help the OP..I WILL try it later!!



Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 16th October 09:33

Tyre Tread

10,525 posts

215 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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As well as the Chim I have a Rover P5B and that uses the same 7" headlight units used by most cars of that era (60/70's).

I have been talking to Steve Edwards as I like the faired in lights and the idea of upgraded lights to move away from the Chim separate lens and reflector but would like the mod to be reversible if needed at a later date, something you can do with the faired in lights but not with the Lupo conversion

To that end I remembered that stuck away in the garage I have some spare 7" headlight units for the rover and some mounting cups I took from a spares car I scrapped.

I did a mock up just placing the 7” light in the n/s headlight aperture just to see how much difference it makes



Not the best of pics but it shows that there is only a very minor gap around the light which could be easily deal with especially on faired in lights.

The challenge would be making the lights adjustable from behind in the wheel arch hatch.

I'll post some pics of the parts later

Adrian@

4,289 posts

281 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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I thought that the faired in head lamp is an OE conversion to allow use of the 7" headlamp...I might be wrong here, I also thought that the 500SE's had the 7" too.
Adrian@
I cannot see an issue with my Lupo lights at night, they seem so much better than the TVR lens/reflectors (which were new a year or so before the conversion).
Adrian@

db484bhpv8

8,655 posts

219 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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Which bulb do the Lupos have as standard?
I was unimpressed with mine this morning.
So i want to fit upgraded bulbs. Any recommendations?

SILICONEKID345HP

Original Poster:

14,997 posts

230 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
db484bhpv8 said:
Which bulb do the Lupos have as standard?
I was unimpressed with mine this morning.
So i want to fit upgraded bulbs. Any recommendations?
Is the beam patchy ? Think this thread got side tracked with the 7" conversion .

I`m not impressed with mine ,I have some expensive one`s which Dave recommended ,but probabaley nothing to do with the patchy beam .

Goaty Bill 2

3,393 posts

118 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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I know it's unlikely to be a popular statement in this thread, and not quite on topic (sorry Daz); but my originals (now renewed) have always been fantastic.

But a reminder; TVR (to the best of my knowledge) did not supply 50/80 bulbs (except maybe on earlier cars?), and more to the point, neither do TVR parts dealers today. They are always 80/100.

I have never failed an MOT because of them, or had them questioned by the tester, nor by the BiB on our (thankfully very rare) interactions over the years.

I know they are pricey, but then so are may of the other options, and when it goes wrong it costs even more.

Hope you can fix it Daz. Bad headlights on any car are a pain, but when you are being dragged down a bleak, dark country lane on a roaring dustbin lid, it can be disconcerting in the extreme.

phazed

21,844 posts

203 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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db484bhpv8 said:
Which bulb do the Lupos have as standard?
I was unimpressed with mine this morning.
So i want to fit upgraded bulbs. Any recommendations?
Spoke to the guy who bought my 4.6 last week.

He had just returned from a tour of the Lake District. Apart from commenting, (tongue firmly in cheek) that it didn't break down, he said the lights were fantastic. He did come from an MG TF though.........